Youth/Minor/Development Hockey

[Dunny]

My oldest is in "House League" and they have close to 5 hours/week of practice, skillz, and power skating.

 

Play a 32 game schedule plus a 12 to 20 game playoff and 3 tournaments.

 

There's no local league, anymore.

 

Almost invariably, these house league coaches never really played rep hockey growing up, so they think and treat it like rep. It's hyper competitive. I just laugh at it, typically.

 

When I was that age, house league kids played on Saturdays, for an hour, and never traveled more than 10 miles.

[Pete]

Just now, Dunny said:

My oldest is in "House League" and they have close to 5 hours/week of practice, skillz, and power skating.

 

Play a 32 game schedule plus a 12 to 20 game playoff and 3 tournaments.

 

There's no local league, anymore.

 

Almost invariably, these house league coaches never really played rep hockey growing up, so they think and treat it like rep. It's hyper competitive. I just laugh at it, typically.

 

When I was that age, house league kids played on Saturdays, for an hour, and never traveled more than 10 miles.

That's what I'm looking for. 

[Dunny]

4 minutes ago, Pete said:

Will do.

 

I also am pretty sure I don't want him hitting either, so that'll be part of finding a rec situation as he gets older. 

 

I never considered this, but oldest was on the fringe for a rep spot and got absolutely destroyed in try outs.

 

I wish they'd bring hitting back to younger ages so they can get comfortable with it. It's pretty hard to pick up contact at age 15 and not get yourself in some awful situations.

[Dunny]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

That's what I'm looking for. 

 

Yeah, me too. When I make this statement at board meetings everyone looks at me like I have two heads. Why would you sink thousands of dollars and tonnes of time in to a kid that just wants to go for a skate and score a goal once a year. I don't get it.

 

There's 37 teams in his division this year. 3 hour drive from tip to tip of the loop. Dumbest shit ever.

[Pete]

1 minute ago, Dunny said:

 

I never considered this, but oldest was on the fringe for a rep spot and got absolutely destroyed in try outs.

 

I wish they'd bring hitting back to younger ages so they can get comfortable with it. It's pretty hard to pick up contact at age 15 and not get yourself in some awful situations.

There's a 50/50 chance he can't play with hitting. I was diagnosed with a heart defect (bicuspid aorta) when I was 40 and they told me I should never have been playing hockey and my kids should be checked for it. If he has it, he can't play certain sports. 

[Pete]

1 minute ago, Dunny said:

 

Yeah, me too. When I make this statement at board meetings everyone looks at me like I have two heads. Why would you sink thousands of dollars and tonnes of time in to a kid that just wants to go for a skate and score a goal once a year. I don't get it.

 

There's 37 teams in his division this year. 3 hour drive from tip to tip of the loop. Dumbest shit ever.

 

I have to fight with my kid to go to a 5pm practice but he'll wake up at 5am to drive an hour to play 20 minutes. 

[Morphinity 2.0]

51 minutes ago, Dunny said:

My oldest is in "House League" and they have close to 5 hours/week of practice, skillz, and power skating.

 

Play a 32 game schedule plus a 12 to 20 game playoff and 3 tournaments.

 

There's no local league, anymore.

 

Almost invariably, these house league coaches never really played rep hockey growing up, so they think and treat it like rep. It's hyper competitive. I just laugh at it, typically.

 

When I was that age, house league kids played on Saturdays, for an hour, and never traveled more than 10 miles.

Yeah that's not house league lol

 

Absolutely insane time commitment for non-meaningfully competitive hockey. Like what's the point of sinking in all that time for what is essentially a half-measure?

[Dunny]

It's 95% of the towns social life for 6 months a year. Most of our parents crave it. It's all about the parents, after all.

 

I'm not much better. We put the GDP of Namibia in to my daughter's dance every year, and my youngest son is going to have to essentially prove to me he's not a junior B level goalie before I stop spending on him.

 

Long story short, we're very, very poor, and very busy.

[Dunny]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

There's a 50/50 chance he can't play with hitting. I was diagnosed with a heart defect (bicuspid aorta) when I was 40 and they told me I should never have been playing hockey and my kids should be checked for it. If he has it, he can't play certain sports. 

 

Gotta be a way they can check that out? When is hitting introduced in the US?

 

 

[Pete]

4 minutes ago, Dunny said:

 

Gotta be a way they can check that out? When is hitting introduced in the US?

 

 

Yea he needs an echocardiogram. They hit at 12, I think.

[Dunny]

Well, we're a wrap on the season. U8 was pretty awful, but we found a way to make.the most of it, lots of unsanctioned 3v3 tournaments, but also lots of work on the side.

 

I'm pretty happy with development. He would be even further along if he listened to me, but that's the way it goes. We made the team on our #1 spring hockey choice, which was nice, and we're starting some work with former Ranger property, and Benoit Allaire disciple Jason Missiaen this weekend. Pure goalie power skating.

 

One more year of fake hockey then the real fun starts.

 

Any other '16 kids attached the to board, let me know, you never know where they'll meet.

[Albatrosss]

59 minutes ago, Dunny said:

Well, we're a wrap on the season. U8 was pretty awful, but we found a way to make.the most of it, lots of unsanctioned 3v3 tournaments, but also lots of work on the side.

 

I'm pretty happy with development. He would be even further along if he listened to me, but that's the way it goes. We made the team on our #1 spring hockey choice, which was nice, and we're starting some work with former Ranger property, and Benoit Allaire disciple Jason Missiaen this weekend. Pure goalie power skating.

 

One more year of fake hockey then the real fun starts.

 

Any other '16 kids attached the to board, let me know, you never know where they'll meet.

one more step to a marvelous NHL career.  

[Dunny]

2 hours ago, Albatrosss said:

one more step to a marvelous NHL career.  

 

Don't be bitter.

 

Our goal is to just be the goalie on the Local "A" team. The rest is gravy.

[Albatrosss]

48 minutes ago, Dunny said:

 

Don't be bitter.

 

Our goal is to just be the goalie on the Local "A" team. The rest is gravy.

[Pete]

Yeah, we get that around here too...."for the college scholarship."

 

Nothing like dumping $8-$10k/year into hockey for 10 years instead of just putting it in a 529 and paying for college the old fashioned way. 

[jsm7302]

6 minutes ago, Pete said:

Yeah, we get that around here too...."for the college scholarship."

 

Nothing like dumping $8-$10k/year into hockey for 10 years instead of just putting it in a 529 and paying for college the old fashioned way. 

[Dunny]

I don't even think they hand out many full rides? Not in my experience, anyways.

 

US college just seems like a class competition. 

 

Probably better off leveraging the relationships and lessons you make playing sport to set you up for a great start in life, college or not. 

 

I know I'd rather take a 5k paycheque from a junior C team, and have the handshake trades job that'll pay you 75k at age 18. Many of those success stories where I live. Not many NHL players.

[jsm7302]

At what age do you think true talent becomes apparent and sets kids apart from the pack?

[Dunny]

Very good question. I think it Depends. Forward? Goalie? D man? What level of talent? A local rep team or NHL aspirations?

 

A PJHL player is a very talented hockey player, and they'll never even sniff the ECHL. You would be very fortunate to develop in to even a PJHL level player. 

 

Goalies follow really crazy development curves. Just look at Logan Thompson.

 

I probably say it's much earlier than others would, but there are also always surprises.

 

I don't buy in to "He'll burn out by pee wee" mantra that's so popular. That was never my experience. All the best players I played with when I was 7 were still very good players at 19. All the best kids that played with my 15 yo at age 7 are still the best, they've just been joined by other later bloomers.

 

If you're talking NHL talent? I think if your kid is really struggling at the U8 or U9 level, it's probably not in the cards, but pure old fashioned hard work can close a lot of gaps.

Edited March 18 by Dunny

[Pete]

1 hour ago, jsm7302 said:

At what age do you think true talent becomes apparent and sets kids apart from the pack?

 

49 minutes ago, Dunny said:

Very good question. I think it Depends. Forward? Goalie? D man? What level of talent? A local rep team or NHL aspirations?

 

A PJHL player is a very talented hockey player, and they'll never even sniff the ECHL. You would be very fortunate to develop in to even a PJHL level player. 

 

Goalies follow really crazy development curves. Just look at Logan Thompson.

 

I probably say it's much earlier than others would, but there are also always surprises.

 

I don't buy in to "He'll burn out by pee wee" mantra that's so popular. That was never my experience. All the best players I played with when I was 7 were still very good players at 19. All the best kids that played with my 15 yo at age 7 are still the best, they've just been joined by other later bloomers.

 

If you're talking NHL talent? I think if your kid is really struggling at the U8 or U9 level, it's probably not in the cards, but pure old fashioned hard work can close a lot of gaps.

Here's been my experience so far, coupled with what I learned from parents with kids older than mine.

 

Generally, the kids that get most attention from the program are the better kids. So if your kid is on a B team, he's not getting anywhere near the skills attention that the higher ranked kids are.

 

The difference between the A tiers and B at u-10 normally boils down to who are the biggest kids and who got on skates earliest. Then it will become who can afford the privates.

 

As the kids get older, yes, the kids who have the most skill earlier will likely have the more skill later but then life gets in the way. Who wants to play other sports, who wants to chase tail, who's drinking, etc. The introduction of checking also adds an additional dynamic.

 

I kind of laugh at some of our parents who stress over "tryouts" and all these parents who switch programs every season because they think other ones are better. They're generally all the same for one reason or another. You try to move to a "better program" and there's more politics involved. It's a trade off. 

 

All these kids are headed to beer league. USA hockey really doesn't promote or care about what's happening in New Jersey. They know where their bread is buttered, the Midwest and New England. 

 

@Dunny has seen way more of it than I have. 

Edited March 18 by Pete

[Dunny]

27 minutes ago, Pete said:

 

Here's been my experience so far, coupled with what I learned from parents with kids older than mine.

 

Generally, the kids that get most attention from the program are the better kids. So if your kid is on a B team, he's not getting anywhere near the skills attention that the higher ranked kids are.

 

The difference between the A tiers and B at u-10 normally boils down to who are the biggest kids and who got on skates earliest. Then it will become who can afford the privates.

 

As the kids get older, yes, the kids who have the most skill earlier will likely have the more skill later but then life gets in the way. Who wants to play other sports, who wants to chase tail, who's drinking, etc. The introduction of checking also adds an additional dynamic.

 

I kind of laugh at some of our parents who stress over "tryouts" and all these parents who switch programs every season because they think other ones are better. They're generally all the same for one reason or another. You try to move to a "better program" and there's more politics involved. It's a trade off. 

 

All these kids are headed to beer league. USA hockey really doesn't promote or care about what's happening in New Jersey. They know where their bread is buttered, the Midwest and New England. 

 

@Dunny has seen way more of it than I have. 

 

A lot of good points, there. 

 

Access is probably a much bigger issue for a lot of Americans not in Minnesota. I have 23 rinks within a very easy 30 minute drive. Not 23 pads, 23 stand alone rinks lol. Costs for entry in to hockey here are incredibly low, and even if you flat out don't have the resources to put your kid through hockey, we'll do it for you. From my time on the board of our org, of the 225ish kids in the program, there's always a couple we're paying for. It's all good.

 

So, I can't really speak to much of the US. I can only assume from what I see in the NHL, that in much of the US hockey is a upper middle class sport, there.

 

I also agree that they'll all end up in the same place, but there are exceptions akin to winning the lottery. Our neighbors kid is a u15 that is 100% going to be drafted, likely in the 1st round, of the OHL priority draft *if* he continues his development curve for one more year. That will be, by far, the highest OHL pick from my town of 8,000, ever. We've never had a NHL player from our town. Never. 125 years. (We do have a recent Yale captain to our name fuck yeah). 

 

What people over look, or don't care to acknowledge, are the lessons playing sport at a high-ish youth level teach you, the bonds it forges, and the arms length opportunities it will present you later in life. I don't know many local guys that played PJHL or OJHL here that didn't get a step up at age 20 over others. *wink wink nudge nudge*

 

Anyways, my reasons for pushing this kid are both selfish and benevolent. I have a 15 yo that wanted to play House League, and was only good enough to play House League. Cool. It's fun. Not my thing, but sure, lol.

 

Now, I have a kid that is very good, but also very young. He will get run down by much better athletes (Sorry, son, my bad) very quickly unless he outworks them. He gets that, and he wants it. Wants it bad. Until that changes, I gotta support that shit.

 

[Pete]

14 minutes ago, Dunny said:

 

A lot of good points, there. 

 

Access is probably a much bigger issue for a lot of Americans not in Minnesota. I have 23 rinks within a very easy 30 minute drive. Not 23 pads, 23 stand alone rinks lol. Costs for entry in to hockey here are incredibly low, and even if you flat out don't have the resources to put your kid through hockey, we'll do it for you. From my time on the board of our org, of the 225ish kids in the program, there's always a couple we're paying for. It's all good.

 

So, I can't really speak to much of the US. I can only assume from what I see in the NHL, that in much of the US hockey is a upper middle class sport, there.

 

I also agree that they'll all end up in the same place, but there are exceptions akin to winning the lottery. Our neighbors kid is a u15 that is 100% going to be drafted, likely in the 1st round, of the OHL priority draft *if* he continues his development curve for one more year. That will be, by far, the highest OHL pick from my town of 8,000, ever. We've never had a NHL player from our town. Never. 125 years. (We do have a recent Yale captain to our name fuck yeah). 

 

What people over look, or don't care to acknowledge, are the lessons playing sport at a high-ish youth level teach you, the bonds it forges, and the arms length opportunities it will present you later in life. I don't know many local guys that played PJHL or OJHL here that didn't get a step up at age 20 over others. *wink wink nudge nudge*

 

Anyways, my reasons for pushing this kid are both selfish and benevolent. I have a 15 yo that wanted to play House League, and was only good enough to play House League. Cool. It's fun. Not my thing, but sure, lol.

 

Now, I have a kid that is very good, but also very young. He will get run down by much better athletes (Sorry, son, my bad) very quickly unless he outworks them. He gets that, and he wants it. Wants it bad. Until that changes, I gotta support that shit.

 

Yea, Canada much different story re: things like scholarships. Agreed on the social aspect, the bonds, working as a team, All the kids on my son's team are good kids. I kind of think you get that in college as well, I used to frown upon fraternities, but now I see them as useful tools. 

 

Also great point on the number of sheets you guys have. We have a very low-end program, but it's not considered tier A because we only have one regulation rank and one pad. You need to have two full sheets to be considered a tier 1.

 

It's politics.

[Puck Head]

On 3/18/2024 at 3:06 PM, Pete said:

Yea, Canada much different story re: things like scholarships. Agreed on the social aspect, the bonds, working as a team, All the kids on my son's team are good kids. I kind of think you get that in college as well, I used to frown upon fraternities, but now I see them as useful tools. 

 

Also great point on the number of sheets you guys have. We have a very low-end program, but it's not considered tier A because we only have one regulation rank and one pad. You need to have two full sheets to be considered a tier 1.

 

It's politics.

Two full sheets to be considered iter 1?
I don't understand this.

 

 

[Puck Head]

On 3/18/2024 at 12:20 PM, Dunny said:

I don't even think they hand out many full rides? Not in my experience, anyways.

 

US college just seems like a class competition. 

 

Probably better off leveraging the relationships and lessons you make playing sport to set you up for a great start in life, college or not. 

 

I know I'd rather take a 5k paycheque from a junior C team, and have the handshake trades job that'll pay you 75k at age 18. Many of those success stories where I live. Not many NHL players.

NCAA US colleges offer 18 per team, (full ride) and Hockey Atlantic offers 14 each team.

RIT and Union offer no scholarships.

So just over 1k full ride scholarships out there.

 

[Dunny]

33 minutes ago, Puck Head said:

NCAA US colleges offer 18 per team, (full ride) and Hockey Atlantic offers 14 each team.

RIT and Union offer no scholarships.

So just over 1k full ride scholarships out there.

 

 

Thanks.. does that include meals/books/lodging, or just tuition?