State of the Union: Rangers Edition (Post Trade Deadline)

[RichieNextel305]

Figured I would start up a discussion on the team we are going to roll with the rest of the way.

 

As for todays activity with the Trade Deadline, I will say this. I get people trying to relate these moves to 2 years ago. But the thing is Copp made sense, Vatrano was a buy-low, shoot-first player who made sense and Braun was just a depth guy. Perhaps Wennberg could play the role of Copp, but I don’t think Roslovic can play the role of Vatrano. I get people on both sides both overwhelmed and content. But I’m in the middle. I think Drury throwing his hat in the ring on Guentzel shows that he believed there was a need there. And after missing him, there was really no going back on Vatrano.

 

Personally, I’m upset we didn’t take a swing at getting Duclair. For what he went for, and for the need we had, I would have preferred going that route and getting someone who is hot and cold (and while cold really doesn’t do much). But at least he scores goals. We needed someone that could score, and we really didn’t accomplish that goal.

 

I mean, I don’t mind Roslovic as a player. I think he’s a good player overall, and someone who does more when he isn’t scoring than Duclair probably. But, in 2022 we went after our needs. We needed a depth guy like Copp; Vatrano, even if he didn’t score 8 goals in 22 games, was a guy who was a scorer. Wennberg? That one I get. The more I think of Roslovic, it screams almost panic move by Drury. I respect the move for Guentzel, but after that failed and you knew Anaheim wasn’t lowering its demands for Vatrano, I think Duclair should have been the immediate pivot.

Edited March 9 by RichieNextel305

[Pete]

IMO for a team like the Rangers the deadline is successful if:

The team is better than pre deadline

They didn't turn over a ton of the roster and fuck your chemistry up

They retained as many of their best prospects as they could while addressing your needs

 

They did all that. Carolina took too many risks, IMO. Same with Colorado. They address needs but there's a lot of new faces there now. 

 

I can see being upset they didn't get Guentzel but that doesn't mean the guys they added aren't going to help. 

 

Sorry I'm but I am not trading Kakko, Othmann, or Perrault for rentals. 

 

And I don't see how a conditional 4th is a panic move. It's a buy low on a guy with upside. He's never played on a team this good. 

[RichieNextel305]

17 minutes ago, Pete said:

IMO for a team like the Rangers the deadline is successful if:

The team is better than pre deadline

They didn't turn over a ton of the roster and fuck your chemistry up

They retained as many of their best prospects as they could while addressing your needs

 

They did all that. Carolina took too many risks, IMO. Same with Colorado. They address needs but there's a lot of new faces there now. 

 

I can see being upset they didn't get Guentzel but that doesn't mean the guys they added aren't going to help. 

 

Sorry I'm but I am not trading Kakko, Othmann, or Perrault for rentals. 

 

And I don't see how a conditional 4th is a panic move. It's a buy low on a guy with upside. He's never played on a team this good. 

IMO, because it happened so late, with almost no options left, so he got who he could get with upside. I’m not knocking Roslovic. I just don’t see as natural of a fit for him here as someone like Duclair.

 

I’m not upset with what down with Guentzel. He took a swing, it is what it is. I’m content there.

 

I’m perplexed why the pivot then wasn’t someone Duclair, who actually answers some of the questions we have, as opposed to Roslovic, who may or may not.

 

Again, I like him as a player. I’m just confused by the approach after we missed on Guentzel and after having a firm idea that Vatrano was very unlikely.

Edited March 9 by RichieNextel305

[Pete]

1 minute ago, RichieNextel305 said:

IMO, because it happened so late, with almost no options left, so he got who he could get with upside. I’m not knocking Roslovic. I just don’t see as natural of a fit for him here as someone like Duclair.

Gotcha.

 

For me, panic would be if he offered the same package to CBJ for Roslovic as he did for Guentzel LOL. 

[RJWantsTheCup]

The team is better after the trade deadline but it only seems marginally better.  Drury didn’t trade any top prospects or the number one to better the team which is definitely a plus.  But he really didn’t address the need for a top 6 RW.  Hopefully Roslovic can fill the void but he’s never been much of a goal scorer. Time will tell how successful this deadline is but I can see why people are disappointed 

Edited March 9 by RJWantsTheCup

[Kevin]

6 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said:

IMO, because it happened so late, with almost no options left, so he got who he could get with upside. I’m not knocking Roslovic. I just don’t see as natural of a fit for him here as someone like Duclair.

I actually think Roslovic is a much better fit for this team than Duclair and a better overall player. You can move roslovic all over the lineup and he can help. He was even killing penalties for CBJ.  Duclair, like you mentioned, is a one trick pony.  I haven’t checked what his stats are but historically it’s harder to score in the postseason. I know roslovic will still contribute if he’s not scoring.

[RichieNextel305]

2 minutes ago, Kevin said:

I actually think Roslovic is a much better fit for this team than Duclair and a better overall player. You can move roslovic all over the lineup and he can help. He was even killing penalties for CBJ.  Duclair, like you mentioned, is a one trick pony.  I haven’t checked what his stats are but historically it’s harder to score in the postseason. I know roslovic will still contribute if he’s not scoring.

I agree with what you said. I like the fact Roslovic can move around.

 

But in regard to what you said about Duclair and him being a one-trick pony, I’d say that one trick is kind of what we went into the deadline on the prowl for, no? That’s where my concern lies.

[BrooksBurner]

I said it all summer that I think they need more shock treatment to the roster, and that hasn't changed based on what I have seen this season. My ideal scenario for the deadline was for a hockey trade or two. Something that had at least a chance to make them significantly better this year, but almost certainly better in future years. Ala Colorado's moves. My "OK I can stomach that" scenario was a cheap, minor facelift to keep most fans happy without expending assets that are better saved for a legitimate long term move later. That's where this deadline falls. He didn't mess it up from a long term view, and that's good enough for me.

 

[Vodka Drunkenski]

Shock treatment trades rarely happen at the deadlines. They are saved for the offseason.

[RichieNextel305]

I don’t think Duclair could be deemed as a shock value trade though, right?

[BrooksBurner]

5 minutes ago, Vodka Drunkenski said:

Shock treatment trades rarely happen at the deadlines. They are saved for the offseason.

This is true, but it does happen. It just did. Is it guaranteed to significantly boost Colorado this year? No, but I think they can look back and consider their roster in better shape for next year, and no worse shape for this year.

[delneggs]

I think Drury looked at the team and decided to have faith in them based on how they have played all year.  Chytil went down in game 10 and that was a big loss for the group, but they didn't miss a beat and have been in 1st in the Metro all year. Igor had a poor first half by his standards and they still didn't miss a beat. Kakko hasn't been as productive as he should, and same for Mika, yet they are still in 1st place in the Metro.  They had some really bad games and a bad stretch in Dec/Jan, but they have also beat very good teams along the way and are still one of the best teams point wise in the league.  What is wrong with a GM looking at all that and deciding to augment the group, plug some holes, get some depth and then give them a chance to show what they can do?  He got some good solid players and didn't give up anything very significant in the process.  I think that's a win.  Now it's on this core to get it done.  If they get knocked out in round one again, then it's time for some real changes and at least Drury will have his 1st round picks and all the young talent still in house.    

Edited March 9 by delneggs
Added

[Vodka Drunkenski]

16 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

This is true, but it does happen. It just did. Is it guaranteed to significantly boost Colorado this year? No, but I think they can look back and consider their roster in better shape for next year, and no worse shape for this year.

Idk, I don’t consider that a shock trade

[Keirik]

18 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said:

I don’t think Duclair could be deemed as a shock value trade though, right?

Duclair has been trash all year. He decided to start playing about two weeks ago. I don't trust him one bit. I'm not in love with this deadline but let's not make it out like Duclair was a big miss. He's as likely to fizzle as he is to fizz. The miss was Tarasenko but it seems like he was never an option (and likely never informed the Sens of his only destination until very recently since this seemed very quiet.)

 

  Overall, this deadline to me was two fold, and both as a win win for us. 
 

1. We didn't do anything stupid. We still have our roster, we still have our talent, and we still have our prospects. That's gigantic. 
 

2. I think Drury is looking at this season as one last kick at the can for THIS exact core. Want to win? Then show why you're the 5th best team in the league this year and prove it. Otherwise, there likely will be significant changes, likely with a guy like Kreider since he has a very tradeable contract and MNTC this summer unlocked. Maybe Trouba if you eat some money. Either way, we don't go into next year with the same core unless we are talking finals this year. 

[Jdog99]

Ide rather be competing every year for the next decade than selling the future for a marginally higher chance at advancing a bit further this season.

 

If this team wants it, and lavi isn't washed - theyll win with these guys.

[Phil]

They missed almost entirely on my kind of player — the kind of players I think they just don't have enough of, who play with piss and vinegar. Those guys routinely play huge, pivotal roles in the playoffs. Roles you really notice and appreciate if and when your team's stars get shut down or wilt — something we unfortunately know all too well.

 

I wanted Duhaime. I wanted Trenin. Maroon. Bogosian. Kunin. Tuch. Jenner. Hartman. I wanted anyone built in this mold. They got none of them (and it pisses me off that the Avs got two). But in spite of that, the State of our Union is growing stronger! Drury found pieces that, on paper, could work out well to improve the team's 5v5 numbers (or at least get them out of the red) and allow them to construct a balanced roster. More than that, they're multidimensional players. Both Wennberg and Roslovic play multiple forward positions, so if the initial plan doesn't work, shuffling them around (or others around them) isn't likely to break the line balance.

 

It's not exactly as I'd have drawn it up, but I can't really fault Drury for what he's done. He didn't find the truculence I want, but he did find competence, and sometimes that's all you need.

[BrooksBurner]

37 minutes ago, Vodka Drunkenski said:

Idk, I don’t consider that a shock trade

I viewed the rough NYR equivalent as:

 

Miller for Mittlestadt

Goodrow/1st for Hanifin

 

A little short on Hanifin’s value, but you catch my drift here. I think trading a 24 y.o. Miller or a 22 y.o. Byram (4th overall pick not long ago) is a bold move.

[RodrigueGabriel]

3 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

I viewed the rough NYR equivalent as:

 

Miller for Mittlestadt

Goodrow/1st for Hanifin

 

A little short on Hanifin’s value, but you catch my drift here. I think trading a 24 y.o. Miller or a 22 y.o. Byram (4th overall pick not long ago) is a bold move.

Thinking of Byram, who was never going to take Makar's job, I kinda can't believe that Drury couldn't find a way to harvest some value out of Jones this time around. He's not going to play a lot (if at all ) in the Playoffs and unless he's able to get significantly stronger, they'll keep importing behemoths that cut in line ahead of him on the depth chart. Maybe a hockey trade in the summer.

[mbob]

42 minutes ago, Keirik said:

The miss was Tarasenko

I read somewhere Tank was not an option for any retention as well because they had him last year on retention and there’s a rule not allowing it two in a row. 

[RodrigueGabriel]

While Drury was largely able to plug the hole at 3C to give it stronger defensive mettle, Wennberg doesn't replace Chytil's scoring production. Nor does Roslovic address the main reason that it was worth swinging for Guentzel or why Vatrano would again be a good fit - the ability to put the puck in the net. I had really hoped to get someone who's regularly scored around 20-25 goals a year; nothing super fancy but a reasonably reliable scorer to jumpstart the KZ combination.  While Roslovic has some strengths and though he broke 20 once, he doesn't appear to be that guy. (I don't think Duclair was that guy either.)

 

The Rangers have been super challenged to score in the Playoffs the last two seasons as teams have found a way to neutralize Panarin. I think it will continue to be a struggle. Maybe the cohesion with Troch and Laf represents an upgrade, but teams' top shutdown units are going to be on them like proverbial flies on shit.

 

So for me it's the main box that wasn't adequately checked. (Though I'll take Phil's point on piss and vinegar.)

Edited March 9 by RodrigueGabriel

[RichieNextel305]

11 minutes ago, RodrigueGabriel said:

While Drury was largely able to plug the hole at 3C to give it stronger defensive mettle, Wennberg doesn't replace Chytil's scoring production. Nor does Roslovic address the main reason that it was worth swinging for Guentzel or why Vatrano would again be a good fit - the ability to put the puck in the net. I had really hoped to get someone who's regularly scored around 20-25 goals a year; nothing super fancy but a reasonably reliable scorer to jumpstart the KZ combination.  While Roslovic has some strengths and though he broke 20 once, he doesn't appear to be that guy. (I don't think Duclair was that guy either.)

 

The Rangers have been super challenged to score in the Playoffs the last two seasons as teams have found a way to neutralize Panarin. I think it will continue to be a struggle. Maybe the cohesion with Troch and Laf represents an upgrade, but teams' top shutdown units are going to be on them like proverbial flies on shit.

 

So for me it's the main box that wasn't adequately checked. (Though I'll take Phil's point on piss and vinegar.)

I agree with this.

 

Just to be clear, I’m not saying Duclair would have been that guy either. But at least he represents something we were chasing: goal scoring. That’s all I’m saying. I’m just confused as to why we would give up a 4th (potentially a 3rd) for Roslovic when we could have done that for a player who’s strengths resemble more closely what we went into the deadline searching for.

[phillyb]

Who's gonna be in town for puck drop tomorrow?

[Bugg]

8 hours ago, RodrigueGabriel said:

While Drury was largely able to plug the hole at 3C to give it stronger defensive mettle, Wennberg doesn't replace Chytil's scoring production. Nor does Roslovic address the main reason that it was worth swinging for Guentzel or why Vatrano would again be a good fit - the ability to put the puck in the net. I had really hoped to get someone who's regularly scored around 20-25 goals a year; nothing super fancy but a reasonably reliable scorer to jumpstart the KZ combination.  While Roslovic has some strengths and though he broke 20 once, he doesn't appear to be that guy. (I don't think Duclair was that guy either.)

 

The Rangers have been super challenged to score in the Playoffs the last two seasons as teams have found a way to neutralize Panarin. I think it will continue to be a struggle. Maybe the cohesion with Troch and Laf represents an upgrade, but teams' top shutdown units are going to be on them like proverbial flies on shit.

 

So for me it's the main box that wasn't adequately checked. (Though I'll take Phil's point on piss and vinegar.)

Drury is putting his faith in Zib and Kreider to be what they're being paid to be once the playoffs start. Panarin has been everything you could hope for this season, and along with Trocheck will probably continue that in the playoffs. But this team will rise or fall depending on 20 and 93.

 

Keep in  mind; 2 years running this team went out in the playoffs blowing 2-0 series leads. The numbers on that are ridiculous; to do it twice back to back, off the charts.   Drury has to think he has a coach in Laviolette that can fix that this spring. 

[RichieNextel305]

For sure. The onus is on the star players in-house to not collapse in the playoffs. This is a team that is built for a longer run. Anything short of a decent run here and I think you see major league changes to that locker room. It’s make or break time for this core. They were spared last summer when it was deemed a Gallant issue. This time around, I don’t think it’s going to fall on the coaching staff if this team has another embarrassing showing come Spring. They have to show up.

[RodrigueGabriel]

2 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said:

For sure. The onus is on the star players in-house to not collapse in the playoffs. This is a team that is built for a longer run. Anything short of a decent run here and I think you see major league changes to that locker room. It’s make or break time for this core. They were spared last summer when it was deemed a Gallant issue. This time around, I don’t think it’s going to fall on the coaching staff if this team has another embarrassing showing come Spring. They have to show up.

Agree. Moderate deadline adds mean very little if the core doesn't shoulder the load.