confirmed: Rangers Trade Pavel Buchnevich to STL for Sammy Blais, 2022 2nd-Round Pick

Split it into top six depth and bottom six depth.

 

Top 6 - Kakko, Kravtsov, Gauthier, Pajuniemi

Bottom 6 - Goodrow (potentially), Blais, Rooney, Gettinger, Ronning, Rueschoff

 

We're fine here - maybe worth a flyer on a mid-six guy in UFA. Fair flags on Kakko and Kravtsov, sure, though the analytics guys love Kakko for a reason.

 

...ah fuck I just realized who the mid six UFA is.

Good point. Maybe they can get a scoring type on the cheap in free agency. Or more grit/leadership. Corey Perry? Bobby Ryan? Nick Foligno?

Anyone else kind of looking this as they traded:

 

Buch and a 7th

 

For

 

Blais, Goodrow, and a 2nd

 

Then extended Goodrow

 

That’s in a way the exchange they made.

Got 2 players to fill holes for the price of 1 where they are deeper.

 

And got a 2 next year too.

Nope. I see it as signing Goodrow using some of the money that should have been used to sign the player who has performed here.

Then absolutely dumping a known commodity to a team that has been tied to Buchnevich for a month or so.

All to get tougher. Ah well. Hope it works out. If not there's a better free agent class next offseason and hopefully scouting picks up, so they can make use of that 22 2nd rounder they just aquired.

Can't have a team of all goal scorers. Wouldn't be complaining if that 2nd was a 1st for 21' or 22' but it isnt.

Regardless, I dont hate the move especially with the talent we are developing on the wings. We have some legit cost controlled talent that needed room to grow. Players are like any other asset....only worth as much as someone is willing to pay.

Can't have a team of all goal scorers. Wouldn't be complaining if that 2nd was a 1st for 21' or 22' but it isnt.

 

Regardless, I dont hate the move especially with the talent we are developing on the wings. We have some legit cost controlled talent that needed room to grow. Players are like any other asset....only worth as much as someone is willing to pay.

Also can't have a roster of unproven rookies/ youngsters. I feel this is a bigger risk than many want to admit.

I'm bitching about it, yet I've been saying Kakko should be getting top 6 minutes. Nows his chance. I just have a feeling we will see Goodrow granted a top 6 wing role. Which I really don't want to see.

Who knows. Maybe they make a trade and get a rental, or sign someone cheaper for scoring support.

Nope. I see it as signing Goodrow using some of the money that should have been used to sign the player who has performed here.

 

Then absolutely dumping a known commodity to a team that has been tied to Buchnevich for a month or so.

 

All to get tougher. Ah well. Hope it works out. If not there's a better free agent class next offseason and hopefully scouting picks up, so they can make use of that 22 2nd rounder they just aquired.

It’s a basic 2 for 1.

Yes… the best player goes the other way. That’s the downside.

But if you kept him, who do you lose down the road as a result, cause you’re sacrificing someone. Just like we are sacrificing Buch now due to Kreider.

The upside is you fill 2 holes lower in the lineup. And do so for less money than Buch will get.

It’s a basic 2 for 1.

Yes… the best player goes the other way. That’s the downside.

But if you kept him, who do you lose down the road as a result, cause you’re sacrificing someone. Just like we are sacrificing Buch now due to Kreider.

 

The upside is you fill 2 holes lower in the lineup. And do so for less money than Buch will get.

If they were to sign Buch to a realistic deal in the 5.5- 6 range for 5 years, and don't pay Goodrow his 3.6, you really shouldn't have to lose anyone.

Goodrow at 3.6 million isn't a fit for the Lightning. Him at 3.6 anywhere isn't a fit (meaning a successful fit, not that someone else wouldn't pay him). They had success with him because he was making peanuts as a peanut player. People are insanely overvaluing what this guy brings to the table. Sure he brings 2 needs. But I sense massive disappointment in what he ultimately becomes. A 3.6 million 4th liner after they try plugging him in everywhere in the lineup. If they wanted guys like this, why did they never call up Beleskey? Because that's what this feels like. Paying a lower line guy for having mild TEAM success and expecting that exact result with a different group of players.

You can't do multiple trades and or free agent signings in a vacuum and claim the benefits.

Getting the rights to overpay Goodrow as a free agent was a direct cause of a money problem with signing your two way forward.

Spending that money as a must have on Goodrow is debatable. It's definitely not any kind of slam dunk. It's a pretty big risk actually.

Anyway, they DIDN'T get all that in trade for Buchnevich. They used that asset and got a 2nd rounder and a 4th line "energy player who scored in Jrs" aka Brendan Lemieux , but without the fighting....

This isn't like the formula you can use to excuse overpaying in trades that eventually brought the team a cup. This isn't Tony Amonte, Darren Turcotte and Doug Weight for a cup.

This is robbing Peter to shit in Paul's mouth.

The downside to your upside is you just lost a cog in the teams top line, because you wanted to pay a sparkplug from a defending SC champion. Trying to catch Lightning in a bottle. (YUCK!). AKA shitting in Paul's mouth..

We’ll see, some of us think we did sell for low. I’m not sure what the confusion is or all the emoji things are or what your problem is. I think Buchnevich was worth more even at his inflated stats than a role player and a 2nd.

Again look at all the trades going on around the league. It's uncharted territory with a flat cap and some teams would rather have space and others wanting to save real dollars. How many players moved in the last few days and we've said "is that all they got for him?"

If they were to sign Buch to a realistic deal in the 5.5- 6 range for 5 years, and don't pay Goodrow his 3.6, you really shouldn't have to lose anyone.

 

Goodrow at 3.6 million isn't a fit for the Lightning. Him at 3.6 anywhere isn't a fit (meaning a successful fit, not that someone else wouldn't pay him). They had success with him because he was making peanuts as a peanut player. People are insanely overvaluing what this guy brings to the table. Sure he brings 2 needs. But I sense massive disappointment in what he ultimately becomes. A 3.6 million 4th liner after they try plugging him in everywhere in the lineup. If they wanted guys like this, why did they never call up Beleskey? Because that's what this feels like. Paying a lower line guy for having mild TEAM success and expecting that exact result with a different group of players.

 

You can't do multiple trades and or free agent signings in a vacuum and claim the benefits.

 

Getting the rights to overpay Goodrow as a free agent was a direct cause of a money problem with signing your two way forward.

 

Spending that money as a must have on Goodrow is debatable. It's definitely not any kind of slam dunk. It's a pretty big risk actually.

 

Anyway, they DIDN'T get all that in trade for Buchnevich. They used that asset and got a 2nd rounder and a 4th line "energy player who scored in Jrs" aka Brendan Lemieux , but without the fighting....

 

This isn't like the formula you can use to excuse overpaying in trades that eventually brought the team a cup. This isn't Tony Amonte, Darren Turcotte and Doug Weight for a cup.

 

This is robbing Peter to shit in Paul's mouth.

 

The downside to your upside is you just lost a cog in the teams top line, because you wanted to pay a sparkplug from a defending SC champion. Trying to catch Lightning in a bottle. (YUCK!). AKA shitting in Paul's mouth..

I think you are overreacting to this. The Rangers as previously constructed were not a playoff team or even a remotely good team. They were a group of individual players that were less than the sum of their parts. You have MVP candidates in ZIb and Panarin playing on separate lines meaning you have 2 high scoring lines. You have a Norris Trophy winning defenseman and an above average good young goalie. There are not many teams that can boast such things yet this team is still a bad hockey team. Mainly because their bottom 6 has zero identity or purpose. It's a wasteland for experiments, punishment, and round pieces trying to be rammed into square holes. Thus this team is only that in name only. There was zero identity and while yes they have overpaid they are finally trying to resemble an actual NHL hockey team. The plan in my opinion is a good one. Hopefully they have identified the right guys Goodrow and Blais, to help establish the identity they have been missing. I think we all need to see how this shakes out. I also think that Buch getting paid could totally blowup in the Blues faces. He's been inconsistent, maddeningly so, for all of his career until this year of 50 games. I think it was wise to avoid that risk.

The gamble is this; Will Buch continue the trajectory towards becoming a consistent league scorer with a side of grit?

While he was a Ranger, of course us fans thought and hoped so because that was his developmental trend line. Now that he's gone? I think he gives STL a year's teaser look at what he can become but I think he returns to enigma form once the adrenaline calms down.

Let's face it too. Does Lemieux even get the opportunities he gets if not for his daddy? He's just an awful awful version of him.

Someone said it, thank you. Guy is not good.

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I think you are overreacting to this. The Rangers as previously constructed were not a playoff team or even a remotely good team. They were a group of individual players that were less than the sum of their parts. You have MVP candidates in ZIb and Panarin playing on separate lines meaning you have 2 high scoring lines. You have a Norris Trophy winning defenseman and an above average good young goalie. There are not many teams that can boast such things yet this team is still a bad hockey team. Mainly because their bottom 6 has zero identity or purpose. It's a wasteland for experiments, punishment, and round pieces trying to be rammed into square holes. Thus this team is only that in name only. There was zero identity and while yes they have overpaid they are finally trying to resemble an actual NHL hockey team. The plan in my opinion is a good one. Hopefully they have identified the right guys Goodrow and Blais, to help establish the identity they have been missing. I think we all need to see how this shakes out. I also think that Buch getting paid could totally blowup in the Blues faces. He's been inconsistent, maddeningly so, for all of his career until this year of 50 games. I think it was wise to avoid that risk.

Yep - I think that's right. I do think Buchnevich is a damn good player and he's going to THRIVE with guys like O'Reilly though.

At the end of the day, I think the question we need answered is "Can Kakko and Kravtsov replace Buchnevich's production?" I'm inclined to believe that with ice time and special teams, that's doable.

I think you are overreacting to this. The Rangers as previously constructed were not a playoff team or even a remotely good team. They were a group of individual players that were less than the sum of their parts. You have MVP candidates in ZIb and Panarin playing on separate lines meaning you have 2 high scoring lines. You have a Norris Trophy winning defenseman and an above average good young goalie. There are not many teams that can boast such things yet this team is still a bad hockey team. Mainly because their bottom 6 has zero identity or purpose. It's a wasteland for experiments, punishment, and round pieces trying to be rammed into square holes. Thus this team is only that in name only. There was zero identity and while yes they have overpaid they are finally trying to resemble an actual NHL hockey team. The plan in my opinion is a good one. Hopefully they have identified the right guys Goodrow and Blais, to help establish the identity they have been missing. I think we all need to see how this shakes out. I also think that Buch getting paid could totally blowup in the Blues faces. He's been inconsistent, maddeningly so, for all of his career until this year of 50 games. I think it was wise to avoid that risk.

Meh. They were a playoff team prior to covid. They were hot and they were clicking on all cylinders, getting contributions from up and down the roster.

Going into this season, with a shortened camp and a brutal start with a top player being waived, I think did more harm than people think. We saw a roster tune out the coach. We saw a coach fighting for his job because of that. That locker room was a mess and it wasn't caused solely by him who won't be spoken of. The line shuffling had to impact the bottom 6. Nevermind the tired lack of a game plan. Another coach and some small tinkering with the bottom 6 would have been just fine for this team.

A Goodrow for Buchnevich swap really irks me. I'm not sure I believe in the player just yet. I don't think he's all that people are making him out to be.

This Tom Wilson thing really has people exaggerating the need to bring in grit. Using examples of how players acquired were these integral contributors because they got an upswing in minutes during the finals or playing a couple shifts on a top line on a cup winner... i myself feel that fans are reaching.

You win with talent and you can't replace talent easily. BUT a coach like Gallant CAN make use of any style player especially bottom line players.

I don't think a team should ever put a premium on acquiring and paying top dollar for the types the Rangers have brought in. Especially not at the cost of talent and not in the off season

But I guess that depends on what you think Buchnevich is or is going to be. I think he turned that corner and is more than just a complimentary player that gets his points mooching of his linemates.

He was doing more on his own and really started making things happen without Zib OR Kreider. Zib got back on track or hot at the tail end of the season and Kreider did the Kreider thing. No showed to start and then went on his dominant tear for a few weeks, only to disappear and then suffer an injury.. Buch kept pace all season really, and it wasn't really much due to his linemates. He did play with Panarin here and there, but again, it wasn't like he relied on his linemates for everything.

With direction and a good team here or in St Louis, Buchnevich would have and will continue to become a very respectable top 6 forward and I really don't think he will break 6 mill and 5 years.

Not sure we can call Buchnevich inconsistent. Wimpy and disappointing with his body language maybe... He's pretty much improved every year and wound up being a much more well-rounded player than I think anyone would have expected. I don't think that changes if he were here or as he goes there. I honestly think he may become a very much missed player. A definite future head scratcher, in which we wonder why the Rangers couldn't keep him.

Yep - I think that's right. I do think Buchnevich is a damn good player and he's going to THRIVE with guys like O'Reilly though.

 

At the end of the day, I think the question we need answered is "Can Kakko and Kravtsov replace Buchnevich's production?" I'm inclined to believe that with ice time and special teams, that's doable.

A few things to remember, and Pete sort of touched in these.

Buchnevich’s productions was without #1 PP time.

His production was without a C does the first half.

And without a LW for the second half.

It seems replicating the first lines production is achievable. Having someone put up the same stats isn’t necessary, though. The combined points per game from RWers wasn’t much. Just over a PPG. You should be able to get a 50, 40’and 30 pt winger, plus a 4th liner. Even more if someone gets PP time.

A few things to remember, and Pete sort of touched in these.

Buchnevich’s productions was without #1 PP time.

His production was without a C does the first half.

And without a LW for the second half.

 

It seems replicating the first lines production is achievable. Having someone put up the same stats isn’t necessary, though. The combined points per game from RWers wasn’t much. Just over a PPG. You should be able to get a 50, 40’and 30 pt winger, plus a 4th liner. Even more if someone gets PP time.

Yup - that's my point as well. Our RWs haven't really been contributors aside from Buch - asking our guys to fill the void? Great.

I had to read all these posts since Friday when I split out early....but I gotta say my first reaction was the same as a lot of you guys, and I was expecting a little more for Buch...(actually I wanted Greenway, but that shit ain't happenin' Ozz!! ;))

But after a few days I'm thinking there's probably more to this, and most teams aren't getting a whole lot for their trades either....Ghost got dealt for less than expected to me as well, as an example. The second rounder is good for our pocket down the stretch for a deadline deal, and Blais is a solid piece that meshes well with "checking the boxes" we were looking for with grit.

I just think that there's another shoe that's going to drop, and this may have helped cleared the way for it. We shall see....

I'm also curious to see how Buch plays in St. Louis. I think he's going to be really good there, and should be super with all those experienced guys around him.

The Rangers probably think that either Kakko or Kravtsov develop into a more productive player than Buch on lower contracts in the near term, when playing top line minutes. Buch was around 65 points over 82 games when you combine the past two season and project those 120 or so games down. Perhaps they feel one of those two RW can be a point per game player or better.

Buch at 26 has developed into what he is now, which is still a bit of an unknown in a complete season (thanks COVID). The nightmare scenario is signing him to something like $6M x 7 with some trade protection and then he settles back down to a 50ish point player. Now you've got two long term wing contracts with young players nipping at their heels.

The return is the only real question for me. But it's always so easy to say you could have gotten more because you don't have to prove it. We don't know what the market is for him now, or what it might be in the near (before training camp) or further (trade deadline) future.

If Drury has other moves to make but kept Buch to get into summer cushion money, then he's lost significant leverage in a deal. As free agency and trades move other teams forward, some will take themselves out of the running for him as a player. If Buch signed a one year deal and struggles, getting surpassed by kids, then perhaps he isn't moveable at the deadline even, eventually walking as a UFA for nothing.

I'm assuming Drury wanted clarity in his cap situation to navigate the rest of the off season. I don't think for a second Drury had better offers for Buch but decided to take the Blues offer because...reasons.

I'll evaluate this off season as a whole when we get to opening day. I won't know until season's end and possibly beyond whether even that evaluation is accurate.

The Rangers probably think that either Kakko or Kravtsov develop into a more productive player than Buch on lower contracts in the near term, when playing top line minutes. Buch was around 65 points over 82 games when you combine the past two season and project those 120 or so games down. Perhaps they feel one of those two RW can be a point per game player or better.

 

Buch at 26 has developed into what he is now, which is still a bit of an unknown in a complete season (thanks COVID). The nightmare scenario is signing him to something like $6M x 7 with some trade protection and then he settles back down to a 50ish point player. Now you've got two long term wing contracts with young players nipping at their heels.

 

The return is the only real question for me. But it's always so easy to say you could have gotten more because you don't have to prove it. We don't know what the market is for him now, or what it might be in the near (before training camp) or further (trade deadline) future.

 

If Drury has other moves to make but kept Buch to get into summer cushion money, then he's lost significant leverage in a deal. As free agency and trades move other teams forward, some will take themselves out of the running for him as a player. If Buch signed a one year deal and struggles, getting surpassed by kids, then perhaps he isn't moveable at the deadline even, eventually walking as a UFA for nothing.

 

I'm assuming Drury wanted clarity in his cap situation to navigate the rest of the off season. I don't think for a second Drury had better offers for Buch but decided to take the Blues offer because...reasons.

 

I'll evaluate this off season as a whole when we get to opening day. I won't know until season's end and possibly beyond whether even that evaluation is accurate.

Pretty spot on, AJ! I think you hit the nail on the head with what I bolded above. He IS a bit of an unknown. He could explode over there, or he could back down to a 50 point guy. He's not even signed yet, but I certainly am curious to see how much StL gives him....and how many years. But I think you're right, Drury needs a little breathing room and I don't think he wanted to roll the dice on Buch and lose him for nothing.

Pretty spot on, AJ! I think you hit the nail on the head with what I bolded above. He IS a bit of an unknown. He could explode over there, or he could back down to a 50 point guy. He's not even signed yet, but I certainly am curious to see how much StL gives him....and how many years. But I think you're right, Drury needs a little breathing room and I don't think he wanted to roll the dice on Buch and lose him for nothing.

It doesn't matter. Only matters what Kakko and Kravtsov do.

The worst thing any Rangers fan can do is look at Blais' stats mid year and say "This is all we got? Buch has 35 points right now and Blais has 12".

That's not how this shit works.

Buch could be great with ROR, who knows?

 

It doesn't matter. Only matters what Kakko and Kravtsov do.

 

The worst thing any Rangers fan can do is look at Blais' stats mid year and say "This is all we got? Buch has 35 points right now and Blais has 12".

 

That's not how this shit works.

Exactly, Pete! We needed to create another way to attack a team, both offensively, defensively, and intimidation wise. This team has plenty of firepower...TONS...we've added grinders, and size up front...also now with Nemeth on the back end. Buch was destined to hit the bricks I feel after we signed Kreider to his deal, and lucked into Kakko and Yukon (God, I love that nickname!! LOL).

Buch I think was the perfect bargaining chip, at the perfect time used to acquire a player that continues to bring the missing ingredient to this mix. I always say, "It can't be all vodka, dude!! You gotta have some club soda and a splash of Pomegranate" :cheers:

We can always say we shouldda got more...ahhh, fuck it...we got a solid piece and a pretty good pick for a guy who could've been a risky question mark....I hope Buch does well though. He gave us a good run here!

The St. Louis Blues signed newly acquired forward Pavel Buchnevich to a four-year, $23.2 million contract, the team announced Tuesday.

That's the price most people thought he would get. Too expensive for the Rangers over the next few years as they need cap to sign their other young players. I do wish Buch well, except when he plays against the Rangers. :-)

How shitty is the kreider deal now...granted, its partly monday morning qbing, cause if we didnt have laf, he might be an important peace. But who knows what we wouldve got for him at the deadline that season. Buch is the better player now, imo, and with more potential down the road.

If they had Buchnevich over Kreider, they’d have to overspend on an equivalent on FA market, and probably not get one of the best net font guys while doing so

We’ll complain about the Kreider contract but not until he’s expendable, and right now, he’s the opposite.

Link:

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Love this. Love 90s numbers.