Jeff Gorton Didn’t Think Tom Wilson Incident Would Cost Jobs

[Slobberknocker]

would love to get JD's take on it but you probably never will. he took the high road out the door.

 

i was really pulling for him though. it would have been epic to see him on the canyon of hero's god willing

this group ever does see the mountain top.

 

you gotta believe gorton about the toughness too. there was no doubt in my mind it was going to be

addressed by them this summer.

 

i think it was a combination of two things. them distancing themselves from the letter and two the idea

of timeline was shorter on dolans end then theres.

[BrooksBurner]

would love to get JD's take on it but you probably never will. he took the high road out the door.

 

i was really pulling for him though. it would have been epic to see him on the canyon of hero's god willing

this group ever does see the mountain top.

 

you gotta believe gorton about the toughness too. there was no doubt in my mind it was going to be

addressed by them this summer.

 

i think it was a combination of two things. them distancing themselves from the letter and two the idea

of timeline was shorter on dolans end then theres.

 

You'll get this instead now, and you'll like it

 

[Scott]

The jury is out, I wonder how long the leash is?

 

#LLChamp

[The Dude]

would love to get JD's take on it but you probably never will. he took the high road out the door.

 

i was really pulling for him though. it would have been epic to see him on the canyon of hero's god willing

this group ever does see the mountain top.

 

you gotta believe gorton about the toughness too. there was no doubt in my mind it was going to be

addressed by them this summer.

 

i think it was a combination of two things. them distancing themselves from the letter and two the idea

of timeline was shorter on dolans end then theres.

 

This. More so, distancing themselves from the letter. Probably a lot of "WTFs" thrown at PR and Dolan about it, so he said fuck it and fuck you, you're done here".

 

I wouldn't doubt that they disagreed on a coaching change either. Probably the biggest breaking point.

[Pete]

Probably not.

[Slobberknocker]

i think quinn was probably gone. he was seriously out coached by trots which never plays well in our building.

[MSG]

Bringing in some bigger, tougher guys wasn't done to hinder the young players development, but actually to protect them. And for Dolan to protect his $13 million/year investment in Panarin. And other Rangers as well who aren't that big like Fox, etc. The Rangers have developed a skill team already. They needed some muscle to balance it out.

Yeah, Dolan is known for having a short fuse but he hadn't messed with the Rangers like he used to do with the Knicks. That is, until the Tom Wilson incident and his open letter to the NHL. I feel as owner of the Rangers, it was appropriate for him to do so.

[RodrigueGabriel]

I was reading a Carpiniello "mailbag" after it came out on April 29 and something really stuck in my head - to the point that I went back to check it this morning after reading this thread. 4/29 was followed in quick succession by the 2 Islanders debacles, the Tom Wilson meltdown, and bloody Tuesday on May 4. But even before all that, reading the passage caused me to question a lot of things that I had thought about JD and the management.

 

It was in answer to 2 questions that had slightly different angles. One was, when do they go all in to win. The other was, when do they contend. And the answer was:

 

"I think realistically they all believe 2022-23 at the earliest, 2023-24 more likely, in terms of serious contenders. Nobody would say that publicly."

 

I was a big JD/JG supporter and I had been recently engaging in a lot of debate here about whether making the playoffs was a reasonable/realistic expectation this year. But that just struck me as a really unambitious timetable - particularly one that they would allow to make it into a media story. I could see Dolan reading that (or having it pointed out to him) and going, WTF? These guys are just going to sit on their asses for a couple more years and wait to see if some of these kids hit or miss?

 

Then the team and the management embarrassed Dolan over the next few days and he combusted. But I could see a scenario where management's very self-secure patience and the fact that it was obvious enough for Carp to see and report on - at a time when a whole section of the fanbase thought they were underperforming at a crisis level despite an unlikely playoff bid - as having been some of the initial lighter fluid that ultimately resulted in Dolan bursting into flames.

[LindG1000]

I was reading a Carpiniello "mailbag" after it came out on April 29 and something really stuck in my head - to the point that I went back to check it this morning after reading this thread. 4/29 was followed in quick succession by the 2 Islanders debacles, the Tom Wilson meltdown, and bloody Tuesday on May 4. But even before all that, reading the passage caused me to question a lot of things that I had thought about JD and the management.

 

It was in answer to 2 questions that had slightly different angles. One was, when do they go all in to win. The other was, when do they contend. And the answer was:

 

"I think realistically they all believe 2022-23 at the earliest, 2023-24 more likely, in terms of serious contenders. Nobody would say that publicly."

 

I was a big JD/JG supporter and I had been recently engaging in a lot of debate here about whether making the playoffs was a reasonable/realistic expectation this year. But that just struck me as a really unambitious timetable - particularly one that they would allow to make it into a media story. I could see Dolan reading that (or having it pointed out to him) and going, WTF? These guys are just going to sit on their asses for a couple more years and wait to see if some of these kids hit or miss?

 

Then the team and the management embarrassed Dolan over the next few days and he combusted. But I could see a scenario where management's very self-secure patience and the fact that it was obvious enough for Carp to see and report on - at a time when a whole section of the fanbase thought they were underperforming at a crisis level despite an unlikely playoff bid - as having been some of the initial lighter fluid that ultimately resulted in Dolan bursting into flames.

 

That timeline seems accurate though.

 

We're gonna stink for two years (18-19, 19-20), be a bubble team for two years (20-21, 21-22) and then jump into the serious contention space in 22-23.

 

The calculus was probably right. What we got "wrong" was just how good Panarin and Fox would be and that it would drag us into a faux-playoff situation in 19-20. That put us a year or two ahead of pace, followed by lucking into a #1 overall pick in that very season.

 

I think Dolan expected that 19-20 was progress, and acted accordingly.

 

That said, we're missing the most important element of this interview - Panarin speaks perfect English.

[RodrigueGabriel]

That timeline seems accurate though.

 

We're gonna stink for two years (18-19, 19-20), be a bubble team for two years (20-21, 21-22) and then jump into the serious contention space in 22-23.

 

The calculus was probably right. What we got "wrong" was just how good Panarin and Fox would be and that it would drag us into a faux-playoff situation in 19-20. That put us a year or two ahead of pace, followed by lucking into a #1 overall pick in that very season.

 

I think Dolan expected that 19-20 was progress, and acted accordingly.

 

That said, we're missing the most important element of this interview - Panarin speaks perfect English.

I agree, laid out like that. But it's the "but realistically it's 23-24, we just don't want to say so" part that gave ne the strong sense that they were going to be sitting back and waiting for the team to bloom rather than taking aggressive measures to push that forward and compress the timetable. At the time, when they were already getting hacked to bits for underachieving (which I fundamentally disagreed with), I just thought it was a little tone deaf and careless on the part of JD/JG to have that impression out there.

 

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[josh]

20-21 = bubble battle/playoff exp

21/22 = playoff run

22/23 = start of cup runs

[LindG1000]

I agree, laid out like that. But it's the "but realistically it's 23-24, we just don't want to say so" part that gave ne the strong sense that they were going to be sitting back and waiting for the team to bloom rather than taking aggressive measures to push that forward and compress the timetable. At the time, when they were already getting hacked to bits for underachieving (which I fundamentally disagreed with), I just thought it was a little tone deaf and careless on the part of JD/JG to have that impression out there.

 

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

 

It may have been. The subtext of that was "we're not going to jump on what we need immediately if it doesn't fit in the long term".

 

Drury is making a calculated gamble that I think JG would have made anyway that this team is ready to be a team, and he's filled in the role players. What remains for me is what happens with the excess.

[RodrigueGabriel]

20-21 = bubble battle/playoff exp

21/22 = playoff run

22/23 = start of cup runs

And even if you didn't totally believe it, that's the face you wanted to convey.

 

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[jsm7302]

This off season really would have told the story for JG/JD and we will never know what they planned or intended. The fact that the team was ahead of rebuild schedule should have lit a fire under their asses to flex and move with the teams progress and gamble on anticipated continued progress with bringing in role players to fill gaps. We iced a super young team with no players to fill the void of grit and toughness. No locker room leadership as it appeared on the ice. I think a vet leader and a tough customer to fill 2 roster spots wouldve saved both of their jobs.

 

With that said, I like the management and coach in place and I forsee the most exciting Rangers roster since Torts coming our way. Im pumped for this year.

[Ozzy]

This off season really would have told the story for JG/JD and we will never know what they planned or intended. The fact that the team was ahead of rebuild schedule should have lit a fire under their asses to flex and move with the teams progress and gamble on anticipated continued progress with bringing in role players to fill gaps. We iced a super young team with no players to fill the void of grit and toughness. No locker room leadership as it appeared on the ice. I think a vet leader and a tough customer to fill 2 roster spots wouldve saved both of their jobs.

 

With that said, I like the management and coach in place and I foresee the most exciting Rangers roster since Torts coming our way. I'm pumped for this year.

 

Absolutely JSM!! I can't wait to see this team under Gallant!!!!

[Sod16]

The two losses to the Islanders and the Wilson game were really two different things. We were not bullied by the Islanders, we were out worked and out prepared by them.

 

The Wilson incident has been too belabored. We were on the PP as I recall so we didn't have anyone on the ice to contend with Wilson. Some may think otherwise, but I doubt that Wilson would have behaved any differently had a Ryan Reeves been on the bench at the time. That Wilson has been doing what he does for as long as he has indicates that other team's tough guys have not served as much of a deterrent.

 

In short, the Islanders' games were very relevant and reflected a real deficiency. The Wilson incident: it's over, forget it.

 

I think there's little doubt that JD/Gorton would have looked to add grit/toughness this off season.