Calling ALL Posters

[Mike]

I have had problems with certain users. I engage them in debate. If I don't like the way they respond to my opinions, I engage further. If it's getting aggravating to me, I just move along. I don't ask for anyone to do anything about them unless I feel they've violated a forum rule. In that case, I report the post to the other mods, explain why I think it was worth a warning/infraction and then I move on. My role as a mod is different than a user's. As a user, your option on the forum if you think a poster is over the line is to report those posts and let us deal with them. Pete, like every other mod, has had posts reported by users. Not many though. Certainly not as many as you would think if this was some sort of great problem that a ton of members had. As you've said, you've brought him up to us previously. Yet nothing that gets brought up has been him violating forum rules. At worst, he may seem hostile at times. We all are when we're defending positions we feel strongly about.

 

It seems to me, there are some people here that don't like debating with Pete. They claim it's because he's breaking forum rules and not getting punished for that, yet we repeatedly ask for posts where he breaks forum rules and then we hear crickets. Here's someone you're claiming a lot of people have a problem with, yet we're not getting that feedback through the one system we're practically begging you to use if you have an issue. We want you to use that feature because we try to treat every user, mod or otherwise, exactly the same. And the first step of that process is examining the post in question.

 

And because I have no evidence, the only conclusion I can come up with is that some people don't like to have their posts challenged the way Pete does. While I can understand that may be frustrating, it's the purpose of the forums. The owner of the forum wants unfettered debate within the rules he's set forth and we've all agreed to. What I'm hearing from you is that you don't want someone constantly challenging your posts. I'm not sure this forum is for you, if that's the case. It's the one thing I very much doubt we'll see changing.

 

From what I've seen, a few users get into really heated discussions on topic with Pete, then get frustrated and lash out at him. Then when they get warned or infacted, they say it's special treatment or persecution. What I've seen, looking through history of reported posts and infractions isn't Pete baiting others. I see him debating very strongly and then others baiting him, often by making posts about him, the person, instead of his posts. So they are the ones violating forum rules.

 

As to the claim that us mods are friends with him so we're ignoring when he crosses the line, it flat out doesn't happen. In fact, I'd guess that especially Phil and I have had the same exact heated conversations with him as you have. The only difference is, we don't lash out at him, the user, when we get frustrated the way some other users have who have received warnings/infractions. And realize, as I mentioned earlier, we're talking like a total of 25 warnings/infractions total on the entire forum over the course of a year. So unless that was all directed at 2 or 3 users, it's hard to make a case for persecution.

 

We've had discussions a few times over Pete because of a few users here having this same strong feeling you have. We've watched his interactions with them, we, him included, have questioned if he's violating any forum rules. Pete has come to us about this because he doesn't want to make our jobs more difficult. We've yet to find situations where he's broken forum rules, though. And since no else can either via reporting posts, I'm not sure what is expected for us to do. He's not the only one. We have other users on the forum who this happens with. When they or anyone break rules, we deal with that. Other than that, it's personality or posting style clashes. And we won't moderate that. It's not our place.

 

To summarize:

People don't like losing every debate to Pete, who comes off like a dick but really isn't.

 

Solution: Pete becomes a civilian so those who dislike him can put him on ignore, OR just do what I do .... Text him privately and tell him to fuck off. It cleanses the soul. We give a thumbs up and move on.

[RichieNextel305]

If you guys want to simply say he doesn't break forum rules and that we don't like debating, that's fine.

 

He baits and baits and then when someone goes off on him, they're breaking forum rules and he isn't.

 

This is a problem guys. People are trying to tell you why they don't post here, but again, it just seems like it's being deflected like usual, unfortunately.

 

The guy is just untouchable. You have a forum that has dropped rapidly in months, partially due to him. And you have forum members asking what the problem is, and other forum members are trying to tell you the problem. Yet it still seems like it's falling on deaf ears.

 

Whatever, I guess. I've tried to tell you.

[SaveByRichter35]

I see smoke. I smell something burning...

[Patrick Bateman]

I think Peetie, Phil, Ray, Mikey, and AJ should make a podcast or something

[Mike]

I think Peetie, Phil, Ray, Mikey, and AJ should make a podcast or something

 

What about you?

[Patrick Bateman]

I wouldn't have anything to add

[Mike]

I wouldn't have anything to add

 

Sure you do. You can fill in my spot when I'm at practice and games.

[The Dude]

This bold is gold... I need to rep other users before I rep Mikey.

 

If you need to throw an insult, throw it at yourself.... 'I must be a f...ing idiot' or 'What the hell was I thinking'. Therefore, you are directing the attack at yourself, instead of another user.

 

Analyze and criticize the opinion of other users, don't make fun of the user.

 

That's a good loophole.

[Mike]

If you guys want to simply say he doesn't break forum rules and that we don't like debating, that's fine.

 

He baits and baits and then when someone goes off on him, they're breaking forum rules and he isn't.

 

This is a problem guys. People are trying to tell you why they don't post here, but again, it just seems like it's being deflected like usual, unfortunately.

 

The guy is just untouchable. You have a forum that has dropped rapidly in months, partially due to him. And you have forum members asking what the problem is, and other forum members are trying to tell you the problem. Yet it still seems like it's falling on deaf ears.

 

Whatever, I guess. I've tried to tell you.

 

I see smoke. I smell something burning...

 

There are people that value everyone as posters here. Not everyone gets along, and imo that's ok. That's the way the world works. Just because certain people don't like others shouldn't result in people not posting anymore. Yes, it's easier said than done, but just try to ignore people and posts that might bother you, and not just from Pete. Will I do that? Probably not, but no one is going to stop me from posting just because I think they're an asshole. I mean, I'm still here now, right ? And just because I think someone is an asshole doesn't mean that they're not valuable to the forum. We need everyone involved and have to understand how valuable they all are to make this place work.

[The Dude]

Im not friends with half the board outside of here, but I know which posters have the inside track. Mikey and Puck are the two most connected on the board from what I have read over the years to the sport. Usually what they say is pretty spot on, that doesn't mean though that they are right every time and it isOK to disagree with them. I wouldn't know either one of them if we were the only ones in a room, but I know here who they are and that they are very knowledgable about the game and behind the scenes.

 

How did you find this out though? When it was brought to my attention, it was told to me, like I should know. I wasn't around for any topic that describes these people as having an insider, and the thought remains that everybody should know the whole back story.

 

The attitude brought forth was snobby and rude, because I had no idea who Mike was. I still kinda don't... Except that he's well received here and his word is trusted by the main people around here. That's all I need to know, because no matter how snotty and uptight of twat bags some people are here (being sarcastic folks relax), they know what they're talking about and I respect that. It's just the attitude some give off. The arrogance. It can be a put off to some. I think some people at times can take themselves too seriously. Maybe that's MY problem. Maybe I'm not a total fit for this place, because I don't take myself too seriously and that's could be an issue for some. I'm not living or dying to prove someone wrong, but I'll try, if I disagree enough.

[The Dude]

He doesn't get an infraction but he still is intentionally being a dick which I don't think is necessary. Just as was said by someone else earlier, he's basically the reason I don't post here anymore. I don't care about infractions, I don't think I've ever gotten one. I don't have any issues with political threads, or analytics or anything else. I simply don't see the point in going through the aggravation of contributing to this place if dealing with him attacking everything I say is the cost.

 

Am I to chime in on Pete? Obviously we butt heads a lot. Do I want to open this can of worms of my opinion? Should I? We have has peace for a few months now.

[The Dude]

Actually, I did know that. We've had that conversation before, probably over a year ago. Does that make you a legend of the steamfitting outfit, or is it me just paying attention?

 

Lol I'm sure that when I post, it's the first thing that pops in your head. Had I not mentioned it, I doubt you remember me as the steam fitter guy. The legend thing was a joke. Sorry if you took offense to it. Was really in jest.

[Vodka Drunkenski]

Lol I'm sure that when I post, it's the first thing that pops in your head. Had I not mentioned it, I doubt you remember me as the steam fitter guy. The legend thing was a joke. Sorry if you took offense to it. Was really in jest.

 

Not sure about Mike but your avatar reminds me every time.

 

 

LGR

[SaveByRichter35]

There are people that value everyone as posters here. Not everyone gets along, and imo that's ok. That's the way the world works. Just because certain people don't like others shouldn't result in people not posting anymore. Yes, it's easier said than done, but just try to ignore people and posts that might bother you, and not just from Pete. Will I do that? Probably not, but no one is going to stop me from posting just because I think they're an asshole. I mean, I'm still here now, right ? And just because I think someone is an asshole doesn't mean that they're not valuable to the forum. We need everyone involved and have to understand how valuable they all are to make this place work.

 

I never said I wanted anyone in particular to stop posting. I do enjoy a lot of user's posts because they're so thorough. I just do not enjoy the way, or the perception that is left open, that some posters get away with more than others. Whether it is actually true or completely false. Whether it is because some know the rules in and out down to the very last period and know when to stop while others have a simple understanding of the rules and maybe don't know when to stop. There is obviously enough people seeing it that way so maybe there isn't enough being done to at least eliminate the perception that it is happening.

[NYR2711]

If you guys want to simply say he doesn't break forum rules and that we don't like debating, that's fine.

 

He baits and baits and then when someone goes off on him, they're breaking forum rules and he isn't.

 

This is a problem guys. People are trying to tell you why they don't post here, but again, it just seems like it's being deflected like usual, unfortunately.

 

The guy is just untouchable. You have a forum that has dropped rapidly in months, partially due to him. And you have forum members asking what the problem is, and other forum members are trying to tell you the problem. Yet it still seems like it's falling on deaf ears.

 

Whatever, I guess. I've tried to tell you.

 

Have to agree here. Multiple people are saying the same thing, it's not just 1 or 2 people saying it. I read it the same way Richie is, that we are the problem, not the other way around.

[NYR2711]

How did you find this out though? When it was brought to my attention, it was told to me, like I should know. I wasn't around for any topic that describes these people as having an insider, and the thought remains that everybody should know the whole back story.

 

The attitude brought forth was snobby and rude, because I had no idea who Mike was. I still kinda don't... Except that he's well received here and his word is trusted by the main people around here. That's all I need to know, because no matter how snotty and uptight of twat bags some people are here (being sarcastic folks relax), they know what they're talking about and I respect that. It's just the attitude some give off. The arrogance. It can be a put off to some. I think some people at times can take themselves too seriously. Maybe that's MY problem. Maybe I'm not a total fit for this place, because I don't take myself too seriously and that's could be an issue for some. I'm not living or dying to prove someone wrong, but I'll try, if I disagree enough.

 

I found out just by reading different threads and seeing what they had to say, and in regards to Mikey and his source, when he was saying things and they would come out a day or 2 later, that was good enough for me to believe in his sources. Puck has told so many stories that you can just tell that he knows the game. And I don't think either of them would be pissed at anyone if the messaged them asking respectfully what their background is or anything like that. Both are approachable and knowledgeable guys, and I have asked both questions regarding something I was confused about or didn't know, and both had no issue answering it for me.

[NYR2711]

There are people that value everyone as posters here. Not everyone gets along, and imo that's ok. That's the way the world works. Just because certain people don't like others shouldn't result in people not posting anymore. Yes, it's easier said than done, but just try to ignore people and posts that might bother you, and not just from Pete. Will I do that? Probably not, but no one is going to stop me from posting just because I think they're an asshole. I mean, I'm still here now, right ? And just because I think someone is an asshole doesn't mean that they're not valuable to the forum. We need everyone involved and have to understand how valuable they all are to make this place work.

 

I don't want to see any posters forced to leave unless they truly are a problem, but I think some people need to be a little more respectful and not goad anyone into going too far. There needs to be debates, but when you start talking down to someone, as an adult and man, I know I don't want to be treated like that, and I don't think anyone else does either. No need to act like a know it all on every conversation or when someone asks you to not be so nasty to them, maybe stop and think and see what your doing, don't just say your not. That's my issue. I don't care if anyone agrees with me or doesn't like me, just don't treat me like I'm your kid or with disrespect.

[Phil]

The problem is, as Dave has illustrated a few times now, you guys are basically saying you feel this way. We can't work with feelings. We can only work with facts.

 

You're failing to prove any of this, or to give any of us something to actually work with. You're saying "I feel like Pete starts fights." We say, "OK, can you show us an example of where this happened? We need more than your claim to work on a solution." You then respond with "I'm telling you. Pete starts fights". And then you get frustrated that we aren't doing anything? How can we? You just keep repeating the claim. That's not enough.

 

This isn't an us-versus-them situation. It's not the Staff versus all of you. It's an issue you are claiming exists but are failing to actually prove exists, and the burden of proof in this case is on you. Not on us to prove it's not true, even though we've done exactly that in every instance where users have agreed to release their disciplinary history.

 

So I'll ask again — Richie, CCCP, etc. Anyone who is especially upset by this. Do we have your permission to release your disciplinary history?

[The Dude]

The problem is, as Dave has illustrated a few times now, you guys are basically saying you feel this way. You're failing, at every step, to prove any of this, or to give any of us something to actually work with. You're saying "I feel like Pete starts fights." We say, "OK, can you show us an example of where this happened? We need more than just your actual claim to work on a solution." You then respond with "I'm telling you. Pete starts fights".

 

This isn't an us-versus-them situation. It's not the Staff verus all of you. It's an issue you all are claiming exists but are failing to actually prove exists, and the burden of proof in this case is on you. Not on us to prove it's not true, even though we've done exactly that in every instance where users have agreed to release their disciplinary history.

 

I guess I gotta throw my 2 cents in...

 

There are recent examples in the Kaepernick thread.

 

He seems to decide when an issue is dead, off topic or he just decided to say stop or else when he gets pushed back. It's in the Kaepernick thread. Read any response to me from him.

 

It's written in here that he knows how to walk the line. Walking the line while having the power to make threats of warnings and infractions, as he does, isnt exactly fair. If he decides mid thread that he doesn't like where the thread has gone (impart due to him being wrong) will throw the threat out there that you are off topic, and God forbid a non mod tells HIM he's off topic. As if it's an insult to tell a mod they aren't following the rules. I'm pretty sure I was infracted once for doing so.

 

I will totally admit to being one of the people who report his posts, when I feel he's out of line. It's baby shit taddle tailing, but it's the only way to get the point across to the other mods. Point out the problem you have with his posts. Because he damn well is doing it to you.

 

I've had good experiences by talking to most of the mods, yet oddly weird ones with others. Kinda abuse of power stuff that was settled when Phil was contacted by pm.

[Mike]

If you guys want to simply say he doesn't break forum rules and that we don't like debating, that's fine.

 

He baits and baits and then when someone goes off on him, they're breaking forum rules and he isn't.

 

This is a problem guys. People are trying to tell you why they don't post here, but again, it just seems like it's being deflected like usual, unfortunately.

 

The guy is just untouchable. You have a forum that has dropped rapidly in months, partially due to him. And you have forum members asking what the problem is, and other forum members are trying to tell you the problem. Yet it still seems like it's falling on deaf ears.

 

Whatever, I guess. I've tried to tell you.

 

How did you find this out though? When it was brought to my attention, it was told to me, like I should know. I wasn't around for any topic that describes these people as having an insider, and the thought remains that everybody should know the whole back story.

 

The attitude brought forth was snobby and rude, because I had no idea who Mike was. I still kinda don't... Except that he's well received here and his word is trusted by the main people around here. That's all I need to know, because no matter how snotty and uptight of twat bags some people are here (being sarcastic folks relax), they know what they're talking about and I respect that. It's just the attitude some give off. The arrogance. It can be a put off to some. I think some people at times can take themselves too seriously. Maybe that's MY problem. Maybe I'm not a total fit for this place, because I don't take myself too seriously and that's could be an issue for some. I'm not living or dying to prove someone wrong, but I'll try, if I disagree enough.

 

I think you're exaggerating a little. Maybe it was just a misunderstanding. People might have assumed that you've been here long enough. You've made a presence here. Not really a big deal.

[Mike]

I never said I wanted anyone in particular to stop posting. I do enjoy a lot of user's posts because they're so thorough. I just do not enjoy the way, or the perception that is left open, that some posters get away with more than others. Whether it is actually true or completely false. Whether it is because some know the rules in and out down to the very last period and know when to stop while others have a simple understanding of the rules and maybe don't know when to stop. There is obviously enough people seeing it that way so maybe there isn't enough being done to at least eliminate the perception that it is happening.

 

The rules are simple. Lets not make it into some cloak and dagger stuff where 1 guy knows how to side step land mines better than the other.

[Mike]

Have to agree here. Multiple people are saying the same thing, it's not just 1 or 2 people saying it. I read it the same way Richie is, that we are the problem, not the other way around.

 

I'm not reading it as anyone is the problem. I'm reading it as people can't get along and they think 1 person is breaking rules and getting favoritism when that's not actually the case. I'm not saying arguing with Pete is easy and smooth, because it's not. Look at this way, he's the Sean Avery of the forum.

[Phil]

I guess I gotta throw my 2 cents in...

 

There are recent examples in the Kaepernick thread.

 

He seems to decide when an issue is dead, off topic or he just decided to say stop or else when he gets pushed back. It's in the Kaepernick thread. Read any response to me from him.

 

It's written in here that he knows how to walk the line. Walking the line while having the power to make threats of warnings and infractions, as he does, isnt exactly fair. If he decides mid thread that he doesn't like where the thread has gone (impart due to him being wrong) will throw the threat out there that you are off topic, and God forbid a non mod tells HIM he's off topic. As if it's an insult to tell a mod they aren't following the rules. I'm pretty sure I was infracted once for doing so.

 

I will totally admit to being one of the people who report his posts, when I feel he's out of line. It's baby shit taddle tailing, but it's the only way to get the point across to the other mods. Point out the problem you have with his posts. Because he damn well is doing it to you.

 

I've had good experiences by talking to most of the mods, yet oddly weird ones with others. Kinda abuse of power stuff that was settled when Phil was contacted by pm.

 

Re-read what I said about burden of proof. Provide me with actual proof, please. Find the posts you feel he's actually broken rules in. Post them here. I'm not doing your work for you.

 

Again, you guys just keep repeating the claim. I want the actual evidence so I can work with it.

[RichieNextel305]

Phil, no offense, but the proof is here. You have board members, multiple ones, that once contributed on a more frequent basis telling you why they lurk now more than post.

 

If you want to release my disciplinary history, that's fine. 99% of it is inappropriate language, and I'm sure some are me going after the bait in some posts.

 

But again, it's starting to feel like banging heads against the wall in this post, which is sadly why some have stopped contributing as much as they had.

[Phil]

No, the claims are here. The number of people who believe something (no matter how large) doesn't make it true (or false). Facts do. There are thousands of people who believe the earth is flat. They're not right, no matter how many members they may have.

 

But thank you for allowing us to utilize your records. It'll help, I hope, in dispelling this. And rest assured it's not being used to embarrass you. Anything not relevant to the issue at hand won't be released becuase it's of no use.