Mercogliano 5 Possible Trade Partners for the Rangers

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, RichieNextel305 said:

.And honestly, FWIW, Kane and Tarasenko were both the least of our problems in that series. 

Despite the box score stats. Kane was a horror show in the playoffs. Dude gave up on so many plays, had lazy line changes and did very little on back checking.

 

All they needed was Tarasenko and a lower line RW/C. Mikkola was a solid pick up as a throw in on that trade (Tarasenko). 

 

The focus should have been on the most complete team. Not the team with the most star power. 

 

The goal now is similar. A competent 3C and a depth RW or 2. While it'd be awesome to make a move for now and down the road,  it's looking more like some bargain hunting,  scrap heap acquisition is on the way.

 

I think Tarasenko fits the scrap heap category right now. 13 goals and 20 assists with roughly 15 minutes of ice on a shit team,  kinda tells you how he's fits in Ottawa. Though I do think his plan was to hide out in Ottawa to get paid and eventually head to the Rangers in a retention trade. Probably just biding his time. 

 

The 3C is going to be a bargain type making 2 mill. I still think Frederick Gaudreau is a fit.  2.1 mill, signed for 4 more years.  I believe he started his career under Laviolette. Cheap enough to bury on the 4th line if he doesn't fit the bill moving forward.  Tradeable too. 

 

 

 

 

[BrooksBurner]

23 minutes ago, Albatrosss said:

Looks back at the Kane rumors thread. Lots of peeps didnt want him, especially after the Tarasenko trade. 

 

I was pro-Kane, which turned out bad, but he wasn't used how I wanted either. Gallant put too many cooks in the kitchen on PP1 and it showed.

[Albatrosss]

2 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

I was pro-Kane, which turned out bad, but he wasn't used how I wanted either. Gallant put too many cooks in the kitchen on PP1 and it showed.

GG had no choice but to. Kane was a bigger name than Tarasenko, even if he was skating on one hip. 

[Br4d]

The Rangers need a topline center.  It'll be more obvious after the season but it's there right now in plain sight.

[jsm7302]

4 minutes ago, Br4d said:

The Rangers need a topline center.  It'll be more obvious after the season but it's there right now in plain sight.

You've been beating this drum in a few different places and I get the points regarding 5v5 play.

 

He is ranked 50th for centers in even strength points and 11th for pp points.

[Pete]

4 minutes ago, jsm7302 said:

You've been beating this drum in a few different places and I get the points regarding 5v5 play.

 

He is ranked 50th for centers in even strength points and 11th for pp points.

Since December 15th he has four less even strength points than Conor McDavid. 

 

People need to look at context and not just rankings on spreadsheet mostly because there are some guys listed at center who aren't playing center. 

 

The back half of the season they have been bad defensively, but their even strength scoring is up there with teams like Vancouver and Boston. 

Edited February 9 by Pete

[BrooksBurner]

27 minutes ago, Albatrosss said:

GG had no choice but to. Kane was a bigger name than Tarasenko, even if he was skating on one hip. 

 

I don't know. From what I remember, he put Kane in Panarin's spot. Panarin-Fox-Kane all guys who wanted the puck on their stick looking to pass. It didn't have to be that way. I get that it was Kane, but you have to tell someone they are taking a backseat. If Gallant was forced into it because it was Kane, it's on Drury too. The role should have been clear pre-trade, and the role should have been determined by communication between GM and coach. Meanwhile, IIRC, pre-Kane trade Tarasenko was starting to fit on PP1. The whole thing fucked up the PP,

[Albatrosss]

3 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

I don't know. From what I remember, he put Kane in Panarin's spot. Panarin-Fox-Kane all guys who wanted the puck on their stick looking to pass. It didn't have to be that way. I get that it was Kane, but you have to tell someone they are taking a backseat. If Gallant was forced into it because it was Kane, it's on Drury too. The role should have been clear pre-trade, and the role should have been determined by communication between GM and coach. Meanwhile, IIRC, pre-Kane trade Tarasenko was starting to fit on PP1. The whole thing fucked up the PP,

100%. Totally on Drury and it fucked up the team chemistry. 

[Br4d]

27 minutes ago, jsm7302 said:

You've been beating this drum in a few different places and I get the points regarding 5v5 play.

 

He is ranked 50th for centers in even strength points and 11th for pp points.

 

50th in EVS points is not a #1 center.  It's a #2/#3 center depending on other qualities.

 

Not running the numbers but he's probably not close to #50 in EVS goals.

Edited February 9 by Br4d

[RangersIn7]

55 minutes ago, jsm7302 said:

Tbh, it isn't hindsight because I said it prior to and post trade. I get why they did it (cost to acquire) but it just wasn't what the team needed, BUT we cant change the past and I'm not the GM so hopefully lessons have been learned and we can address complementing the current roster and not remaking it at the deadline.

 

We all know the two MAJOR holes on the roster; this should be an easy deadline for Drury. Address the two holes with serviceable NHLers, preferably at least one with speed and one with scoring touch.

That was a general comment regarding hindsight. It wasn’t directed at you. 

[Pete]

41 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

I don't know. From what I remember, he put Kane in Panarin's spot. Panarin-Fox-Kane all guys who wanted the puck on their stick looking to pass. It didn't have to be that way. I get that it was Kane, but you have to tell someone they are taking a backseat. If Gallant was forced into it because it was Kane, it's on Drury too. The role should have been clear pre-trade, and the role should have been determined by communication between GM and coach. Meanwhile, IIRC, pre-Kane trade Tarasenko was starting to fit on PP1. The whole thing fucked up the PP,

Drury said it's his job to get the best players and GG's job to figure out how to use them. Make of that what you will.

 

Bowness and Tocchet were on MvsW and they talked about this subject specifically. A GM may ask a coach what they need, and if a deal is close they might talk about a specific player and how they might be used, so they are consulted--but ultimately it's the GMs call.

 

I don't know of many coaches would have said no to Kane, especially the Rangers considering their issues at RW last year.

 

It doesn't seem like Drury and GG had a great relationship at that point. Not sure GG had any relationships at that point.

[Pete]

50 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

50th in EVS points is not a #1 center.  It's a #2/#3 center depending on other qualities.

 

Not running the numbers but he's probably not close to #50 in EVS goals.

Go look at his numbers over the last 20 or so games vs other centers. Then go through the list of players listed at center who are actually playing on the wing.

 

Wait, I know you don't like to actually research or post anything that backs up your opinion, so I'll do it.

 

Since Dec 15th...
https://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?reportType=game&dateFrom=2023-12-15&dateTo=2024-02-09&gameType=2&position=C&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=points,goals,assists&page=0&pageSize=50

 

I can name a handful of guys before we get to Zib who aren't centers. Verhaeghe, Petterson, Reinhart, Draisaitl (spends a ton of time on McDavid's wing), Barzal, Seguin, Barbashev...And again, 5 points behind McDavid. In the company of Larkin, Point, Miller, Crosby...

 

So where are you coming from with this stuff?

Edited February 9 by Pete

[Br4d]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

Go look at his numbers over the last 20 or so games vs other centers. Then go through the list of players listed at center who are actually playing on the wing.

 

Wait, I know you don't like to actually research or post anything that backs up your opinion, so I'll do it.

 

Since Dec 15th...
https://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?reportType=game&dateFrom=2023-12-15&dateTo=2024-02-09&gameType=2&position=C&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=points,goals,assists&page=0&pageSize=50

 

I can name a handful of guys before we get to Zib who aren't centers. Verhaeghe, Petterson, Reinhart, Draisaitl (spends a ton of time on McDavid's wing), Barzal, Seguin, Barbashev...And again, 5 points behind McDavid. In the company of Larkin, Point, Miller, Crosby...

 

So where are you coming from with this stuff?

 

I'm coming from Zib just doesn't score enough EVS goals to be a #1 center.

 

It just is what it is.

[BrooksBurner]

Talking about Zib at even strength isn't detailed enough. He is top 6 good at 4v4 and 3v3. You want him on the ice when there's space, and that's part of ES. Zib at 5v5 has not been top 6 good.

 

Using @Pete's date range, I can see Zib is 12th in total points, 27th in ES points, but if I look at 5v5 via naturalstattrick, he's 44th (https://naturalstattrick.com/playerteams.php?fromseason=20232024&thruseason=20232024&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&stdoi=std&rate=n&team=ALL&pos=C&loc=B&toi=0&gpfilt=gpdate&fd=2023-12-15&td=2024-02-09&tgp=410&lines=single&draftteam=ALL).

 

On the season, he's 15th total, 43rd ES, 72nd 5v5.

 

It's a clear and distinct drop off, but also a testament to how good he is on the PP to be that high in total points, even with the dry spell of late (1 PPG since Christmas).

 

P.S. - Using the same date range for left wings, I see Kreider is 4th in total points, 9th in ES points, and 21st at 5v5. Bonafide 1st line wing numbers at all strengths, but he stinks 

Edited February 9 by BrooksBurner

[Pete]

58 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

Talking about Zib at even strength isn't detailed enough. He is top 6 good at 4v4 and 3v3. You want him on the ice when there's space, and that's part of ES. Zib at 5v5 has not been top 6 good.

 

Using @Pete's date range, I can see Zib is 12th in total points, 27th in ES points, but if I look at 5v5 via naturalstattrick, he's 44th (https://naturalstattrick.com/playerteams.php?fromseason=20232024&thruseason=20232024&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&stdoi=std&rate=n&team=ALL&pos=C&loc=B&toi=0&gpfilt=gpdate&fd=2023-12-15&td=2024-02-09&tgp=410&lines=single&draftteam=ALL).

 

On the season, he's 15th total, 43rd ES, 72nd 5v5.

 

It's a clear and distinct drop off, but also a testament to how good he is on the PP to be that high in total points, even with the dry spell of late (1 PPG since Christmas).

 

P.S. - Using the same date range for left wings, I see Kreider is 4th in total points, 9th in ES points, and 21st at 5v5. Bonafide 1st line wing numbers at all strengths, but he stinks 

Well let's be clear, you're using 5v5 instead of ES because it skews the numbers to support your argument.

 

Have you went and pulled out all the players listed at center who aren't actually playing center? And you keep going by rank, mean a lot of these players are separated by a handful of points... Because showing a lower rank shines a negative light when there really isn't one. 

 

You also ignored the question in the other thread about why CK would be less effective playing with Brodz on the 3rd line... Since you say Mika is 3C... And yet CK is putting up numbers with him... And you said you're comfortable with Brodz as #3C... So there should be no decline in CK's numbers if they swapped centers, right?

 

I also wonder how good CK would be if he actually tried instead of half-assing. 

Edited February 9 by Pete

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Br4d said:

 

I'm coming from Zib just doesn't score enough EVS goals to be a #1 center.

 

It just is what it is.

The numbers don't actually support that, but keep going! 

[BrooksBurner]

3 minutes ago, Pete said:

Well let's be clear, you're using 5v5 instead of ES because it skews the numbers to support your argument.

 

Have you went and pulled out all the players listed at center who aren't actually playing center? 

 

You also ignored the question in the other thread about why CK would be less effective playing with Brodz on the 3rd line... Since you say Mika is 3C... And yet CK is putting up numbers with him... And you said you're comfortable with Brodz as #3C... So there should be no decline in CK's numbers if they swapped centers, right?

 

I also wonder how good CK would be if he actually tried instead of half-assing. 

I didn’t ignore it. You kept talking about ES, and you think 5v5 is a skewed way of analyzing a player. Next time I see you try to break down PP vs ES production, or talk about PP time, I’ll just say you’re skewing data.

 

I never said Brodzinski was as good as Zibanejad. I wouldn’t say that lol. I also didn’t say I was comfortable with Brodz at 3C. I said I viewed solving the 2nd line primary scoring issue a higher priorirty than thinking about the 3rd line. Truth be told, Cuylle and Kakko should be doing more on the 3rd line too, but for now I’m ok if that line keeps play even.

 

People around here have been getting on Fox for a presumed lack of effort too. Some guys don’t look like they’re trying. Other guys look like Tyler Motte hustling all over the ice because they never have the puck and are always chasing. I don’t portray it as effort as much as Kreider is a positionally sound player. No, that doesn’t mean he never lets up when he shouldn’t, or gives less than 100% like every other player from time to time. He’s not perfect. Reading on here you’d think he’s perpetually out for a warmup skate and I don’t agree.

[Pete]

33 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

I didn’t ignore it. You kept talking about ES, and you think 5v5 is a skewed way of analyzing a player. Next time I see you try to break down PP vs ES production, or talk about PP time, I’ll just say you’re skewing data.

 

I never said Brodzinski was as good as Zibanejad. I wouldn’t say that lol. I also didn’t say I was comfortable with Brodz at 3C. I said I viewed solving the 2nd line primary scoring issue a higher priorirty than thinking about the 3rd line. Truth be told, Cuylle and Kakko should be doing more on the 3rd line too, but for now I’m ok if that line keeps play even.

 

People around here have been getting on Fox for a presumed lack of effort too. Some guys don’t look like they’re trying. Other guys look like Tyler Motte hustling all over the ice because they never have the puck and are always chasing. I don’t portray it as effort as much as Kreider is a positionally sound player. No, that doesn’t mean he never lets up when he shouldn’t, or gives less than 100% like every other player from time to time. He’s not perfect. Reading on here you’d think he’s perpetually out for a warmup skate and I don’t agree.

I didn't say you were skewing data. I said using 5v5 skews the numbers to support your point. It's not a manipulation of data but a manipulation of context.

 

Let's dig deeper into those numbers though. Gotta stop using ranks because they are pointless (but again they skew negatively so I see the motive there), firstly there are a ton of guys who aren't centers who are listed as centers, most of the guys are within a handful of points, and players are tied so 11 points can mean you're 30th or 40th. Ranking is not the best way to compare.

 

With 2 more points he's tied with Crosby, who is undoubtedly a #1C.

 

In the time frame we're talking about, Krieder has 3 more goals and 1 more assist than Zib. 4 points don't separate 3rd liners from 1st liners. And as I said, the solution lies with Zib shooting more.

Edited February 9 by Pete

[The Dude]

6 hours ago, Br4d said:

The Rangers need a topline center.  It'll be more obvious after the season but it's there right now in plain sight.

Let me know when one that is better than Zibanejad is available. 

 

I mean, who do you think they're going to get? Whats available? Is it actually better? 

 

I'm all ears. I'd love to slide Zibanejad down a peg. How would this be achieved?

[The Dude]

5 hours ago, Pete said:

Since December 15th he has four less even strength points than Conor McDavid. 

 

People need to look at context and not just rankings on spreadsheet mostly because there are some guys listed at center who aren't playing center. 

 

The back half of the season they have been bad defensively, but their even strength scoring is up there with teams like Vancouver and Boston. 

Thanks Wheeler...

 

[Br4d]

40 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Let me know when one that is better than Zibanejad is available. 

 

I mean, who do you think they're going to get? Whats available? Is it actually better? 

 

I'm all ears. I'd love to slide Zibanejad down a peg. How would this be achieved?

 

The Rangers have had problems at 5v5 each of the last 3 seasons, while being competitive due to a strong powerplay and strong goaltending.

 

Maybe it's time to think outside the box and go force somebody to trade their #1 or #2 center in a deal they might not even have a glimmer about right now.

 

What happens if the Rangers take Adam Fox to TBL and ask for Brayden Point?

[Pete]

24 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

The Rangers have had problems at 5v5 each of the last 3 seasons, while being competitive due to a strong powerplay and strong goaltending.

 

Maybe it's time to think outside the box and go force somebody to trade their #1 or #2 center in a deal they might not even have a glimmer about right now.

 

What happens if the Rangers take Adam Fox to TBL and ask for Brayden Point?

You tell us.

 

Who do they have to replace Point? How do we replace Fox?

 

Hard to see how that trade makes both teams better. Borrowing from Peter to pay Paul. 

[The Dude]

18 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

What happens if the Rangers take Adam Fox to TBL and ask for Brayden Point?

Besides lose the trade?

 

Why would they want Fox when they have Hedman? 

 

I guess we can wait for McDavid? 

Trade for Tavares? 

Sign Stamkos when he hits FA?

Sign Reinhardt, who is  going to demand ridiculous money?

Lindholm is a similar player..

 

There's really nothing out there to aquire. 

 

 

 

[Br4d]

Just now, Pete said:

You tell us.

 

Who do they have to replace Point? How do we replace Fox?

 

Hard to see how that trade makes both teams better. Borrowing from Peter to pay Paul. 

 

That trade definitely makes the Rangers better.

 

Love Fox or not he's one of the primary instigators of the cyclen and never get a shot off offense the Rangers run 5v5 a lot of the time.

 

Point is a strong 5v5 player with some holes elsewhere in his game (face-offs primarily).

[Pete]

2 hours ago, Br4d said:

 

That trade definitely makes the Rangers better.

 

Love Fox or not he's one of the primary instigators of the cyclen and never get a shot off offense the Rangers run 5v5 a lot of the time.

 

Point is a strong 5v5 player with some holes elsewhere in his game (face-offs primarily).

I completely disagree that it says clean as you think it is.

 

Right handed defenseman who can play 30 minutes and are Norris winners are rare. 

 

We would be much worse defensively and we're already pretty bad defensively.

 

I already posted the even strength numbers for the last few months. The Rangers are up there with great teams like Boston and Vancouver. It's starting to feel like the narrative about their five on five play is weak. They can score at five on five. The question is can they defend?