Trading Panarin?

[Phil]

3 minutes ago, Long live the King said:

Fixed it for ya.  Panarin looked great in that series.

 

He did. That was a Torts-coached team. All balls. All effort. Always.

 

Believe Dubois was Panarin's center that year. I'm a Strome fan, but there's a stark difference between the two. Dubois is a bull, both literally (6'2, 220) and figuratively in the way he plays the game. Strome, by comparison, is bull shit. Seven points in 12 games thus far, six of which came in the Pens series (which wasn't nearly as physical).

 

He's not the only one. Kreider and Zibanejad are offensively starved in this series, too, but the larger point is that you can't win (or win very easily) in the post season when your roster is built like this. The top-six is playoff soft.

[Long live the King]

1 minute ago, Phil said:

 

He did. That was a Torts-coached team. All balls. All effort. Always.

 

Believe Dubois was Panarin's center that year. I'm a Strome fan, but there's a stark difference between the two. Dubois is a bull, both literally (6'2, 220) and figuratively in the way he plays the game. Strome, by comparison, is bull shit. Seven points in 12 games thus far, six of which came in the Pens series (which wasn't nearly as physical).

 

He's not the only one. Kreider and Zibanejad are offensively starved in this series, too, but the larger point is that you can't win (or win very easily) in the post season when your roster is built like this. The top-six is playoff soft.

 

Totally, which is precisely why I'd loved to try and get Scheifele out of Winnipeg, even if we could only keep him for 2 years.

[Phil]

Just now, Long live the King said:

Totally, which is precisely why I'd loved to try and get Scheifele out of Winnipeg, even if we could only keep him for 2 years.

 

Agreed. I'd love Dubois even more, but I don't think that the Jets will have any interest in trading him before next offseason. Just like they did with Trouba. They have one more year to see if they can lock him down. If they can't, they move him for a huge haul. But there's no incentive at all to move him before then unless the Rangers pay through the nose for it (Lafreniere).

[Long live the King]

Yea, I just see them doing everything they can to keep PLD, including trading Scheifele to put him on the top line considering they traded Laine for him.  

[Pete]

30 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

He did. That was a Torts-coached team. All balls. All effort. Always.

 

Believe Dubois was Panarin's center that year. I'm a Strome fan, but there's a stark difference between the two. Dubois is a bull, both literally (6'2, 220) and figuratively in the way he plays the game. Strome, by comparison, is bull shit. Seven points in 12 games thus far, six of which came in the Pens series (which wasn't nearly as physical).

 

He's not the only one. Kreider and Zibanejad are offensively starved in this series, too, but the larger point is that you can't win (or win very easily) in the post season when your roster is built like this. The top-six is playoff soft.

I'm about ready to walk away from Strome, but this narrative that it's because the 2nd line is soft, I don't agree. This is not a an overly physical series, aside from Trouba stealing Domi's soul, there have not been a series of thunderous hits or scrums. They've been outmuscled on the boards and Carolina's defense is stifling, but I would say they're "scared". There's just no fucking room.

[Phil]

13 minutes ago, Pete said:

I'm about ready to walk away from Strome, but this narrative that it's because the 2nd line is soft, I don't agree. This is not a an overly physical series, aside from Trouba stealing Domi's soul, there have not been a series of thunderous hits or scrums. They've been outmuscled on the boards and Carolina's defense is stifling, but I would say they're "scared". There's just no fucking room.

 

It's not an issue of thunderous hits and scrums — it's the active play. They don't exert their will, and the composure of the second line is stylistically no different than the first, which is why I say the entire top-six is "playoff soft." They don't do the dirty work. They don't go to the net. They don't cut to the slot, and when they do, they don't shoot. They pass and always look for the pretty play.

[siddious]

I think part of the problem with him is that it’s not just that he isn’t scoring but he’s making some pretty bone headed plays coming out of the zone too. If you’re not going to be a net positive guy at least don’t be a net negative and he is failing in that regard too. I think he’s had more give always in this years playoffs than he had all season long. And I think he had more this season than last. When your top offensive guy isn’t doing anything it’s not hard to see the team failing to continue advancing in the playoffs. 

 

[Phil]

16 minutes ago, siddious said:

I think part of the problem with him is that it’s not just that he isn’t scoring but he’s making some pretty bone headed plays coming out of the zone too. If you’re not going to be a net positive guy at least don’t be a net negative and he is failing in that regard too. I think he’s had more give always in this years playoffs than he had all season long. And I think he had more this season than last. When your top offensive guy isn’t doing anything it’s not hard to see the team failing to continue advancing in the playoffs.

 

Because he's always looking to make a huge stretch pass through six feet and three sticks. Like Pete said, there's no room, so make it. That's what good teams and good players do. Some luck you make.

[RangersIn7]

Gallant was right about the sticks and not finishing checks and laying the body. 
 

Gonna need to do that if there’s no space to skate for them. 

[Kick save and a beauty]

Let's just start off by stating that I wholly  approve of this thread, No, not because I agree necessarily that it is time to trade Artemi Panarin away but because it it time to at least try to understand why he has been playing so badly.

 

To the posters to wanted the thread to be closed or gave us brilliant contributions like "get off the crack pipe".  I would like to understand what part of this conversation is so uncomfortable that you would rather not have it at all.

 

I was hoping that Gallant would reveal that Artemi had been playing through some kind of a wrist injury and that his performance could be directly linked to that.  Unfortunately no such news.

 

In a year where we had one of the great goaltending seasons for the ages and a 52-goal scorer I thought Panarin was our best player over the course of the year.  All of which makes this postseason all the more painful.  He is not just invisible he has been flat out bad.  Trying behind the back passes that never seem to work out and putting us in defensive jeopardy more than once as a result.

 

Maybe the answer is that his game simply does not translate into a playoff series world where everyone is all effort every shift and where the a premium on defensive structure across the board.  If that means the space where Panarin normally operates most of the time is simply not present or is drastically reduced in playoff hockey then yes, it is time to see what we can get for him.  Panarin is taking up a big chunk of our salary cap and we cannot have that many nonperforming salary cap dollars on the ice in the playoffs.

 

Would he be better under a different coaching system in the playoffs?  Maybe yes maybe no but Gallant isn't going anywhere soon so that part almost doesn't matter.

 

Not every players figures out playoff hockey right away but this coaching staff and the front office needs to understand what has happened here because we cannot continue to have an $11 million albatross around our neck in the playoffs regardless of how much he has helped us to get there in the first place.

[Pete]

17 minutes ago, Kick save and a beauty said:

Let's just start off by stating that I wholly  approve of this thread, No, not because I agree necessarily that it is time to trade Artemi Panarin away but because it it time to at least try to understand why he has been playing so badly.

 

To the posters to wanted the thread to be closed or gave us brilliant contributions like "get off the crack pipe".  I would like to understand what part of this conversation is so uncomfortable that you would rather not have it at all.

 

I was hoping that Gallant would reveal that Artemi had been playing through some kind of a wrist injury and that his performance could be directly linked to that.  Unfortunately no such news.

 

In a year where we had one of the great goaltending seasons for the ages and a 52-goal scorer I thought Panarin was our best player over the course of the year.  All of which makes this postseason all the more painful.  He is not just invisible he has been flat out bad.  Trying behind the back passes that never seem to work out and putting us in defensive jeopardy more than once as a result.

 

Maybe the answer is that his game simply does not translate into a playoff series world where everyone is all effort every shift and where the a premium on defensive structure across the board.  If that means the space where Panarin normally operates most of the time is simply not present or is drastically reduced in playoff hockey then yes, it is time to see what we can get for him.  Panarin is taking up a big chunk of our salary cap and we cannot have that many nonperforming salary cap dollars on the ice in the playoffs.

 

Would he be better under a different coaching system in the playoffs?  Maybe yes maybe no but Gallant isn't going anywhere soon so that part almost doesn't matter.

 

Not every players figures out playoff hockey right away but this coaching staff and the front office needs to understand what has happened here because we cannot continue to have an $11 million albatross around our neck in the playoffs regardless of how much he has helped us to get there in the first place.

Two questions:

1. Did you see when the thread was opened?
2. Why would Gallant say anything about an injury in the middle of the playoffs?

[siddious]

Also if he’s injured we won’t hear anything about it until The end of the season and even then most likely only if there’s surgery required or something. 
 

I personally think he’s been off all season long and I hate to speculate but I’m gonna go there… Tom Wilson incident did something to him. 

[Kick save and a beauty]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

Two questions:

1. Did you see when the thread was opened?
2. Why would Gallant say anything about an injury in the middle of the playoffs?

 

1. My bad.  Maybe I assumed it was started recently by someone else who is sharing frustration about the level of his recent play. I did not check to see if it was a resurrected zombie thread.

 

2.  I get that we are unlikely to hear about any injury right now for obvious reasons and i hold out hope that that is what is going on here because all other explanations are bad.  The problem is that it is his decision making as much as it is his execution and at times his effort level which has been of most concern.  Nether of which seem like an injury

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

On 2/13/2021 at 1:50 AM, Vodka Drunkenski said:

Is it a possibility? Obviously things changed with drafting Kakko and Lafreniere.

What changed? 

[Pete]

18 hours ago, Kick save and a beauty said:

 

1. My bad.  Maybe I assumed it was started recently by someone else who is sharing frustration about the level of his recent play. I did not check to see if it was a resurrected zombie thread.

 

2.  I get that we are unlikely to hear about any injury right now for obvious reasons and i hold out hope that that is what is going on here because all other explanations are bad.  The problem is that it is his decision making as much as it is his execution and at times his effort level which has been of most concern.  Nether of which seem like an injury

Yea, it was a troll thread when opened haha. 

 

Personally I think he's hurt, secondly I just think there's not much there for him and he's not asserting himself, you would hope that he wouldn't try and force it but now he's starting to. 

[RangersIn7]

16 hours ago, Pete said:

Yea, it was a troll thread when opened haha. 

 

Personally I think he's hurt, secondly I just think there's not much there for him and he's not asserting himself, you would hope that he wouldn't try and force it but now he's starting to. 

He’s also seeing a very heavy dose of Slavin, who is perhaps the best defensive defenseman in all of hockey. And if he’s not at the top of that list, he’s not far south of it. 

[RJWantsTheCup]

I’ll agree with Slavin having something to do with Panarin’s struggles but who was the shutdown defenseman on Shittsburgh that made him struggle in the first series?

[RangersIn7]

12 minutes ago, RJWantsTheCup said:

I’ll agree with Slavin having something to do with Panarin’s struggles but who was the shutdown defenseman on Shittsburgh that made him struggle in the first series?

Panarin was better vs Pittsburgh than he has been in this series. Not great. But better. 

[RJWantsTheCup]

1 hour ago, RangersIn7 said:

Panarin was better vs Pittsburgh than he has been in this series. Not great. But better. 

Better still wasn’t regular Panarin.    In fact I wouldn’t even consider it good.  

[RangersIn7]

1 hour ago, RJWantsTheCup said:

Better still wasn’t regular Panarin.    In fact I wouldn’t even consider it good.  

Which should probably tell you all you need to know. 

[Cash or Czech]

Bump. Fucking useless. 

[Dunny]

[RichieNextel305]

Just a total dump of a playoff performance, and can and will sound alarm bells in Drurys office. 

The season is resounding success regardless, no matter how hot we all are. But man, this may be a five alarm fire for us. If he can’t do it, then we may need to move him. Because this is just an embarrassment.

[Blue Heaven]

2 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said:

Just a total dump of a playoff performance, and can and will sound alarm bells in Drurys office. 

The season is resounding success regardless, no matter how hot we all are. But man, this may be a five alarm fire for us. If he can’t do it, then we may need to move him. Because this is just an embarrassment.

We've seen how he has performed in tight checking games during the regular season, its not a shock at all that he isn't producing.....its more of how much he is turning over the puck, which as I said in the other thread he must be injured b/c I have never seen someone of his caliber fumble so many pucks, or whiff on a number of passes.

[Pete]

29 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said:

and can and will sound alarm bells in Drurys office. 

It shouldn't, and it won't. This is fanspeak.