Youth/Minor/Development Hockey

[Puck Head]

On 3/22/2024 at 1:19 PM, Dunny said:

 

Thanks.. does that include meals/books/lodging, or just tuition?

Meals lodging and books also. 
But those 18 scholarships are spread amongst 26 players or so. So 2-3 get scholarships due to academics (a work around) and depending on school, freshman sometimes split scholarships. So 3-4 may be on 60% scholarships 

[MuddyInTheMiddle]

On 3/18/2024 at 6:50 PM, Dunny said:

eople over look, or don't care to acknowledge, are the lessons playing sport at a high-ish youth lev

 

On 3/18/2024 at 6:03 PM, Pete said:

 

Here's been my experience so far, coupled with what I learned from parents with kids older than mine.

 

Generally, the kids that get most attention from the program are the better kids. So if your kid is on a B team, he's not getting anywhere near the skills attention that the higher ranked kids are.

 

The difference between the A tiers and B at u-10 normally boils down to who are the biggest kids and who got on skates earliest. Then it will become who can afford the privates.

 

As the kids get older, yes, the kids who have the most skill earlier will likely have the more skill later but then life gets in the way. Who wants to play other sports, who wants to chase tail, who's drinking, etc. The introduction of checking also adds an additional dynamic.

 

I kind of laugh at some of our parents who stress over "tryouts" and all these parents who switch programs every season because they think other ones are better. They're generally all the same for one reason or another. You try to move to a "better program" and there's more politics involved. It's a trade off. 

 

All these kids are headed to beer league. USA hockey really doesn't promote or care about what's happening in New Jersey. They know where their bread is buttered, the Midwest and New England. 

 

@Dunny has seen way more of it than I have. 

 

Pretty good sum up there.

 

The only thing that I would add is that puberty is the great equalizer. When the checking starts, you will get some kids who are late puberty develop deep seeded fears of going into the corners, traffic, and along the boards that some of them never seem to recover from.

 

When you start looking at the differences between Tier 1 & 2 levels(AAA & AA) vs. Tier 3(A, A1, B, etc....), you run into the interesting breed of parent called the "letter chaser". It's comical because Tier 1 has become so watered down there are almost 2 levels of Tier 1 which are the truly elite programs like Avalanche, Gulls, etc.....and then the organizations that will use their charter to stamp out as many AAA teams as there sucker parents will to pay 10K to say that their kids play AAA.

 

My kids plays on one of the better AA teams in the local area and that has served him much better than playing on some of those so called AAA teams. Following good coaching and lots of ice time has served us well so far.    

[Pete]

2 hours ago, MuddyInTheMiddle said:

 

 

Pretty good sum up there.

 

The only thing that I would add is that puberty is the great equalizer. When the checking starts, you will get some kids who are late puberty develop deep seeded fears of going into the corners, traffic, and along the boards that some of them never seem to recover from.

 

When you start looking at the differences between Tier 1 & 2 levels(AAA & AA) vs. Tier 3(A, A1, B, etc....), you run into the interesting breed of parent called the "letter chaser". It's comical because Tier 1 has become so watered down there are almost 2 levels of Tier 1 which are the truly elite programs like Avalanche, Gulls, etc.....and then the organizations that will use their charter to stamp out as many AAA teams as there sucker parents will to pay 10K to say that their kids play AAA.

 

My kids plays on one of the better AA teams in the local area and that has served him much better than playing on some of those so called AAA teams. Following good coaching and lots of ice time has served us well so far.    

Agree with following ice time. My kid has already had two coaches say He needs to get on the ice more with them, and I say that's totally fine as long as you're paying for it. 

[Puck Head]

Th difference between our AAA, AA, and Tier 3 is somewhat minimal. 
About the same amount of ice, I’d say AAA spends out to get more full sheets, plus the travel outside from alaska is expensive. 
thay being said, we only have one AAA team in the state for each age group, and season costs are around 3500 per season (60-70 games, 4 tourneys outside), etc. mainly due to corporate sponsors.

Our AA is actually more expensive.

[Puck Head]

When I think of AAA, i think of Shattucks, Little Ceasers, Compuware, Victory Honda, Pittsburgh, LA Jr Kings, etc.

 

There is so much “AAA” now it’s watered down  

Edited April 4 by Puck Head

[Dunny]

I dunno, that's kinda like saying the NHL is watered down, now vs. 40 years ago, but whose better? 

 

There are certainly many bad AAA teams, and the new dynamic is "Eliiiite". We played in an unsanctioned "AAA" tournament last weekend in the GTA, only to see that there was a "AAA and an "ELITE AAA" division. My kid is a goalie, we didn't have a team there, he just got picked up (for free!!) by the Everest Academy to fill in. Everest is a 30k/year hockey focused private school with some impressive alumni.

 

We got deeeestroyed. Henry played well, but the team was 80% Korean and 20% Jewish, all at the academy for their affluence vs their ability. Don't get me wrong, they were pretty good players, but the KLEVR League T1 "ELITE" teams we played were mind blowingly good. Pretty neat to play against the best 8 year olds in Canada, definitely a drop between elite and standard AAA.

 

Anyways, we have KLEVR tryouts this weekend. Team is owned/coached by Theo Peckham. Totally ground breaking US style programs, in Canada. Very novel. 

 

$2800 CDN Fee. 4.5 hours/week practice, plus exhibition game. KLEVR plays a single, mandatory, tournament every month, so it's very regimented, also very professional.

 

Vs.

 

$500 CDN for our local OMHA program. Play half ice at U9 rep level. Don't even keep score, no tournaments, as they don't want winners/losers. The extra money saved would be put in to development w/ proper goalie coaches.

 

The choice is obvious... I think he'd better benefit from stashing the ego, staying home, and getting specialized instruction with the saved cash, but Hockey Canada/OMHA is so cucked, so infiltrated by activists and scared of their own shadow (mostly their own fault) that I just can't do it.

[Dunny]

I can't wait for the debates over the next 5 years when they start allowing CHL grads in to the NCAA lol

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Puck Head said:

Th difference between our AAA, AA, and Tier 3 is somewhat minimal. 
About the same amount of ice, I’d say AAA spends out to get more full sheets, plus the travel outside from alaska is expensive. 
thay being said, we only have one AAA team in the state for each age group, and season costs are around 3500 per season (60-70 games, 4 tourneys outside), etc. mainly due to corporate sponsors.

Our AA is actually more expensive.

 

1 hour ago, Dunny said:

I dunno, that's kinda like saying the NHL is watered down, now vs. 40 years ago, but whose better? 

 

There are certainly many bad AAA teams, and the new dynamic is "Eliiiite". We played in an unsanctioned "AAA" tournament last weekend in the GTA, only to see that there was a "AAA and an "ELITE AAA" division. My kid is a goalie, we didn't have a team there, he just got picked up (for free!!) by the Everest Academy to fill in. Everest is a 30k/year hockey focused private school with some impressive alumni.

 

We got deeeestroyed. Henry played well, but the team was 80% Korean and 20% Jewish, all at the academy for their affluence vs their ability. Don't get me wrong, they were pretty good players, but the KLEVR League T1 "ELITE" teams we played were mind blowingly good. Pretty neat to play against the best 8 year olds in Canada, definitely a drop between elite and standard AAA.

 

Anyways, we have KLEVR tryouts this weekend. Team is owned/coached by Theo Peckham. Totally ground breaking US style programs, in Canada. Very novel. 

 

$2800 CDN Fee. 4.5 hours/week practice, plus exhibition game. KLEVR plays a single, mandatory, tournament every month, so it's very regimented, also very professional.

 

Vs.

 

$500 CDN for our local OMHA program. Play half ice at U9 rep level. Don't even keep score, no tournaments, as they don't want winners/losers. The extra money saved would be put in to development w/ proper goalie coaches.

 

The choice is obvious... I think he'd better benefit from stashing the ego, staying home, and getting specialized instruction with the saved cash, but Hockey Canada/OMHA is so cucked, so infiltrated by activists and scared of their own shadow (mostly their own fault) that I just can't do it.

I'm about to drop $4,800 on my kids squirt season, not inclusive of tournament travel which hopefully will be only two. 

 

He's "A", but he's the first year squirt, so his team is comprised of the best mites and the worst second year squirts, which makes sense logistically but not competitively. 

 

@DunnyIt's funny that you mention affluence because that's really all it's about. It's not about ability at all the time. There are a ton of massively talented hockey players who won't sniff a scholarship or the NHL simply because of local level politics. 

 

We just got home from practice, where my kid did private lesson before that. A friend of mine just invited us for free ice because his kid pays more attention when my kid is there because my kid is very competitive and wants to be the best at every drill. My kid was twice as fast as the other two kids who were out there with him to the point where he lapped them on certain drills... It doesn't matter as nine or 10-year-olds. 

 

But because I don't have Koch brothers money, he's likely to end up in beer league, just like dad. Which is why when that Zach Hyman video went around, I kind of get it. It is all about what your parents can afford and what that sets you up for for the future. His road to the NHL wasn't easy, but it wasn't as hard as it is for everybody else. 

 

Edited April 5 by Pete

[Dunny]

Affluence plays a big part, but more so in the US, then here. I mean, I'm sure you could do it, Pete, if you really wanted to. It's painful, but it is possible. Just delay retirement a few years, like I'm going to do lol. It is a shame there isn't more ice available for you guys to dumb down the cost. Is there a US player that grew up poor in the past 30 years? Bobby Ryan, I guess, but he was in the OHL at 16.

 

It's crazy that it's got to this point, but that's the competitive nature of it. At one time, power skating was novel, now, it's mandatory, as basic as oxygen. Understanding our costs, I get frustrated at people that won't help their kids out, but they have homes on the lake, and boats, or snowmobiles, quads, toys, toys, toys. They won't even go to the free power skating session every week. They're lazy, and selfish. It's not a money problem. People paying $500 for 75 hours of ice, then crying "rip off" when there's a $60 tournament fee added on . 

 

As for the Hyman video, I also understood the point. Hymans dad was playing God. Buying entire leagues lol. He was a big part of what is is so gross about the GTHL, I'm sure he got every opportunity with NHL level skills coaches, conditions coaches, etc. But, that's life. 

 

 

 

 

[Pete]

7 minutes ago, Dunny said:

Affluence plays a big part, but more so in the US, then here. I mean, I'm sure you could do it, Pete, if you really wanted to. It's painful, but it is possible. Just delay retirement a few years, like I'm going to do lol. It is a shame there isn't more ice available for you guys to dumb down the cost. Is there a US player that grew up poor in the past 30 years? Bobby Ryan, I guess, but he was in the OHL at 16.

 

It's crazy that it's got to this point, but that's the competitive nature of it. At one time, power skating was novel, now, it's mandatory, as basic as oxygen. Understanding our costs, I get frustrated at people that won't help their kids out, but they have homes on the lake, and boats, or snowmobiles, quads, toys, toys, toys. They won't even go to the free power skating session every week. They're lazy, and selfish. It's not a money problem. People paying $500 for 75 hours of ice, then crying "rip off" when there's a $60 tournament fee added on . 

 

As for the Hyman video, I also understood the point. Hymans dad was playing God. Buying entire leagues lol. He was a big part of what is is so gross about the GTHL, I'm sure he got every opportunity with NHL level skills coaches, conditions coaches, etc. But, that's life. 

 

 

 

 

I'm already looking and not retiring until 68. I'm not going to delay it anymore, especially so my 9-year-old can have ice time and again, wind up in beer league lol. 

 

I don't nickel and dime it, if you're in for a penny or in for a pound as far as the league goes. But like I said earlier, we have kids on our team skating three times a week before school. $60 an hour times 3 days a week, That's about another $750 a month... To skate without pucks.

 

That'll pay for both of our cars.

[Dunny]

Kids AAA Spring team cost breakdown:

 

- 11 practices

- 4 Dryland Sessions

- 3 Tournaments

- 4 Exhibition games

- Track Suit

- Hoodie/Ball Cap

 

$400 CDN 

 

 

We actually got 16 sponsors in 48 hours.

[Dunny]

4 minutes ago, Pete said:

I'm already looking and not retiring until 68. I'm not going to delay it anymore, especially so my 9-year-old can have ice time and again, wind up in beer league lol. 

 

I don't nickel and dime it, if you're in for a penny or in for a pound as far as the league goes. But like I said earlier, we have kids on our team skating three times a week before school. $60 an hour times 3 days a week, That's about another $750 a month... To skate without pucks.

 

That'll pay for both of our cars.

 

When the car is paid for, maybe he can pick my kid up on the way to beer league lol

[MuddyInTheMiddle]

16 hours ago, Puck Head said:

When I think of AAA, i think of Shattucks, Little Ceasers, Compuware, Victory Honda, Pittsburgh, LA Jr Kings, etc.

 

There is so much “AAA” now it’s watered down  

 

Yup those are the Elite ones that I mentioned; at least their top teams at each age group. 

[Puck Head]

16 hours ago, Dunny said:

Kids AAA Spring team cost breakdown:

 

- 11 practices

- 4 Dryland Sessions

- 3 Tournaments

- 4 Exhibition games

- Track Suit

- Hoodie/Ball Cap

 

$400 CDN 

 

 

We actually got 16 sponsors in 48 hours.

I’m not a big fan of spring or summer hockey, but that’s good bang for your buck 

[Puck Head]

17 hours ago, Dunny said:

Affluence plays a big part, but more so in the US, then here. I mean, I'm sure you could do it, Pete, if you really wanted to. It's painful, but it is possible. Just delay retirement a few years, like I'm going to do lol. It is a shame there isn't more ice available for you guys to dumb down the cost. Is there a US player that grew up poor in the past 30 years? Bobby Ryan, I guess, but he was in the OHL at 16.

 

It's crazy that it's got to this point, but that's the competitive nature of it. At one time, power skating was novel, now, it's mandatory, as basic as oxygen. Understanding our costs, I get frustrated at people that won't help their kids out, but they have homes on the lake, and boats, or snowmobiles, quads, toys, toys, toys. They won't even go to the free power skating session every week. They're lazy, and selfish. It's not a money problem. People paying $500 for 75 hours of ice, then crying "rip off" when there's a $60 tournament fee added on . 

 

As for the Hyman video, I also understood the point. Hymans dad was playing God. Buying entire leagues lol. He was a big part of what is is so gross about the GTHL, I'm sure he got every opportunity with NHL level skills coaches, conditions coaches, etc. But, that's life. 

 

 

 

 

Gomez was poor as hell.

Alaska is a little closer

to Canada regarding available ice, outdoor ice, etc. 

biggest difference is it’s expensive to get our AAA team outside. 

[Puck Head]

19 hours ago, Dunny said:

I can't wait for the debates over the next 5 years when they start allowing CHL grads in to the NCAA lol

It’s going to be huge for the NCAA

i wonder if a CHL player could leave early at age 19-20?

Would allow that player the next step before professional hockey.

[Dunny]

I think it'll be great for both NCAA and CHL, but the impact downstream.. could be tough. 

 

BCHL, AJHL, GOJHL, OJHL, USHL, NAHL... they lose their big selling point

 

 

[siddious]

Leaving Vegas today on a flight with a bunch of ushl u16 and u18 kids there was a tournament here during the week 

[Puck Head]

On 4/5/2024 at 1:56 PM, Dunny said:

I think it'll be great for both NCAA and CHL, but the impact downstream.. could be tough. 

 

BCHL, AJHL, GOJHL, OJHL, USHL, NAHL... they lose their big selling point

 

 

USHL will be fine, it’s a league run as well if not better than most CHL programs. And still made up of 90% Americans. 
 

It’s the NAHL that gets crushed, along with maybe BCHL and AJHL. 

[Puck Head]

On 4/5/2024 at 3:06 PM, siddious said:

Leaving Vegas today on a flight with a bunch of ushl u16 and u18 kids there was a tournament here during the week 

I think those are are just u16/u18 youth hockey teams. Not affiliated with the USHL

 

 

[siddious]

12 minutes ago, Puck Head said:

I think those are are just u16/u18 youth hockey teams. Not affiliated with the USHL

 

 

Ahh I saw them all wearing the hoodies 

[Puck Head]

1 hour ago, siddious said:

Ahh I saw them all wearing the hoodies 

That specific tournament was u16/u18 AAA

 

Id guess the bulk of those players are ending up in the CHL or USHL 

[MuddyInTheMiddle]

Now that the crazy season(evaluations time) is over, everyone land on the team that they wanted to?

[Puck Head]

So, when is everyone else doing tryouts? It seems to be getting earlier and earlier each year. 
I have high school kids who just finished AAA tryouts in Michigan (Little Ceasers and Victory Honda).

 

And girlfriends son (2010 birth year) just finished his USA district camp thing and has tryouts for AAA next week. 
 

Makes no sense to me 

[Albatrosss]

1 minute ago, Puck Head said:

So, when is everyone else doing tryouts? It seems to be getting earlier and earlier each year. 
I have high school kids who just finished AAA tryouts in Michigan (Little Ceasers and Victory Honda).

 

And girlfriends son (2010 birth year) just finished his USA district camp thing and has tryouts for AAA next week. 
 

Makes no sense to me 

tryouts in the spring never made sense to me.  What if the kid practices all summer, takes skating lessons, private lessons, etc?