confirmed: Rangers Trade Pavel Buchnevich to STL for Sammy Blais, 2022 2nd-Round Pick

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

We shouldn't look at this as Buch for Blais and a 2nd without knowing what we're getting next with Buch cap space.

 

Look at all the trades going down over the last 2 days, it's obvious cap/salary is an issue for everybody.

 

You'd think a healthy Zib, full season of Panarin, development of Kakko, Krav and Laf more than make up for Buch.

 

The Rangers played this by the book. They took an RFA with arbitration rights and gave him all the ice time in the world... And he overachieved and they sold high. They know who he is.

 

And look, if he doesn't sign for term in STL then bring him back as a UFA at what 28?

 

I wouldn’t agree that they sold high. I totally agree with your first point though. We can’t judge this trade in vacuum. What happens over the next few days and into FA will tell us more

 

My only concern is that this trade could’ve waited. The only reason you make this deal right before the draft is if you think you’re getting a day 1 draft piece (first rounder) or making room for a bigger deal (eichel)

 

Neither of which happened. If you offer this trade to St. Louis in a few days they accept. Unless they had some other irons in the fire. I guess we can’t really know.

 

Still. I don’t think this is a ‘sold high’ rather than a made space and (so far) haven’t gotten anything to fill it.

[Keirik]

If they resign him, and expect to make they playoffs, then they wouldn't trade him at the deadline. And if they did it would be for a rental like Cally for St. Louis.

 

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Sure they would. If they weren’t signing him they’d still trade him. It was about to happen with Kreider before deciding to resign him instead. It absolutely happens in the NHL. And if it were a rental like MSL I’d be fine with that too if it helped us in the playoffs like Marty did. Currently they traded for an oft injured bottom 6 guy that is rfa next year too and a 2nd rounder in 22. That isn’t exactly a return you couldn’t walk away from.

 

Put it this way. Last year they traded Brendan Lemieux for a 4th rounder. This year they traded Buchnevich to obtain Brendan Lemieux under another name back and a 2nd rounder. That’s about as weak of a return as you can get. I’m sort of giving Drury a pass but it’s not like Drury wasn’t here last year as assistant GM, so I imagine he was part of talks as well last year. Just an example of poor management. Hopefully it’s not a trend.

[Pete]

I wouldn’t agree that they sold high. I totally agree with your first point though. We can’t judge this trade in vacuum. What happens over the next few days and into FA will tell us more

 

My only concern is that this trade could’ve waited. The only reason you make this deal right before the draft is if you think you’re getting a day 1 draft piece (first rounder) or making room for a bigger deal (eichel)

 

Neither of which happened. If you offer this trade to St. Louis in a few days they accept. Unless they had some other irons in the fire. I guess we can’t really know.

 

Still. I don’t think this is a ‘sold high’ rather than a made space and (so far) haven’t gotten anything to fill it.

How did they not sell high after a career year?

 

His value has never been higher.

[LindG1000]

When are we flipping this pick to Seattle for Vince Dunn?

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

How did they not sell high after a career year?

 

His value has never been higher.

 

They sold when his value is high.

 

They didn’t get high value for him. In my opinion at least

 

Especially considering what the trade market was like yesterday.

 

An almost PPG player who also kills penalties, even as an RFA with arb rights, you expect to get more that what they did.

 

But like I said, to echo your first point, trade can’t be judged in a vacuum yet.

[Keirik]

How did they not sell high after a career year?

 

His value has never been higher.

Doesn’t selling high indicate you got a high return for an asset that might have an inflated value and will never be better? The return we got isn’t high at all. If a 1st were involved then we basically were talking about the Kevin Hayes trade which I’d then agree we sold high.

[Long live the King]

Sure they would. If they weren’t signing him they’d still trade him. It was about to happen with Kreider before deciding to resign him instead. It absolutely happens in the NHL. And if it were a rental like MSL I’d be fine with that too if it helped us in the playoffs like Marty did. Currently they traded for an oft injured bottom 6 guy that is rfa next year too and a 2nd rounder in 22. That isn’t exactly a return you couldn’t walk away from.

 

Put it this way. Last year they traded Brendan Lemieux for a 4th rounder. This year they traded Buchnevich to obtain Brendan Lemieux under another name back and a 2nd rounder. That’s about as weak of a return as you can get. I’m sort of giving Drury a pass but it’s not like Drury wasn’t here last year as assistant GM, so I imagine he was part of talks as well last year. Just an example of poor management. Hopefully it’s not a trend.

 

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[Keirik]

 

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What is he going to say? I get his reasons. That still doesn’t make the return any better though.

[BrooksBurner]

We shouldn't look at this as Buch for Blais and a 2nd without knowing what we're getting next with Buch cap space.

 

Look at all the trades going down over the last 2 days, it's obvious cap/salary is an issue for everybody.

 

You'd think a healthy Zib, full season of Panarin, development of Kakko, Krav and Laf more than make up for Buch.

 

The Rangers played this by the book. They took an RFA with arbitration rights and gave him all the ice time in the world... And he overachieved and they should sell high. They know who he is.

 

And look, if he doesn't sign for term in STL then bring him back as a UFA at what 28?

 

There's another guy on the roster who fits this description to a T, but I can't quite put my finger on it.

[Pete]

They sold when his value is high.

 

They didn’t get high value for him. In my opinion at least

 

Especially considering what the trade market was like yesterday.

 

An almost PPG player who also kills penalties, even as an RFA with arb rights, you expect to get more that what they did.

 

But like I said, to echo your first point, trade can’t be judged in a vacuum yet.

Doesn’t selling high indicate you got a high return for an asset that might have an inflated value and will never be better? The return we got isn’t high at all. If a 1st were involved then we basically were talking about the Kevin Hayes trade which I’d then agree we sold high.

No guys, selling high means you sell when the stock is at its highest... Given the way we've seen trades shake out over the last day or two, I'm not so sure this wasn't the best return

[Keirik]

No guys, selling high means you sell when the stock is at its highest... Given the way we've seen trades shake out over the last day or two, I'm not so sure this wasn't the best return

 

LOL no it's not. It's getting thr best return on your asset. If yiu sell a stock high, it's giving you the most money back. You don't sell high for pennies on the dollar

[Gravesy]

Doesn’t selling high indicate you got a high return for an asset that might have an inflated value and will never be better? The return we got isn’t high at all. If a 1st were involved then we basically were talking about the Kevin Hayes trade which I’d then agree we sold high.

 

I mean, place the boot on the other foot.

How would you feel if the Rangers traded for a guy who's blown hot and cold for his entire career, had a bit of a career year in his RFA season and gave up a big return in addition to having to sign the guy to a multi year deal at a high aav? All the while knowing that it was unlikely the selling team was unlikely to be able to hold on to said player? You probably wouldn't love it. This is a classic example of over rating our own players imo. The return isn't mind blowing, but it's fine, makes sense from a roster construction perspective and opens up cap space for other moves down the line.

[Pete]

LOL no it's not. It's getting thr best return on your asset. If yiu sell a stock high, it's giving you the most money back. You don't sell high for pennies on the dollar

We didn't sell for pennies. Check the other trades happening around the league. LOL LMAO ROFL hahahaha [emoji38][emoji23] hurdur rur.

 

The league and the Rangers know who Buch is. Look for another 50ish point year next year.

[Keirik]

We didn't sell for pennies. Check the other trades happening around the league. LOL LMAO ROFL hahahaha [emoji38][emoji23] hurdur rur.

 

The league and the Rangers know who Buch is. Look for another 50ish point year next year.

 

We’ll see, some of us think we did sell for low. I’m not sure what the confusion is or all the emoji things are or what your problem is. I think Buchnevich was worth more even at his inflated stats than a role player and a 2nd.

[RangersIn7]

Anyone else kind of looking this as they traded:

 

Buch and a 7th

 

For

 

Blais, Goodrow, and a 2nd

 

Then extended Goodrow

 

That’s in a way the exchange they made.

Got 2 players to fill holes for the price of 1 where they are deeper.

 

And got a 2 next year too.

[Keirik]

I mean, place the boot on the other foot.

How would you feel if the Rangers traded for a guy who's blown hot and cold for his entire career, had a bit of a career year in his RFA season and gave up a big return in addition to having to sign the guy to a multi year deal at a high aav? All the while knowing that it was unlikely the selling team was unlikely to be able to hold on to said player? You probably wouldn't love it. This is a classic example of over rating our own players imo. The return isn't mind blowing, but it's fine, makes sense from a roster construction perspective and opens up cap space for other moves down the line.

 

Well, I don’t agree with that. I’m not saying Buch was an elite player but I’m not so sure he isn’t worth more. There also was no rush. At worst, he goes to arb on a one year deal and this gets revisited during the trade deadline. They have the cap this year. Trade deadline he likely brings more. At worst he brings the same. Blais isn’t some must have piece. He’s got a history of injuries and is a middling NHLer we are valuing more because we want effective grit after trading ineffective grit in Lemieux that was as effective as Blais. Does that stunt the growth of say, Kravtsov? Possibly. That was something that should have been talked about last deadline though, not this offseason since a team likely overpays a bit more making a cup run than now.

[RangersIn7]

Well, I don’t agree with that. I’m not saying Buch was an elite player but I’m not so sure he isn’t worth more. There also was no rush. At worst, he goes to arb on a one year deal and this gets revisited during the trade deadline. They have the cap this year. Trade deadline he likely brings more. At worst he brings the same. Blais isn’t some must have piece. He’s got a history of injuries and is a middling NHLer we are valuing more because we want effective grit after trading ineffective grit in Lemieux that was as effective as Blais. Does that stunt the growth of say, Kravtsov? Possibly. That was something that should have been talked about last deadline though, not this offseason since a team likely overpays a bit more making a cup run than now.

 

Moving Buchnevich actually frees ice time up for Kakko and Kravtsov.

[Capt]

Anyone else kind of looking this as they traded:

 

Buch and a 7th

 

For

 

Blais, Goodrow, and a 2nd

 

Then extended Goodrow

 

That’s in a way the exchange they made.

Got 2 players to fill holes for the price of 1 where they are deeper.

 

And got a 2 next year too.

I think you can make an argument for that for sure. The Cap isn't exactly new. I'm not sure why it's hard to understand that every dollar spent has an effect on every other player on the team. You can't pay everyone, just as you can't give everyone top 6 minutes. At some point the GM has to decide who gets those roles and gets paid. Buch was obviously not the guy.

[Keirik]

Moving Buchnevich actually frees ice time up for Kakko and Kravtsov.

 

Right. Kakko earned that regardless of Buch and losing Blackwell likely elevated Kaapo even if Artemi didn’t want him on his line. Kravtsov had a good handful of games here but new coach, new system, new year, etc doesn’t automatically mean he is going to be successful and we were looking specifically to take the step into playoffs next year and take strides forward, not sideways. Look, I’m not saying this is the end all be all trade but I still don’t think this specifically was a needle moving move or an offer that was just too good to pass up. This same type of deal at worst likely would have been available all season.

[Gravesy]

Well, I don’t agree with that. I’m not saying Buch was an elite player but I’m not so sure he isn’t worth more. There also was no rush. At worst, he goes to arb on a one year deal and this gets revisited during the trade deadline. They have the cap this year. Trade deadline he likely brings more. At worst he brings the same. Blais isn’t some must have piece. He’s got a history of injuries and is a middling NHLer we are valuing more because we want effective grit after trading ineffective grit in Lemieux that was as effective as Blais. Does that stunt the growth of say, Kravtsov? Possibly. That was something that should have been talked about last deadline though, not this offseason since a team likely overpays a bit more making a cup run than now.

 

I’m not sure what you’re disagreeing with. Buch either needs to be re signed or seen as a one year rental. That impacts what teams are going to be willing to pay for him. I don’t know what you expected to get for him, but a guy like Buch in his situation isn’t a hot commodity.

I completely disagree with the idea that Lemieux and Blais are equals. BL wouldn’t have seen a sliver of ice during the Blues cup run.

[Capt]

I’m not sure what you’re disagreeing with. Buch either needs to be re signed or seen as a one year rental. That impacts what teams are going to be willing to pay for him. I don’t know what you expected to get for him, but a guy like Buch in his situation isn’t a hot commodity.

I completely disagree with the idea that Lemieux and Blais are equals. BL wouldn’t have seen a sliver of ice during the Blues cup run.

 

Let's face it too. Does Lemieux even get the opportunities he gets if not for his daddy? He's just an awful awful version of him.

[Keirik]

I’m not sure what you’re disagreeing with. Buch either needs to be re signed or seen as a one year rental. That impacts what teams are going to be willing to pay for him. I don’t know what you expected to get for him, but a guy like Buch in his situation isn’t a hot commodity.

I completely disagree with the idea that Lemieux and Blais are equals. BL wouldn’t have seen a sliver of ice during the Blues cup run.

 

The Blues are one of the older/more experienced teams in the league I believe and are not exactly rebuilding. If he was so vital to their cup run, surely they keep him on a team that isn’t in full rebuild and on the older side looking for a second cup. I think we are getting a bit out of hand with his cup contributions. He played some role but he wasn’t a vital cog. Hell, 3 games in the finals against the Bruins he played 6-8 minutes. I get we want to project to make this trade seem better but I just believe we mismanaged this one and lost this trade. It is what it is. If we use this extra cap space and package a guy like a Strome (even though I like him) for an upgrade then this makes sense but I don’t see how we do that with the upcoming cap in future years.

 

In a standalone trade, Buch not netting more futures is a fail to me.

[RangersIn7]

Right. Kakko earned that regardless of Buch and losing Blackwell likely elevated Kaapo even if Artemi didn’t want him on his line. Kravtsov had a good handful of games here but new coach, new system, new year, etc doesn’t automatically mean he is going to be successful and we were looking specifically to take the step into playoffs next year and take strides forward, not sideways. Look, I’m not saying this is the end all be all trade but I still don’t think this specifically was a needle moving move or an offer that was just too good to pass up. This same type of deal at worst likely would have been available all season.

 

I agree with that for the most part.

As for Kravtsov, it doesn’t mean any of that, but unless he gets ice time, you’ll never know.

 

Still think it’s a trade that’s:

A) viewed more by the organization as Buch and a 7 for Blais, Goodrow, and a 2

B) a precursor to another, bigger trade

[RangersIn7]

I think you can make an argument for that for sure. The Cap isn't exactly new. I'm not sure why it's hard to understand that every dollar spent has an effect on every other player on the team. You can't pay everyone, just as you can't give everyone top 6 minutes. At some point the GM has to decide who gets those roles and gets paid. Buch was obviously not the guy.

 

I think they like Buch, but his being dealt is a direct result of 2 things.

Kreider’s contract and lucking out on LaFreniere

 

Drury actually did a smart thing.

Got 2 guys who help his bottom-6 where it’s desperately needed for the same or less money than Buch will likely make at a position where they have plenty. And he cleared up potential ice time for Kakko and Kravtsov at RW.

[The Dude]

I think you have to split all of this out.

 

Is there an upcoming cap problem? Yeah - we've known this for years. Drury reprising his Captain Obvious role here.

Would Buchnevich's contract demands have been onerous? TBD - but I'd think adding 6m+ in cap would at least be problematic.

Is Buchnevich the odd man out in the top 6? Probably - Panarin, Laf, Kakko are here for the long haul. That fourth spot is Buch, Kreider, or Kravtsov - too many cooks in that kitchen. Again - this makes sense, even if Kravtsov may not quite yet be ready.

Is Buchnevich or Kreider a fit in the bottom 6? Buchnevich is wasted there. Kreider....yeah, kinda. You can see a Kreider-Goodrow-X line being pretty much exactly what we want it to be.

Is Blais a fit? Yeah, he plays the game we want to play and he plays it well.

Is a 2nd rounder a good piece? Absolutely. Basic trade currency at the TDL.

 

Is Blais and a 2nd enough for Buchnevich? No. That's the rub here. Another 2nd, or a prospect add, or even an okay add on our end to make it Blais and a 1st and I think I would be okay with this.

 

Your last part is what I'm saying. It's not enough, and to shrug it off like it's just making cap room is what gets me. I understand why he was dealt. Whether I agree with the reason is another story. But day one of moves and they dumped him. Absolutely dumped him. Future cap problems be damned. This wasn't getting value. If he turned around and brought in someone making big bucks, I'd get that. But to say there isn't enough cap space, when there is atleast for another year plus, AND your depth has not proven a damn thing in this league yet. He's banking really hard on Kakko and Kravtsov to play up to the ability Buchnevich has been.

 

I guess that's good for those of us who bitch about Kakko not getting the correct opportunity, but man. He's leaving zero room for error.

 

I feel this was rushed as many pieces around the league have yet to fall into place. If this money they claim they need goes to yet another bottom 6 player and not Landeskog, the Rangers are treading on the verge of taking a huge step backwards.

 

What I'm hoping to see though, is with these acquisitions of bottom line players who are to be hard to play against as well as having a special teams role.. that we see less of our skill players killing penalties.

 

Goodrow and Rooney being the centers on a PK unit SHOULD eliminate the need to have Zibanejad out there risking his body. Some disagree with that take, but I feel that it may keep him and others fresher and more healthy.