Is There a Culture Issue?

[Dem]

I'm not down for moving anyone at this point. I don't have an issue w them needing time to learn the system, that's understandable The lack of effort is solely on the players. It is a movie we've seen before w this group. They have the talent to win. They however need a size 12 EE Up their asses. 

[The Dude]

5 hours ago, Dem said:

Last night was not a system problem IMO. It's a combo of lack of effort (personnel problem) and a lot of players who continually make poor decisions then keep getting top ice time (coaching/personnel problem). 

 

Laviolette cannot fix personnel issues. What he can do is not dress people w poor effort and or cannot make good decisions.

 

Personally I would have Panarin and Miller in the press box for 5 games as a start. A message needs to be sent now not halfway through the season. Remember when Keenan didn't dress Messier. Shocking to all but it sent a message to the players. A message needs to be sent here

I really don't get the angst towards Panarin.  He's been the only forward with consistent effort and a bit of electricity to his game. Guy has been playing really well and carries his line. 

 

I don't remember Keenan scratching Messier.  Like ever. 

 

I get the point you are trying to make. But Panarin isn't a good example.  Zibanejad? Sure. Miller? Sure. Goodrow? Sure. Schneider? Ok. Wheeler? Why not...  

[The Dude]

5 hours ago, BrooksBurner said:

I get that, but I just feel like it doesn’t accomplish anything to trade Fox if the “forward leaders” are still here. There’s too much kinship and cliques at the top with the guys we have. It’d really just have to be ripped apart.

#1 to go sadly would have to be Kreider. Cut deep. Take out the guy who has been here the longest.  I feel like this team takes on his and Zibanejads personalities. Soft spoken and too ho-hum. 

[The Dude]

Guy starts a thread about concerns about Kakko one day ago and gets his ass handed to him...

 

Game later people are trading everyone.. 

 

Seriously.. 

[RichieNextel305]

Let me clarify, the point of me starting this thread wasn’t to say that I feel X,Y and Z need to be done. I was just curious to see how others felt.

[Dem]

1 hour ago, The Dude said:

I really don't get the angst towards Panarin.  He's been the only forward with consistent effort and a bit of electricity to his game. Guy has been playing really well and carries his line. 

 

I don't remember Keenan scratching Messier.  Like ever. 

 

I get the point you are trying to make. But Panarin isn't a good example.  Zibanejad? Sure. Miller? Sure. Goodrow? Sure. Schneider? Ok. Wheeler? Why not...  

Panarin was not good last night and is the band leader for East West passing leading to off zone turnovers n odd man rushes against. My point is someone needs to be singled out and a point made no issue w your suggestions on who.

 

I seem to remember mess getting scratched but that was a lot of drinks ago lol. Maybe it was leetch. He def scratched one of the stars during that championship season and I recall the team started working harder. 

Edited October 21, 2023 by Dem

[Jdog99]

This is gonna be a whole hell of alota waisted real estate if they kill it tommorrow night.

[Pete]

21 minutes ago, Jdog99 said:

This is gonna be a whole hell of alota waisted real estate if they kill it tommorrow night.

 

That's bipolar fans for you. 

[Pete]

26 minutes ago, Dem said:

Panarin was not good last night and is the band leader for East West passing leading to off zone turnovers n odd man rushes against. My point is someone needs to be singled out and a point made no issue w your suggestions on who.

 

I seem to remember mess getting scratched but that was a lot of drinks ago lol. Maybe it was leetch. He def scratched one of the stars during that championship season and I recall the team started working harder. 

The problem with your take is that Panarin makes that play 100 times a season, and 90 times it works, but you'll harp on the 10 times it doesn't. 

[BrooksBurner]

17 minutes ago, Pete said:

The problem with your take is that Panarin makes that play 100 times a season, and 90 times it works, but you'll harp on the 10 times it doesn't. 

What’s the success rate for it in playoff hockey

[Dem]

23 minutes ago, Pete said:

The problem with your take is that Panarin makes that play 100 times a season, and 90 times it works, but you'll harp on the 10 times it doesn't. 

And the other ten end in odd man rushes and goals. Are you saying Panarin doesn't have the skill to adapt his game to a more north south game? You really ought to have more respect for the man!

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, Dem said:

Panarin was not good last night and is the band leader for East West passing leading to off zone turnovers n odd man rushes against. My point is someone needs to be singled out and a point made no issue w your suggestions on who.

 

I seem to remember mess getting scratched but that was a lot of drinks ago lol. Maybe it was leetch. He def scratched one of the stars during that championship season and I recall the team started working harder. 

He's changing. It's pretty obvious that he's skating hard and is crazy aggressive on the forecheck and in the neutral zone. He's taking pucks deep and towards the net. He's a high danger machine right now offensively. IMO he's the only forward that is driving play and taking things more seriously.  

 

Zibanejad is constantly setting up for east/west crap. Really becoming a one trick pony with that off wing one timer. He's better than that, but he keeps going to the well with that. He's really gotta drive to the net and maybe take some shots from the right and in close. 

 

If you want to complain about continuing the east west mentality and not adapting his game in being more aggressive,  I'd say your target should be Zibanejad. Not Panarin. 

 

Its game 4 though. Everyone needs to shake off that GG stink still. It might take a while and it may take some line combination adjustments. 

 

I'd say the players that look like they're changing for the better are Panarin, Trouba, Chytil, Lafrenière,  Fox and maybe Trocheck a little .

 

I'm seeing a lot of the same old same old from Kakko, Zibanejad, Miller and Goodrow. 

 

Lindgren, Kreider and Shesterkin didn't need to change a thing. 

 

Schneider looks like he's regressing and getting worse defensively. 

 

Again it's game 4. I have confidence that the coaching staff is doing a great job of communicating what they want and demand. Let's not trade everyone and act like no players are doing what's expected of them just yet. 

 

 

Keenan glued Leetch to the bench. I think it was in the playoffs too. Not Messier. 

 

 

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by The Dude

[Dem]

8 minutes ago, The Dude said:

He's changing. It's pretty obvious that he's skating hard and is crazy aggressive on the forecheck and in the neutral zone. He's taking pucks deep and towards the net. He's a high danger machine right now offensively. IMO he's the only forward that is driving play and taking things more seriously.  

 

Zibanejad is constantly setting up for east/west crap. Really becoming a one trick pony with that off wing one timer. He's better than that, but he keeps going to the well with that. He's really gotta drive to the net and maybe take some shots from the right and in close. 

 

If you want to complain about continuing the east west mentality and not adapting his game in being more aggressive,  I'd say your target should be Zibanejad. Not Panarin. 

 

Its game 4 though. Everyone needs to shake off that GG stink still. It might take a while and it may take some line combination adjustments. 

 

I'd say the players that look like they're changing for the better are Panarin, Trouba, Chytil, Lafrenière,  Fox and maybe Trocheck a little .

 

I'm seeing a lot of the same old same old from Kakko, Zibanejad, Miller and Goodrow. 

 

Lindgren, Kreider and Shesterkin didn't need to change a thing. 

 

Schneider looks like he's regressing and getting worse defensively. 

 

Again it's game 4. I have confidence that the coaching staff is doing a great job of communicating what they want and demand. Let's not trade everyone and act like no players are doing what's expected of them just yet. 

 

 

Keenan glued Leetch to the bench. I think it was in the playoffs too. Not Messier. 

 

 

 

I never said we should trade anyone. Read the post again

[The Dude]

4 minutes ago, Dem said:

I never said we should trade anyone. Read the post again

OK, that  part was a generalized comment. I mean have you read the thread? 

 

Nothing to say about the other 96% of the response? 

 

[Pete]

32 minutes ago, Dem said:

And the other ten end in odd man rushes and goals. Are you saying Panarin doesn't have the skill to adapt his game to a more north south game? You really ought to have more respect for the man!

It's hard to tell if your Panarin takes are worse than your Miller takes, but it's close. 

 

Hating 2 of the better players on the team for not being perfect says more about you than it does about them.  

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by Pete

[Dem]

I at least respect Panarin you clearly don't and think he is unable to modify his game to a system. Your take on Panarin is laughable. 

[Dem]

8 minutes ago, Pete said:

It's hard to tell if your Panarin takes are worse than your Miller takes, but it's close. 

 

Hating 2 of the better players on the team for not being perfect says more about you than it does about them.  

 

And miller is just not a good hockey player

[Dem]

8 minutes ago, The Dude said:

OK, that  part was a generalized comment. I mean have you read the thread? 

 

Nothing to say about the other 96% of the response? 

 

Nah your clearly smarter n prob work for the NYR front office with Pete

[Pete]

22 minutes ago, Dem said:

And miller is just not a good hockey player

The rest of the hockey world disagrees, but cool story. 

[Pete]

21 minutes ago, Dem said:

Nah your clearly smarter n prob work for the NYR front office with Pete

Don't bring me into your bullshit because your hockey takes are god awful LOL 

[BrooksBurner]

39 minutes ago, Dem said:

And miller is just not a good hockey player

 

He's been so bad this season. He used to have some offensive pizzazz to offset some of the defensive deficiencies. Now I don't see that. He's regressed defensively too. Terrible in his own zone and handles the puck like a grenade back there.

Edited October 21, 2023 by BrooksBurner

[Pete]

"this season" It's four games old.

 

A rocky start to the season... "He's regressed!"

 

 

JFC 

 

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by Pete

[BrooksBurner]

Well, yes, these guys didn't just start playing hockey. There's a history that extends past 4 games. Miller looks like he's never played defense before. Does Fox? Does Lindgren? Does Trouba? Does Gus? Nope.

[Pete]

And surely even you can understand that sometimes players perform poorly for four games at a time. 

 

But it couldn't possibly be a young player feeling the pressure of having to overperform for a new coach with a reputation for activating defenseman...

 

But yes, let's continue to base our opinion on what we've learned with 78 games left to play. 

Edited October 21, 2023 by Pete

[Dem]

3 hours ago, Pete said:

Don't bring me into your bullshit because your hockey takes are god awful LOL 

I'm not the one who thinks Panarin can't adapt. Why do you think that Pete you think he's dumb or what lol