BrooksBurner Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Long live the King said: Lindgren isn't going to be captain. He's destined to be a cap casualty. Not anytime soon he isn’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 1 minute ago, rmc51 said: Not anytime soon he isn’t. He has max 2 years left. They can't resign him. They can't keep Miller and Schneider and give Lindgren a raise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 14 minutes ago, Long live the King said: He has max 2 years left. They can't resign him. They can't keep Miller Trouba and Schneider and give Lindgren a raise. Lindgren will be 25 for his next contract and he’s Fox’s steady LD partner. The Rangers will choose between Trouba and Schneider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 14 minutes ago, rmc51 said: Lindgren will be 25 for his next contract and he’s Fox’s steady LD partner. The Rangers will choose between Trouba and Schneider. Unfortunately I have to agree, lingering is the one who should be kept because you could probably keep him for 5M. There's really no point in keeping and paying Miller if you're not going to promote him to the first pair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 (edited) There's no point in promoting Miller while Lindgren is here. They can promote him once Lindgren is gone. Trouba will be gone when Schneider is closing in on his 3rd deal. If $9.5 million Fox can only play with Lindgren then Fox is the one we should trade. $5 for Lindgren for how long? 4-5 years? That puts us 6-7 years from today? His body won't last that long. Danger zone. TM @josh Edited July 9, 2022 by Long live the King Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br4d Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 Fox and Miller should be the #1 pair. Trouba and Lindgren #2. Schneider and the hot name of the year on the 3rd pair. We all like Miller however I think we forget how big he is because he has tended to play soft so far. He needs to step into his frame and start using his body more. He has the potential to be one of the best defensemen in the NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 Lindgren is 24 years old. He has plenty of mileage left on his body. In 2 years he'll only be 26. Lindgren ($5M) - Fox ($9.5M) Miller ($5-6M) - Schneider ($3M?) is probably the ticket. I'll take Lindgren at $5M and Schneider at $3M over Trouba at $8M. It's not really close, to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Long live the King said: There's no point in promoting Miller while Lindgren is here. They can promote him once Lindgren is gone. Trouba will be gone when Schneider is closing in on his 3rd deal. I just said that lol. That's why Lindgren is a cap casualty. Quote If $9.5 million Fox can only play with Lindgren then Fox is the one we should trade. That's silly. Even Leetch suffered greatly after Beukeboom left. Quote $5 for Lindgren for how long? 4-5 years? That puts us 6-7 years from today? His body won't last that long. Danger zone. His next contract is going to be 5 million plus. He's already at over 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 On 7/9/2022 at 1:43 PM, Pete said: Unfortunately I have to agree, lingering is the one who should be kept because you could probably keep him for 5M. There's really no point in keeping and paying Miller if you're not going to promote him to the first pair. Agreed. If Miller gets paid, Lindgren is gone, and vice versa. Trouba's deal, again, eats too much cap percentage to make paying all four of their top-four defenders. If he made $5 million, this is probably a different discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 8 minutes ago, Phil said: Agreed. If Miller gets paid, Lindgren is gone, and vice versa. Trouba's deal, again, eats too much cap percentage to make paying all four of their top-four defenders. If he made $5 million, this is probably a different discussion. Schneider/Lindgren needing new contracts and /Trouba NMC downgrading to limited-NTC all happen summer 2024. That’s when the decision needs to be made. I don’t see how paying Miller affects Lindgren more than the 2RD decision which has a major impact on cap. Even if Schneider isn’t ready for 2RD at that stage, there will still be an argument that they are better off trading Trouba (-8M), giving Lindgren 5M, and using the cap to find a short term 2RD as Schneider develops, rather than completely sacking the left side. But a lot can change in 2 years. Maybe a Robertson makes Lindgren expendable. Who knows. Right now I would value Lindgren at 5M more than Trouba at 8M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albatrosss Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 10 minutes ago, rmc51 said: Schneider/Lindgren needing new contracts and /Trouba NMC downgrading to limited-NTC all happen summer 2024. That’s when the decision needs to be made. I don’t see how paying Miller affects Lindgren more than the 2RD decision which has a major impact on cap. Even if Schneider isn’t ready for 2RD at that stage, there will still be an argument that they are better off trading Trouba (-8M), giving Lindgren 5M, and using the cap to find a short term 2RD as Schneider develops, rather than completely sacking the left side. But a lot can change in 2 years. Maybe a Robertson makes Lindgren expendable. Who knows. Right now I would value Lindgren at 5M more than Trouba at 8M. i think if you value Lindgren at $5M, Trouba is def worth $8M for what he brings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 I love Lindgren, but the moment you drop $5M+ on him, he's Girardi/Staal again. What makes these guys so valuable is that they give you their absolute warrior best while their bodies can afford it at financially valuable/responsible figures. When you pay them, you are often buying the most fragile years of their careers, and you're paying more for less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 24 minutes ago, Phil said: I love Lindgren, but the moment you drop $5M+ on him, he's Girardi/Staal again. What makes these guys so valuable is that they give you their absolute warrior best while their bodies can afford it at financially valuable/responsible figures. When you pay them, you are often buying the most fragile years of their careers, and you're paying more for less. I see what you're saying but I don't agree on the price tag, G signed his 5 million deal like 6 years ago. Giving Lindgren 5 now is like giving G 4M back then, which would have been okay. Our issue is that we are cap strapped, not that we will overpay him, we can't even give him what he's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 6 minutes ago, Pete said: I see what you're saying but I don't agree on the price tag, G signed his 5 million deal like 6 years ago. Giving Lindgren 5 now is like giving G 4M back then, which would have been okay. Our issue is that we are cap strapped, not that we will overpay him, we can't even give him what he's worth. The ages don't completely overlap, but Lindgren getting $5 million also likely means Lindgren getting term. Maybe not eight years, but even at six, let's say, you're carrying him to around 31. I guess it's not horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Phil said: I love Lindgren, but the moment you drop $5M+ on him, he's Girardi/Staal again. What makes these guys so valuable is that they give you their absolute warrior best while their bodies can afford it at financially valuable/responsible figures. When you pay them, you are often buying the most fragile years of their careers, and you're paying more for less. I get the concern, but prime Staal and prime Girardi were worth that number. The problem is when the Rangers signed them, there wasn’t enough prime years left for either of them. Staal was 28, Girardi was 30, and the Rangers gave them 6 year contracts taking them to ages 34 and 36. Girardi in particular was already showing signs of being out of his prime and they paid it anyway. Lindgren will be 26 when he needs a contract. A 6 year contract takes him to 32. Truth be told, he probably starts breaking down around 30, so if you can get him down from 6 years, even better, but the bulk of the contract will be affordable prime years. And if anyone thinks Lindgren will break down, what about Trouba? He’s 28 now and plays a heavy game too. In 2 years he will be 30 and probably starting the downhill trajectory. 26 year old Lindgren or 30 year old Trouba? Edited July 11, 2022 by rmc51 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, rmc51 said: I get the concern, but prime Staal and prime Girardi were worth that number. The problem is when the Rangers signed them, there wasn’t enough prime years left for either of them. Staal was 28, Girardi was 30, and the Rangers gave them 6 year contracts taking them to ages 34 and 36. Girardi in particular was already showing signs of being out of his prime and they paid it anyway. Lindgren will be 26 when he needs a contract. A 6 year contract takes him to 32. Truth be told, he probably starts breaking down around 30, so if you can get him down from 6 years, even better, but the bulk of the contract will be affordable prime years. And if anyone thinks Lindgren will break down, what about Trouba? He’s 28 now and plays a heavy game too. In 2 years he will be 30 and probably starting the downhill trajectory. 26 year old Lindgren or 30 year old Trouba? Trouba delivers punishment, Lindgren takes it. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 57 minutes ago, Phil said: The ages don't completely overlap, but Lindgren getting $5 million also likely means Lindgren getting term. Maybe not eight years, but even at six, let's say, you're carrying him to around 31. I guess it's not horrible. It isn't horrible at all, can we afford that is the question, and then how to you measure Miller against it? You can't pay both of them, and Fox, and Trouba, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsm7302 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 4 minutes ago, Pete said: It isn't horrible at all, can we afford that is the question, and then how to you measure Miller against it? You can't pay both of them, and Fox, and Trouba, etc. Troubas contract will certainly be the reason he will be shipped out eventually imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuddyInTheMiddle Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 24 minutes ago, Pete said: It isn't horrible at all, can we afford that is the question, and then how to you measure Miller against it? You can't pay both of them, and Fox, and Trouba, etc. Trouba is the odd man out in that scenario, not Lingdren if the variables stay the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, MuddyInTheMiddle said: Trouba is the odd man out in that scenario, not Lingdren if the variables stay the same. According to fans, maybe. Not sure management sees it that way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 16 minutes ago, Pete said: According to fans, maybe. Not sure management sees it that way. Yeah, for sure. I really don’t get it when I see Trouba talk or interview. I don’t really get “captain leadership” vibes. Yet by all accounts he is apparently looked up to in that kind of fashion, whether by teammates and/or management, which could definitely mean their view on keeping him or not is a lot different. If they did slap the C on him, I would be inclined to agree that Lindgren is out. Until then, though, it doesn’t seem like the right path for managing the cap to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuddyInTheMiddle Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 37 minutes ago, Pete said: According to fans, maybe. Not sure management sees it that way. Predicting what management will be thinking two full off seasons from now seems a little abstract to me. It's all just speculation anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 28 minutes ago, MuddyInTheMiddle said: Predicting what management will be thinking two full off seasons from now seems a little abstract to me. It's all just speculation anyway. By this logic, predicting who will be in or out in which scenario seems abstract, yet you definitively stated Trouba being the odd man out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuddyInTheMiddle Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 36 minutes ago, Pete said: By this logic, predicting who will be in or out in which scenario seems abstract, yet you definitively stated Trouba being the odd man out. Of course it's abstract; if you don't think it is tell me what the 12 Forwards, 6 Defensemen, & 2 Goalies will be for the beginning of the 2024-25 season will be and ask a mod to sticky it above. I stated that in my opinion, Trouba is the odd man out if the current variables hold. Chris Drury really doesn't put a lot of weight in my opinions though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 42 minutes ago, MuddyInTheMiddle said: Of course it's abstract; if you don't think it is tell me what the 12 Forwards, 6 Defensemen, & 2 Goalies will be for the beginning of the 2024-25 season will be and ask a mod to sticky it above. I stated that in my opinion, Trouba is the odd man out if the current variables hold. Chris Drury really doesn't put a lot of weight in my opinions though. OK, sounds like you just want to have a fight with someone, and I don't, so we can leave it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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