Fire DQ, Hire Brucey B, ????, Profit!!!

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

Yes, second ranked player in draft. Which doesn't mean a lot today. But he's got an entire career to turn it around.

 

But he was defintely not "trash" before he got to the US (and Quinn), that was my point.

 

Kakko and Laf will be fine, but its not a good look that our two best prospects looks like garbage playing under Quinn.

 

Kakko looks better this season, but that's mainly because he's gotten faster and stronger and knows more about the NHL now. Its not like Quinn has made him a better player. And if that is to repeat itself with Laf (it looks like it) we might end up wasting two potential franchise players because we got a coach that dont know what to do.

[Bugg]

"The Rangers have either been in the lead or tied through two periods in 11 of their 14 contests. Yet, they have won merely four times." Larry Brooks

 

What the hell is being said during the 2nd intermission? Is there a serious conditioning issue? There's no way given the circumstances the Devils should have had more jump in the 3rd last night,and yet they did.

[Pete]

But he was defintely not "trash" before he got to the US (and Quinn), that was my point.

 

Kakko and Laf will be fine, but its not a good look that our two best prospects looks like garbage playing under Quinn.

 

Kakko looks better this season, but that's mainly because he's gotten faster and stronger and knows more about the NHL now. Its not like Quinn has made him a better player. And if that is to repeat itself with Laf (it looks like it) we might end up wasting two potential franchise players because we got a coach that dont know what to do.

 

We can agree to disagree. The coach doesn't get faulted when the player plays poorly and no credit when the player plays better. Panarin was one of the best players in the NHL last year, and so was Zib, Kakko was statistically the worst. That's not solely on the coach. Talent and skill should be able to overcome bad coaching, and in the case of Laf this year and Kakko last year, that's not happening.

 

It's not a Quinn-thing that Lafreniere is completely invisible and never has the puck. At some point determination and desire to make a difference and take over a game come into play. Laf just looks disinterested.

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

We can agree to disagree. The coach doesn't get faulted when the player plays poorly and no credit when the player plays better. Panarin was one of the best players in the NHL last year, and so was Zib, Kakko was statistically the worst. That's not solely on the coach. Talent and skill should be able to overcome bad coaching, and in the case of Laf this year and Kakko last year, that's not happening.

 

It's not a Quinn-thing that Lafreniere is completely invisible and never has the puck. At some point determination and desire to make a difference and take over a game come into play. Laf just looks disinterested.

 

And why do you think the #1OA pick looks disinterested in his first NHL season? A moment he's looked forward to atleast 10 years now.

 

Maybe its because he has no idea what to do, and that the coach is not helping him at all?

 

If it happens once, then fine, there may be a problem with the player. When it happens twice in two years with two of the most talented players in the world? There has to be something else then just the player not playing good enough.

 

Not a single forward prospect has made any progress with Quinn. Andersson? bust. Howden? Started good, then had breakfast with Quinn everyday and turned into shit. Kakko? Horrible. Laf? Invisible and bad. Chytil? Looked good in 5 games in his 4th season now, not really anything special before that. Not taken any steps forward.

 

Without Mika and Panarin playing like gods they're not scoring goals. And that's because of lack of a system or a plan. They dont know what to do, and with young players that's new to the NHL you see it even clearer. They need coaching.

[Pete]

And why do you think the #1OA pick looks disinterested in his first NHL season? A moment he's looked forward to atleast 10 years now.

 

Maybe its because he has no idea what to do, and that the coach is not helping him at all?

 

If it happens once, then fine, there may be a problem with the player. When it happens twice in two years with two of the most talented players in the world? There has to be something else then just the player not playing good enough.

 

Not a single forward prospect has made any progress with Quinn. Andersson? bust. Howden? Started good, then had breakfast with Quinn everyday and turned into shit. Kakko? Horrible. Laf? Invisible and bad. Chytil? Looked good in 5 games in his 4th season now, not really anything special before that. Not taken any steps forward.

 

Without Mika and Panarin playing like gods they're not scoring goals. And that's because of lack of a system or a plan. They dont know what to do, and with young players that's new to the NHL you see it even clearer. They need coaching.

And yet the D, who play a harder position to acclimate to with no system, all look great. Fox, ADA, Lindgren, Miller, even Hajek recently.

 

Not going to argue with you anymore, your mind is made up. We don't have to agree. :cheers:

[Morphinity 2.0]

We can agree to disagree. The coach doesn't get faulted when the player plays poorly and no credit when the player plays better. Panarin was one of the best players in the NHL last year, and so was Zib, Kakko was statistically the worst. That's not solely on the coach. Talent and skill should be able to overcome bad coaching, and in the case of Laf this year and Kakko last year, that's not happening.

 

It's not a Quinn-thing that Lafreniere is completely invisible and never has the puck. At some point determination and desire to make a difference and take over a game come into play. Laf just looks disinterested.

 

I don't think we can completely absolve Quinn. It looks to me like Laf is just straight up confused half the time, unsure of what the right play is - which says a lot about a guy whose hockey IQ was meant to be his best asset. So either the scouts were wrong, the game is too fast for him, or something about the coach's "system" is not clicking - probably is a combination of all 3.

[Pete]

I don't think we can completely absolve Quinn. It looks to me like Laf is just straight up confused half the time, unsure of what the right play is - which says a lot about a guy whose hockey IQ was meant to be his best asset. So either the scouts were wrong, the game is too fast for him, or something about the coach's "system" is not clicking - probably is a combination of all 3.

 

Yes agree, I'm not completely absolving Quinn, at all. If the team had more structure, the game would be easier for Laf. He'd have less to "figure out". But, he just doesn't want the puck, at all. He's not even trying to do it all himself (something Kakko was guilty of last year). His compete level is trash (also touted to be an asset). I just can't blame that all on Quinn.

 

Agree with you, it's a combination. Put it this way, I think the Rangers need to move on from Quinn (and likely won't be this year), but I don't fault him with nearly as much as others do. As I said, I don't think another coach stops Zib, Kreider and Trouba from being abjectly awful...And it's hard to win missing 2/3 your top line and 1/2 your first D pair.

[Blue Heaven]

Kakko 79 GP, 12 Goals, 14 Assists, 26 Points

Hughes 71 GP, 10 Goals, 19 Assists, 29 Points

 

I guess we got to give Kakko some more time b/c Hughes isnt doing much better with more playing time than Kakko.

[siddious]

Yes agree, I'm not completely absolving Quinn, at all. If the team had more structure, the game would be easier for Laf. He'd have less to "figure out". But, he just doesn't want the puck, at all. He's not even trying to do it all himself (something Kakko was guilty of last year). His compete level is trash (also touted to be an asset). I just can't blame that all on Quinn.

 

Agree with you, it's a combination. Put it this way, I think the Rangers need to move on from Quinn (and likely won't be this year), but I don't fault him with nearly as much as others do. As I said, I don't think another coach stops Zib, Kreider and Trouba from being abjectly awful...And it's hard to win missing 2/3 your top line and 1/2 your first D pair.

 

Agree with this. I had such high hopes for Quinn too. I mean I knew there would be a learning curve with the coach seeing as it was his first NHL gig but he seemed to have the resume to do it and was saying the right things.

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

trying not to overreact after last night. Our best player and one of our best Dmen were out, and the offense as a whole is struggling. Not sure how much you can blame Quinn for the fact that Zibanejad went from looking like an elite dynamic, true #1 center to being completely unable to score.

 

But last night just sucked. I was very much in the keep Quinn camp. After last night, I'll be honest, I think I'm starting to steer the other way. I can't even really point to one specific reason why, and maybe its just my gut but like, that was flat. They had some chances, sure. But if not for Shesterkin we probably would have been down 5-0 after the first and that's a whole different game

[Mike]

Lets think about how fun it was to watch certain teams under Torts and AV. Now lets think about how much fun it’s been watching any of Quinn’s teams other than a lucky 2 week hot streak. Zero identity. Zero determination. Zero chemistry. Zero structure.

[Pete]

Lets think about how fun it was to watch certain teams under Torts and AV. Now lets think about how much fun it’s been watching any of Quinn’s teams other than a lucky 2 week hot streak. Zero identity. Zero determination. Zero chemistry. Zero structure.

Completely agree. Games are boring and filled with WTF moments.

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

Lets think about how fun it was to watch certain teams under Torts and AV. Now lets think about how much fun it’s been watching any of Quinn’s teams other than a lucky 2 week hot streak. Zero identity. Zero determination. Zero chemistry. Zero structure.

 

For like the 4 games before last night's debacle I'd argue the opposite. Tons of defenseive structure. probably our best 4 games all year and we went 1-3. A lot of that record though has to do with everyone being cold at the same time.

 

Last night was a shit show though.

[Kevin]

For like the 4 games before last night's debacle I'd argue the opposite. Tons of defenseive structure. probably our best 4 games all year and we went 1-3. A lot of that record though has to do with everyone being cold at the same time.

 

Last night was a shit show though.

Definitely was a shit show. Just so loose in all zones. The devils were generating great scoring chances routinely. If it wasn't for shesty early this game could have easily been 2 or 3 - 0 after the 1st. The Rangers had no neutral zone pressure, no offensive zone continuity, and horrible defensive zone coverages for basically 60 minutes. The lack of adjustments is the frightening part of this coaching staff to me.

 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

[Pete]

Definitely was a shit show. Just so loose in all zones. The devils were generating great scoring chances routinely. If it wasn't for shesty early this game could have easily been 2 or 3 - 0 after the 1st. The Rangers had no neutral zone pressure, no offensive zone continuity, and horrible defensive zone coverages for basically 60 minutes. The lack of adjustments is the frightening part of this coaching staff to me.

 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

Also wonder how much Ruff's familiarity with Quinn played into the domination.

[ThirtyONE]

I do wonder how long a leash DQ has. Even if management didn't expect Panarin, Zibanejad, Tony D, and Strome to replicate their career years and thought this team might take a step back, I can't image they thought it would look like this. Are they willing to let this year just be a total waste?

 

I'm concerned that when Panarin comes back, Lafreniere and Kakko will take a back seat again. A couple of week ago people said they weren't getting shafted on TOI and then listed 6 players getting more ice time. At this point, aside from Panarin, they should be playing over everyone.

[Phil]

I can promise you that the Rangers do not believe their problem lies behind the bench with the head coach. No one in the team hierarchy wants to point a finger at David Quinn. No one wants to have to make a coaching change.

 

But games such as this one, in which the Blueshirts took a full-faced pratfall on the Garden ice in losing 5-2 to a Devils team that hadn’t played a game since Jan. 31 and had only one practice with which to prep … well, games such as this may force club president John Davidson to ask some pointed questions about just what the hell is going on here?

 

Quinn, who appeared as downcast during his postgame Zoom call with the media as he has through the two-plus years of his tenure, was asked whether this was about effort.

 

“Uh, yeah,” he said, appearing as beaten as his team.

 

When a team loses because of effort, does at least some of it have to bounce back on the coach? I’ll answer that: Uh, yeah.

 

All of the improvements in the defensive zone — well, not over these final 20 minutes in which the Blueshirts went without the injured Jacob Trouba — don’t seem to amount to a hill of beans compared to the issues this club seems to be facing.

 

“For a majority of the game they out-hit us, out-skated us, outworked us, won the majority of the battles,” Kreider said. “I mean, chances aside, we got away from the things we had been doing well.”

 

This, then, the money quote from Kid K: “They flat-out wanted it more. It’s unacceptable.”

 

Hey, you know what? Kreider has not drawn a single penalty this season while taking six, including a delay of game in the first period. And Zibanejad has drawn exactly one while taking five, including a second-period elbow he contested and for which he was in the box for Pavel Zacha’s power-play goal.

 

Again, though, these are the individual trees through which the forest might not be visible. The only reason the Rangers were even in the game in the second was because Shesterkin was 2019-20 lights-out through the opening 20 minutes. OK, Artemi Panarin was sidelined for the second straight game, but that doesn’t even come close to explaining the club’s maladies.

 

https://nypost.com/2021/02/16/unacceptable-rangers-cant-avoid-david-quinn-blame-game-anymore/

[ThirtyONE]

If Brooks is going to write an article about firing the coach he'd make a better case by talking about the full season, not just a single game.

[Keirik]

We are currently in step 0 of a 3 year tenure. It was never a good idea to have zero experience behind the bench with a large chunk of a team that has minimal experience on the ice and no actual leadership from the ones that do. It’s been a debacle.

 

Even when we look at a team like Tampa that took so long to get to the top, a guy like Stamkos went through 3 coaches before Cooper got there. Melrose, Tocchet, Boucher, then Cooper. Thank Quinn for what he’s done and move on. It’s just time.

[Phil]

We are currently in step 0 of a 3 year tenure. It was never a good idea to have zero experience behind the bench with a large chunk of a team that has minimal experience on the ice and no actual leadership from the ones that do. It’s been a debacle.

 

Even when we look at a team like Tampa that took so long to get to the top, a guy like Stamkos went through 3 coaches before Cooper got there. Melrose, Tocchet, Boucher, then Cooper. Thank Quinn for what he’s done and move on. It’s just time.

 

Stamkos rebounded instantly after they fired Melrose and put up 51 goals in his second season.

[Keirik]

Stamkos rebounded instantly after they fired Melrose and put up 51 goals in his second season.

 

I think we would see a lot of rebounding like that but that’s just my personal opinion. Nothing against Quinn personally but sometimes it’s just round peg square hole

[Pete]

Stamkos rebounded instantly after they fired Melrose and put up 51 goals in his second season.

You keep pointing to one example because that's really the only example.

 

Eichel had no problem putting up points with 2 horrendous coaches early in his career. Same with Hall, Tavares, etc.

 

I can point to more 1OAs who had success with bad coaching than you can point to those who struggled do to coaching.

 

I wouldn't expect an instant rebound with Lafrienere. The offense should seem apparent, outside the coach.

 

17 minutes last night, zero shots on goal. Strome had 3 and Kakko 5. That's not coaching.

[Sharpshooter]

Dare I say Lafreniere has look disinterested at times? Is that fair? Sometimes you can't tell if he's even playing.

[Phil]

You keep pointing to one example... Eichel had no problem putting up points with 2 horrendous coaches. Same with Hall.

 

I wouldn't expect an instant rebound with Lafrienere. The offense should seem apparent, outside the coach.

 

17 minutes last night, zero shots on goal. Strome had 3 and Kakko 5. That's not coaching.

 

Yes, because it is analagous. Eichel isn't. He didn't suffer the same struggles. He made an immediate impact. He had six goals through his first 15 games. He put up a 56-point rookie year.

 

Kakko also completely lacked a rookie impact. He was by almost every statistical measure, the worst NHL forward in the entire NHL, in fact. Certainly the worst rookie. He's improved in year two. I have no reason to doubt Lafreniere will, too, but my point stands that two top-of-class, billed as offensively dynamic players were taken second- and first-overall respectively, utterly flopped for this coach. Is that his fault? I don't know. I'm not making that claim. I'm simply pointing out a similar situation in which another top-of-class, billed as offensively dynamic player went through a similar rut before a coaching change was made. Then he exploded.

 

I'm not even saying that's what will happen to Lafreniere. I'm saying that's what did happen for Stamkos, so maybe that's the answer here, too?

[Pete]

Yes, because it is analagous. Eichel isn't. He didn't suffer the same struggles. He made an immediate impact. He had six goals through his first 15 games. He put up a 56-point rookie year.

That's my point. A first overall being held back by a coach and then immediately flipping the switch after the coaches fired is an edge case.

 

Normally, first overalls come in and perform. They don't need to be generational talents. Their talent just took over and they did what they do, regardless of having inept coaches. The fact that Laf can't do that is as much on him as it is on Quinn. That's why I wouldn't expect much of a rebound if they fired Quinn tomorrow.