Calling ALL Posters

[Mike]

Invite Bretzky back. That'll pick the pace up.

[phillyb]

He'd have a fucking field day with this roster and trade ideas.

[Future]

#makeBSBHgreatagain

[fletch]

Also true.

 

Forums are more long form, which is diametrically opposed to most online communication today. We tend to suggest in 140 characters or less. Not 1,400 plus.

 

 

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I wish some blueshirt brotherhood users were limited to 140 characters or less. ;)

 

But I do enjoy the longer posts by 'the usual suspects'.

[Vodka Drunkenski]

Lol

 

 

LGR

[Phil]

I wish some blueshirt brotherhood users were limited to 140 characters or less. ;)

 

But I do enjoy the longer posts by 'the usual suspects'.

 

Yeah, me. :rofl:

 

 

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[phillyb]

I have definitely admitted in the past, and it's true to this day, I barely read posts. And I rarely read those novels that some of you guys post.

[Phil]

Barely read that post.

 

 

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[phillyb]

Speaking of which, the default signature from the new app is longer than 140 characters :catfight:

[RichieNextel305]

I love this place, so don't take this the wrong way. But the politics of this place a little while back were so out of wack, and I know a lot of people, myself included, had issues. I'm still here, some aren't. Some just lurk now. But for a while, some of the issues here scared some people off or just annoyed them away. That I do know.

[Phil]

Political talk, you mean, or actual forum policy?

 

 

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[RichieNextel305]

I wouldn't say policy in general. But maybe a form of it. A lot of people weren't thrilled with the way this place looked the last few seasons here, where every thread was a fight featuring the same few people.

[Mike]

I like everyone here, except for most of you.

[TwoMinutesForNothing]

I love this place, so don't take this the wrong way. But the politics of this place a little while back were so out of wack, and I know a lot of people, myself included, had issues. I'm still here, some aren't. Some just lurk now. But for a while, some of the issues here scared some people off or just annoyed them away. That I do know.

 

Pretty much this. Still read a lot, but just wasn't worth the aggravation of posting anymore due to a few other posters. I'll post from time to time, but can't really get involved in a real discussion because I know how it's going to go.

[H-Dreamer]

Never felt like I know enough (mainly due to distance) for me to join the real in-depth debates.

Then the losses to the Kings and Bolts killed a lot of my enthusiam for the team (for now), I really can't justify staying up till 4AM every other day anymore. Became too exhausting after adding deep Playoff runs.

 

General decline in activity here didn't help making it justifiable either.

[LindG1000]

For me that's usually uncorrected autocorrect mistakes.

 

Sinful. Ugh.

[Guest]

I wouldn't say policy in general. But maybe a form of it. A lot of people weren't thrilled with the way this place looked the last few seasons here, where every thread was a fight featuring the same few people.

 

Pretty much this. Still read a lot, but just wasn't worth the aggravation of posting anymore due to a few other posters. I'll post from time to time, but can't really get involved in a real discussion because I know how it's going to go.

 

If you like posting from time to time but don't want to get into deeper debates, then why not just post what you want and ignore posts you don't feel like responding to? I post a lot and get into some deeper conversations. I've also started to type out replies to some people and realized I was getting agitated. At that point, I just hit cancel and move on to a different post or to something else.

 

I guess what I'm saying is if you enjoy this place in some way (which, you must, since you two have been here for a combined decade) then why not just walk right past what you don't like? No place online or in the real world is going to be 100% what you want it to be. In the real world if you like going to a bar because there are 10 people you like there but there are also 1 or 2 that annoy you for what ever reason, you don't quit going to the bar. You just ignore the ones who you don't like.

 

Or maybe that's just me.

[RichieNextel305]

Because almost every post would turn into a fight, with someone getting the last word in. And if you went against them after they tried to get their last word in, warnings and infractions were threatened.

 

It just was a bit out of hand with the favoritism for a bit. I will say that. Certain people were treated better than others, which wasn't right.

[Vodka Drunkenski]

But as AJ said, you ignore those posts that will eventually turn into a fight. I know I've been guilty of attacking/initiating but I've also been targeted by a mod or two just by reputation even though it wasn't warranted at the time. I try to avoid them most of the time now.

 

I think a lot of the problems here (at least on the sports side) have to do with the large emphasis on analytics these days, many refuse to deviate from it and many refuse to acknowledge it. This is not everyone though.

 

I love this place, I don't want to see it die out like the last boards. Glad I started this thread, although I didn't intentionally look for it gain any traction but more or less just make a statement to all posters, new and old.

 

 

LGR

[Guest]

Because almost every post would turn into a fight, with someone getting the last word in. And if you went against them after they tried to get their last word in, warnings and infractions were threatened.

 

It just was a bit out of hand with the favoritism for a bit. I will say that. Certain people were treated better than others, which wasn't right.

 

It's difficult to hash this out without specific examples to draw from. And maybe some on the mod staff wouldn't want me having this conversation here without discussing it first. Because that's how we do things. When any non cut and dry situation on the forum occurs, we have a discussion behind closed doors about it. Most of the time we're all in agreement right away on how to handle a situation. Sometimes we are not and have to debate it.

 

What drives us in our decision making is both the letter of the rules that have been established here along with the spirit of those rules.

 

It is completely acceptable to have an opinion here, passionately debate it and refuse to back down from it. Within that standard, you can say almost anything about another user's post that you want so long as it isn't racist, bigoted or overly sexual and is in response to the post (with the exception of the Political forum which I'll explain in a moment). What you can't do is make posts about other users.

 

I bolded that, because that ultimately is the line that most frequently gets crossed across the general forum. It doesn't matter if it's a user or a mod, no one can insult another user here. That's where debate, even passionate debate, breaks down. That's when the warnings and infractions come out.

 

Now, sometimes when someone is dismissive towards your opinion, it may feel like they are insulting you. But that's not the case. Let me give you an example. Lets say I post this:

 

The world isn't really round, the way everyone says. That's a conspiracy theory created by globists. It's really flat. And people fall off the edge all the time and they don't want you to know that.

 

Here's an improper response:

 

You're an idiot if you think this. We've seen pictures from space. I bet you're so dumb you probably think the moon landing was faked, too. Moron.

 

That's cut and dry. We all know that you can't respond this way. Well, you also can't respond like this:

 

That's absurd. You'd have to be a child to believe that.

 

Not as clear, but we don't accept calling anyone's opinion absurd or likening them to a child.

 

Here's a response that the person might not want to hear, but is perfectly acceptable here.

 

Hundreds of years of science and research would disagree with you. The number of people who think the earth is flat is tiny. Like all fringe groups, the internet gives them a platform so it seems like there's some agreement. The world is clearly round. The vast majority of people on this ball shaped planet know that.

 

That's a perfectly acceptable response. It may be a little hostile, but it doesn't break any forum rules. The hostility is coming from the passion of the opposing view, not a dislike of the person posting or a want to be insulting.

 

We've had a number of reports about mods over the years. I've had posts of mine reported on a number of occasions. When that happens, we have a discussion on the post to see if it crossed the line. I've made posts that have crossed the line. It's been clear to me that those posts were across the line after being removed from the heat of the battle. Thankfully, I don't have a long history of discipline here and the offenses of my posts weren't so bad that they'd warrant an infraction. If they were I have no doubt that I would have been infracted. When these posts of mine have occurred, I've gone back and apologized publicly on the forum to the person or people I've crossed the line with or reached out to them privately. That's not a requirement by any means, just how I've tended to handle these situations. And I've tried to learn from those experiences.

 

Ok, finally, sorry this is so long, but one other area. The political forum has really two additional rules. Posts have to have substance there. We don't allow for just dropping one liners because they derail what can often be very heated debates. We also don't allow for the assigning of a user to a political group and then attacking that group. In other words, you can't say "you're just being a typical Republican. They don't know anything about...".

[RichieNextel305]

I get all of that. But again, and the only people who have seemed to disagree with this in the past have unfortunately been the mods, there were different rules for different users for awhile, which unfortunately either drove people away completely, got people who shouldn't have been infracted actually infracted, or forced people to become lurkers more so than users. I'm just saying what has been told to me.

 

And again this isn't a knock. But for awhile, that's how this place was perceived unfortunately. Alot of issues usually involved the same 2 or so people. And while they got away scot-free, others would be suspended or infracted. It was difficult to ignore because it got annoying. And saying to simply ignore it was difficult because honestly, those posters posted in just about every thread about the Rangers on a Rangers message board. So saying ignore it is fine and well and all, but it's not as easy as it seems unfortunately. And the way alot of issues were handled, I've heard, turned alot of people off to posting here. Hence the slow up, which is larger than usual even now.

 

Just explaining what I've been told, and honestly, what I've seen.

[Respecttheblue]

I wouldn't say policy in general. But maybe a form of it. A lot of people weren't thrilled with the way this place looked the last few seasons here, where every thread was a fight featuring the same few people.

 

Pretty much this. Still read a lot, but just wasn't worth the aggravation of posting anymore due to a few other posters. I'll post from time to time, but can't really get involved in a real discussion because I know how it's going to go.

 

Never felt like I know enough (mainly due to distance) for me to join the real in-depth debates.

 

 

Well I'm glad this finally became a more open and less "untouchable" or "un-broachable" question. Mods and alpha users please listen up. These posts speak volumes if you take them to heart -- they are quietly giving you an indication of something that's been ailing BSBH, at least for some of us middle of the road users.

 

I don't think it's just an accident of the Internet we've lost a lot of "part timers" and middle of the road users. And yes, family issues have taken more of many folks time too, ... ... ... but I can definitely say I just plain gave up on a lot of posts I started and would have posted for the reasons expressed above.

/ too much time and aggravation than it was worth to nitpick-proof a post from often gratuitously contrarian and negative attacks.

 

The evolution of several things over the last few years including:

—*long my knowledge is bigger and better than yours-style pissing matches, or

—*threads that only super-users, or only high-hockey-knowledge users need apply,

aspect got way out of hand. If mods and alpha users want it that way, fine, but be prepared for even more dwindling user base.

 

Maybe the way things have become works fine for a few core alpha participants, but IMO it became probably unintentionally exclusionary to many middle-of-the-road users who over the years have helped make this place fun. On our own, one user here you can maybe dismiss if you want to, but in number, these long time middle of the road users are very hard to replace, and were all at one point valued members of the flock.

 

The barriers to entry — and they really have become barriers to discussion for many — in terms of time, knowledge and advanced statistics research and "aggravation," as 2MFN put it, to many threads started to get very very high some time ago. (At least to my eye, and clearly for some others who are now expressing it). And gauging by the number of users who have fallen by the wayside, maybe many of those folk, too. It's been an evolution, maybe a natural one, but maybe some tendencies have pushed it too far out of the realm for folks who once helped make this place more fun.

 

Why haven't folk spoken up about this much before, but just silently fall off the map? because Moderator disapproval and ostracizing, back-lash, reprisals, group-think, mob mentality are a fear factor. Most folks want fun, information, insight but also an accessible level of discussion, without threat of reprisals or being ganged up on for speaking out.

 

As for high-knowledge aspect, I don't want to sound like it's all bad. We want to know, too, but sometimes we do need "time and crayons." Sure the PhD-level advanced stats have their place, and this is as good a place as any to feast on them, but when the prevailing winds shift of a critical mass of discussions only a select few have the precious hours and minutes or knowledge (or tolerance for hostility), to participate in, then guess what? It runs the risk of becoming a forum for a small number of alpha users.

 

P.S. Some people can't participate during the WORK day, and only sometimes at night, and that shouldn't be an unspoken expectation for valued membership, either.

 

The only reason I even have the time to post this is a very rare day off ... but I think the moderators and alpha users of this site need to SIT UP AND PAY ATTENTION when the TwoMinutesforNothing and Richie Nextels and Phillybs and H-dreamers, and middle of the road folk, go out on a limb and suggest there's an aspect/ethos/trend in the nature of discussion in the site that that has been evolving for quite some time that has hurt participation.[/b].

 

This is very hard to put in words, but I know Phil, and some other mods and leaders here, you are exceptionally intelligent people and should be able to figure out what I (some of us) are painfully and sadly trying to express here before the day is lost.

[Respecttheblue]

If you like posting from time to time but don't want to get into deeper debates, then why not just post what you want and ignore posts you don't feel like responding to? I post a lot and get into some deeper conversations. I've also started to type out replies to some people and realized I was getting agitated. At that point, I just hit cancel and move on to a different post or to something else.

 

I guess what I'm saying is if you enjoy this place in some way (which, you must, since you two have been here for a combined decade) then why not just walk right past what you don't like? No place online or in the real world is going to be 100% what you want it to be. In the real world if you like going to a bar because there are 10 people you like there but there are also 1 or 2 that annoy you for what ever reason, you don't quit going to the bar. You just ignore the ones who you don't like.

 

Or maybe that's just me.

 

AJ I respect your hockey knowledge and insight greatly, but I think it may be more systemic than that.

 

A much higher percentage than before, a mountain of the discussion is becoming kinda "unapproachable" in the time and intensity sense -- see my long post, if you care.

 

it's like a hiker out for a hike, and what used to be friendly hills and valleys and occasional challenging but doable climbs,

has turned into ... well, it's like that same hiker is now confronted by mountains all around and just says forget about it, it's too much, or like Richie says, "I know where this is going to go" in one way or another.

 

See my earlier long post [apologies for the long post],

http://www.blueshirtsbrotherhood.com/showthread.php?18326-Calling-ALL-Posters&p=858394&viewfull=1#post858394

it's kind of a desperate cry in the wilderness some of us middle-of-the-road posters are feeling.

 

I don't want to say I speak for all of us little guys. I know I don't, but the membership/participation is at risk, and if this is the thread to discuss it, then that is my best balls-out candid contribution.

[Guest]

Rather than quote both posts, Respecttheblue, let me just respond. First, the "time and crayons" in my signature is just something I found on Imgur that I thought was funny. It was certainly not an attack against any user or type of user here. That said, after I make this post I'm going to change it, because I can easily see how it can be taken that way, especially considering I'm a mod. It was not my intent at all, though.

 

I get what you're saying about the barrier to post here. I think that's kind of necessary though. That's what forums can offer that Facebook, Twitter and the like can not. The forum can't beat Facebook or Twitter for casual discussion of the Rangers. It will fail completely if that's all it did. Here, that's what the game day threads tend to be. Quick, short, less thought out posts, often about what just happened but sometimes overall takes on players, an aspect of the team, management, etc.

 

For topic threads though, detailed, in depth almost blog like posts mingling with less detailed or thought out posts are what we're going to have here. What a forum does is create an environment for that level of discussion. I get that it's not for everyone. And if people don't want to participate in that level of discussion, I get how the forum could seem overwhelming or inhospitable.

 

Yes, if you post something that someone disagrees with, you may get a novel in response. Nothing will stop that because we're not going to warn/ban users for being too in depth. And there would be little reason for those who created and manage the forum to continue to put out the expense and time commitment that it takes in order to, in essence, try to compete against Facebook or Twitter as a casual conversation platform.

[Future]

As for high-knowledge aspect, I don't want to sound like it's all bad. We want to know, too, but sometimes we do need "time and crayons." Sure the PhD-level advanced stats have their place, and this is as good a place as any to feast on them, but when the prevailing winds shift of a critical mass of discussions only a select few have the precious hours and minutes or knowledge (or tolerance for hostility), to participate in, then guess what? It runs the risk of becoming a forum for a small number of alpha users.

I see what you're saying in that the in-depth debates, if we want to call them that, can be a little bit unapproachable. But I don't know that I agree, and I don't really think any poster - mod or not - should have to simplify their posts just so others feel included. That's a tough argument to make.

 

I think the hostility and, at times, condescension is probably valid, but, while I understand your point, the fact that you don't have time to post more because of work/kids/spending too much time at the bar/whatever isn't really anybody else's fault and shouldn't be a reason to not post thoughts. Opinions still drive this and every other forum, there's no reason that every post has to be a scholarly argument.

 

I post the first thing that comes to my head all the time and don't feel like I'm not contributing because of it. Others might, lol, but I don't.