[friedman] DeAngelo Clears Waivers Following Fight with Georgiev; Won't Play for Rangers Again

[josh]

Horrible management by every party involved. He played what, like 150 or so games for this franchise before this season? Who in this organization didn’t know that he’s mercurial? So you have the opportunity to walk away but you don’t. Why? Because he’s fucking talented. Very talented. It’s 100% understandable to not walk away from that. But Once you don’t, and you sign him to TWO years, drawing that line in the sand after one game is just further mismanagement when you damn well know Quinn and ADA are going to butt heads. They even said ADA couldn’t get over the benching. And apparently they knew it, knew they had drawn the line in the sand, had previously tried unsuccessfully to trade him, possibly BOTH before and after re-upping with no good success. Why, on gods green earth, did the organization decide to NOT step in, sit this guy down long term privately when they knew he wasn’t doing well and it was a matter of time?

 

Listen I get it’s ultimately ADAs fault. It is. But this organization is ran by a nearly 70 year old President in JD that’s been in every aspect of the game over 50 years and a 50 something old GM in Jeff Gorton that’s been in management since the 1990s. Neither of those two knew this was on its way to happening with all that experience ? Quinn I sort of understand. He doesn’t know wtf to do in day to day management let alone how to handle that also, but the other two didn’t see this?

 

ADA is a douche, but he’s 24. Not 17 so he should know better but he’s still only 24 and obviously needs some sort of actual help. To me they almost left him to flounder knowing damn well what was on its way to happening and, if some of you guys are right, almost lost a hockey club along the way from handling this whole thing like a circus.

 

Shut up, right winger. Your opinion was already deemed wrong.

[Keirik]

You're conveniently ignoring the constant repeated refrain from MSG leadership that this was a long string of events for DeAngelo. And, again, we do not know what happened with Georgiev. He might have been fined. He might have lost starts. We have no idea. DeAngelo might have said something to him that half the team heard and they all agreed Georgiev went lightly on him.

 

What we do know is this: No guy should be allowed to just go around his workplace talking shit to his co-workers, actively hurting his team outcomes both on-ice and off, acting like a poor teammate when he doesn't get his way, disrespecting his boss, and goading his teammates into fights. You want to work somewhere like that?At your workplace, does that stand? Do you think it should?

 

It's honestly painful watching the board right-wing crew twist themselves into pretzels to defend any of this behavior solely to get angry at...what? Just to stan whatever perception of cancel culture makes it okay to be a dick to all your coworkers with no consequences?

 

It’s pretty painful to try and have conversations about a guy on the team to have another member just minimize it to “right wing” vs “left wing” ideologies about it

Just saying. Honestly, is it even necessary to say that?

[LindG1000]

Horrible management by every party involved. He played what, like 150 or so games for this franchise before this season? Who in this organization didn’t know that he’s mercurial? So you have the opportunity to walk away but you don’t. Why? Because he’s fucking talented. Very talented. It’s 100% understandable to not walk away from that. But Once you don’t, and you sign him to TWO years, drawing that line in the sand after one game is just further mismanagement when you damn well know Quinn and ADA are going to butt heads. They even said ADA couldn’t get over the benching. And apparently they knew it, knew they had drawn the line in the sand, had previously tried unsuccessfully to trade him, possibly BOTH before and after re-upping with no good success. Why, on gods green earth, did the organization decide to NOT step in, sit this guy down long term privately when they knew he wasn’t doing well and it was a matter of time?

 

Man, they DID. They had the conversation after his benching. They probably had this conversation when they acquired him too. Complete speculation, but I'm willing to bet they had it at least once more at some point between those two. There's only so many times you can tell a guy to get his head on straight before you stop thinking about how fucking talented he is and start thinking about whether or not he's actually worth the headache. Bluntly, ADA is stupid talented and is still the fourth most important RD in the organization. He doesn't see it that way, but it's absolutely the case.

 

Listen I get it’s ultimately ADAs fault. It is. But this organization is ran by a nearly 70 year old President in JD that’s been in every aspect of the game over 50 years and a 50 something old GM in Jeff Gorton that’s been in management since the 1990s. Neither of those two knew this was on its way to happening with all that experience ? Quinn I sort of understand. He doesn’t know wtf to do in day to day management let alone how to handle that also, but the other two didn’t see this?

 

I think they did. That's why they were desperately trying to trade him before and after the contract. I don't think they were under much of any delusion besides "fuck, if we take this guy to arbitration, we're never trading him". They'd have had to publicly assassinate the guy; his value would have been shot.

 

ADA is a douche, but he’s 24. Not 17 so he should know better but he’s still only 24 and obviously needs some sort of actual help. To me they almost left him to flounder knowing damn well what was on its way to happening and, if some of you guys are right, almost lost a hockey club along the way from handling this whole thing like a circus.

 

There's only so much you can do. He's been this way since he was 16. It's been 9 years. Nothing's changed. Quinn was literally the only coach that reached him, and even then, getting even remotely tough on ADA...he snapped right back. He needs to want to be helped before you can just give it to him. You can just keep giving him a pass, but if it's anything like the other passes he's gotten since last March, they'll hop right over his stick and out of the zone anyway.

 

Again, speculation, but I think you're right that there's almost certainly an element of "what are we going to lose if we don't just cut bait now?" to this.

[LindG1000]

It’s pretty painful to try and have conversations about a guy on the team to have another member just minimize it to “right wing” vs “left wing” ideologies about it

Just saying. Honestly, is it even necessary to say that?

 

No, it's not. Fair point.

[Pete]

It was four games lmao.

It's amazing ain't it? Now he was bad at his job LOL...what in the ever loving fuck? That is exactly why we can't take anyone's word for it when they say it had nothing to do with DeAngelo's off the ice opinions. There's no logical argument to say a 60 point defenseman was bad at his job for 4 games, therefore he gets the boot. Someone only says that when they are looking to back up other narratives (i.e., they hate his opinions and fuel their hatred with anything, including misrepresenting his play on ice).

 

He's not here anymore for off the ice stuff, both in the locker room AND outside of the locker room. Period. It has zero to do with on ice performance over 4 games given what he accomplished last season.

I mean... We have people here dragging Strome and even Zib for a bad 6-7 games... So how's it different?

[Pete]

Horrible management by every party involved. He played what, like 150 or so games for this franchise before this season? Who in this organization didn?t know that he?s mercurial? So you have the opportunity to walk away but you don?t. Why? Because he?s fucking talented. Very talented. It?s 100% understandable to not walk away from that. But Once you don?t, and you sign him to TWO years, drawing that line in the sand after one game is just further mismanagement when you damn well know Quinn and ADA are going to butt heads. They even said ADA couldn?t get over the benching. And apparently they knew it, knew they had drawn the line in the sand, had previously tried unsuccessfully to trade him, possibly BOTH before and after re-upping with no good success. Why, on gods green earth, did the organization decide to NOT step in, sit this guy down long term privately when they knew he wasn?t doing well and it was a matter of time?

 

Listen I get it?s ultimately ADAs fault. It is. But this organization is ran by a nearly 70 year old President in JD that?s been in every aspect of the game over 50 years and a 50 something old GM in Jeff Gorton that?s been in management since the 1990s. Neither of those two knew this was on its way to happening with all that experience ? Quinn I sort of understand. He doesn?t know wtf to do in day to day management let alone how to handle that also, but the other two didn?t see this?

 

ADA is a douche, but he?s 24. Not 17 so he should know better but he?s still only 24 and obviously needs some sort of actual help. To me they almost left him to flounder knowing damn well what was on its way to happening and, if some of you guys are right, almost lost a hockey club along the way from handling this whole thing like a circus.

Nah. ADA seemed like he turned a corner last year. The Rangers showed him some good will and gave him a 2 year deal. How did he repay them? I took him 1 game to show he's the same immature player. He was on a zero tolerance program so he got benched. Then they outright told him he's being waived if anything else happened and he couldn't keep his mouth shut so he's gone.

 

We need to stop acting like there's equal blame here. Quinn has every right to discipline his team. Full stop.

 

If anything, the Rangers are guilty of giving this much support to a player like him.

[BrooksBurner]

I mean... We have people here dragging Strome and even Zib for a bad 6-7 games... So how's it different?

 

Pointing out (correctly) short term struggles in play is not the same as labeling players bad at their job though.

[RodrigueGabriel]

Nah. ADA seemed like he turned a corner last year. The Rangers showed him some good will and gave him a 2 year deal. How did he repay them? I took him 1 game to show he's the same immature player. He was on a zero tolerance program so he got benched. Then they outright told him he's being waived if anything else happened and he couldn't keep his mouth shut so he's gone.

 

We need to stop acting like there's equal blame here. Quinn has every right to discipline his team. Full stop.

 

If anything, the Rangers are guilty of giving this much support to a player like him.

Yeah. I really hoped that having the evidence of a highly successful season under his belt - if you focus on what hockey demands both on and off the ice you succeed, if you succeed you get paid and earn yourself a longer term spot on the team and the chance to really build a career - was persuasive enough for him to stay in lane. It had the potential for a really potent and even poignant success story.

 

As Mercogliano wondered aloud, maybe COVID left him with not enough to do and he got even more wrapped around the social media axle.

 

I've spent enough of my life crafting public messages to know that JD and Gorton considered what they were going to say very carefully and that what they said was intended not to fuel the fire, whether it was to protect Tony's future or his trade value. (Probably some of both.)

 

The first person to speak on this, however, was Quinn on Sunday afternoon and the first thing he said was "This isn't about one incident. It's not about one thing." I'm going with that as the most honest and unsculpted thing said by the Rangers. The scuffle was just the final factor in a long equation.

 

 

 

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[Pete]

Pointing out (correctly) short term struggles in play is not the same as labeling players bad at their job though.

 

Who cares if it's correct LOL? That's not the issue.

 

DeAngelo's job is not only to perform on the ice, it's also to:

- Be a good teammate by not ragging your goalie after a bad game, or take a selfish extra minor by slamming a door

- Not harm the Rangers brand by trying to fight fans on Twitter or deny COVID when the city you play for was ravaged by it

- Not be insubordinate and whine when your coach benches you for something you've already been disciplined for before

 

Now, I know it's not apples to apples but let's do a comparison of two players here, stay with me haha...

 

Both Strome and ADA:

- Had career years playing with Panarin

- Were being shopped in the offseason

- Take bad penalties

- Have conservative political views

 

The difference is that Strome is a good dude and the penalties he takes aren't of the immature and selfish variety, yet fans can't wait to get rid of him and whine about him after a bad 4-5 games...But somehow ADA is beyond reproach here.

 

It makes zero sense. This is all about ADA being an asshole from just about the second he got here, and that's why he's not here anymore.

[Dunny]

I think we're making progress. He's gone from noted white supremacist Tony Deangelo to asshole in only a week. With stops and Tw*t Rocket and C*nt in between.

[josh]

Who cares if it's correct LOL? That's not the issue.

 

DeAngelo's job is not only to perform on the ice, it's also to:

- Be a good teammate by not ragging your goalie after a bad game, or take a selfish extra minor by slamming a door

- Not harm the Rangers brand by trying to fight fans on Twitter or deny COVID when the city you play for was ravaged by it

- Not be insubordinate and whine when your coach benches you for something you've already been disciplined for before

 

Now, I know it's not apples to apples but let's do a comparison of two players here, stay with me haha...

 

Both Strome and ADA:

- Had career years playing with Panarin

- Were being shopped in the offseason

- Take bad penalties

- Have conservative political views

 

The difference is that Strome is a good dude and the penalties he takes aren't of the immature and selfish variety, yet fans can't wait to get rid of him and whine about him after a bad 4-5 games...But somehow ADA is beyond reproach here.

 

It makes zero sense. This is all about ADA being an asshole from just about the second he got here, and that's why he's not here anymore.

 

And that's fine if Quinn got rid of an asshole. His choice as a coach. If it was more than that, he would be suspended without pay.

 

Hurts to lose that talent for nothing, regardless. But, if the team comes together over this situation, and improves, then it will be forgotten.

[RodrigueGabriel]

Without dwelling on Mercogliano's podcast (even if I apparently am), we haven't really talked about what happens behind the scenes when Tony says something controversial on Twitter. The PR office gets calls and contacts. That news certainly reaches JD and Gorton from below. I would be very surprised if Dolan doesn't get calls from rich liberal friends. That reaches Gorton and JD from above. They then have to decide whether to do anything about it and, if so, what. Anything they might do to respond risks equal and opposite blowback from the other side of the political spectrum.

 

I'm sure that mgt. respects Tony's right to express himself (or at least needs to operate as if it does). I doubt anyone in the org looks down on him purely for supporting Trump. But Tony's right to express himself makes work for everyone else that is both additive and not fundamental to their core jobs. And I suspect that the volume of that unwanted impact on the organization wore them down over time to where even 53 assists were not worth the trouble.

 

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[Pete]

Without dwelling on Mercogliano's podcast (even if I apparently am), we haven't really talked about what like happens behind the scenes when Tony says something controversial on Twitter. The PR office gets calls and contacts. That news certainly reaches JD and Gorton from below. I would be very surprised if Dolan doesn't get calls from rich liberal friends. That reaches Gorton and JD from above. They then have to decide whether to do anything about it and, if so, what. Anything they might do to respond risks equal and opposite blowback from the other side of the political spectrum.

 

I'm sure that mgt. respects Tony's right to express himself (or at least needs to operate as if it does). I doubt anyone in the org looks down on him purely for supporting Trump. But Tony's right to express himself makes work for everyone else that is both additive and not fundamental to their core jobs. And I suspect that the volume of that unwanted impact on the organization wore them down over time to where even 53 assists were not worth the trouble.

 

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Also, think of the calls from the Mayor and Governor when one of the stars on the team, a fairly local kid, starts denying COVID...

[Dunny]

Without dwelling on Mercogliano's podcast (even if I apparently am), we haven't really talked about what like happens behind the scenes when Tony says something controversial on Twitter. The PR office gets calls and contacts. That news certainly reaches JD and Gorton from below. I would be very surprised if Dolan doesn't get calls from rich liberal friends. That reaches Gorton and JD from above. They then have to decide whether to do anything about it and, if so, what. Anything they might do to respond risks equal and opposite blowback from the other side of the political spectrum.

 

I'm sure that mgt. respects Tony's right to express himself (or at least needs to operate as if it does). I doubt anyone in the org looks down on him purely for supporting Trump. But Tony's right to express himself makes work for everyone else that is both additive and not fundamental to their core jobs. And I suspect that the volume of that unwanted impact on the organization wore them down over time to where even 53 assists were not worth the trouble.

 

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Actually, thanks for dwelling on it. I listened to it on my way home last night because you pointed it out. It was, IMO, the most even handed assessment of the situation, by somebody who actually has some insight.

[josh]

Without dwelling on Mercogliano's podcast (even if I apparently am), we haven't really talked about what like happens behind the scenes when Tony says something controversial on Twitter. The PR office gets calls and contacts. That news certainly reaches JD and Gorton from below. I would be very surprised if Dolan doesn't get calls from rich liberal friends. That reaches Gorton and JD from above. They then have to decide whether to do anything about it and, if so, what. Anything they might do to respond risks equal and opposite blowback from the other side of the political spectrum.

 

I'm sure that mgt. respects Tony's right to express himself (or at least needs to operate as if it does). I doubt anyone in the org looks down on him purely for supporting Trump. But Tony's right to express himself makes work for everyone else that is both additive and not fundamental to their core jobs. And I suspect that the volume of that unwanted impact on the organization wore them down over time to where even 53 assists were not worth the trouble.

 

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From a personal stand-point, its not always what that person is doing, it's the fact that youre always hearing about that person. And it's obvious his name came up too much.

 

Management said it wasnt about his social media, political stance, etc, and I believe that. But that's doesnt mean hearing constant complaints about it doesnt factor into their decision to waive/move him.

[josh]

Actually, thanks for dwelling on it. I listened to it on my way home last night because you pointed it out. It was, IMO, the most even handed assessment of the situation, by somebody who actually has some insight.

 

I might give a listen. Vince was one of the first guys (on day two), who finally came out and starting calling BS. He also discussed how he saw players interact with ADA in the lockerroom, the next day followed up with more insight that he was on the outs among teammates. He was saying there's more to this, and not what the fans are trying to make it.

 

Is he the one that reported some of the players wanted ADA to get an A? I cant remember who reported that.

[Keirik]

Nah. ADA seemed like he turned a corner last year. The Rangers showed him some good will and gave him a 2 year deal. How did he repay them? I took him 1 game to show he's the same immature player. He was on a zero tolerance program so he got benched. Then they outright told him he's being waived if anything else happened and he couldn't keep his mouth shut so he's gone.

 

We need to stop acting like there's equal blame here. Quinn has every right to discipline his team. Full stop.

 

If anything, the Rangers are guilty of giving this much support to a player like him.

 

Correct. He has every right to do so. It’s too bad he only does so when it comes to certain players though but I digress. But my point, and you’re right, the higher ups showed some good will and faith in ADA since he had turned the corner. Must have been pretty confusing then when two periods into the season in a game where the entire team plays like bad guano that he got singled out as needing to be sat down for further games. Like I said, there was zero reason to not just bury that game afterwards and move on instead of saying the whole team stunk but you specifically ADA, you need to watch from the press box because you slammed the penalty box door.

 

Not equal blame but I do think there is blame all around and the guys with 30 and 50 years experience in the league could have done a better job with this mental midget since he clearly needs help and has to be handled differently than a different player. Game 2 of a season really isn’t the right time in my opinion unless you are actually looking to make a scapegoat for the rest of the team knowing full well there’s a chance this happens. His benching for the rest of game 1 was enough to me.

 

Instead the meltdown happened and that’s on ADA.

[RodrigueGabriel]

I might give a listen. Vince was one of the first guys (on day two), who finally came out and starting calling BS. He also discussed how he saw players interact with ADA in the lockerroom, the next day followed up with more insight that he was on the outs among teammates. He was saying there's more to this, and not what the fans are trying to make it.

 

Is he the one that reported some of the players wanted ADA to get an A? I cant remember who reported that.

 

Yes, he's not the historical gray eminence of Brooks or the well-worn sweater of Carpiniello - which is all kind of refreshing. He's a young hustler who's doing the work, who also seems to appreciate how lucky he is to be in that spot.

[Pete]

Correct. He has every right to do so. It?s too bad he only does so when it comes to certain players though but I digress. But my point, and you?re right, the higher ups showed some good will and faith in ADA since he had turned the corner. Must have been pretty confusing then when two periods into the season in a game where the entire team plays like bad guano that he got singled out as needing to be sat down for further games. Like I said, there was zero reason to not just bury that game afterwards and move on instead of saying the whole team stunk but you specifically ADA, you need to watch from the press box because you slammed the penalty box door.

 

Not equal blame but I do think there is blame all around and the guys with 30 and 50 years experience in the league could have done a better job with this mental midget since he clearly needs help and has to be handled differently than a different player. Game 2 of a season really isn?t the right time in my opinion unless you are actually looking to make a scapegoat for the rest of the team knowing full well there?s a chance this happens. His benching for the rest of game 1 was enough to me.

 

Instead the meltdown happened and that?s on ADA.

Not every players requires the same level or method of discipline.

 

I'm not sure why the benching would have confused Tony. He was talked to multiple times about his behavior. The guy just doesn't get it the same way he was told he'd be waived if there was another incident, he just couldn't keep his mouth shut to Geo.

 

And, once again, it has nothing to do with who played bad, it had to do with who slammed the door to the Penalty box and took another minor. Had he showed that kind of passion on the ice, the outcome might have been different.

[The Dude]

I don't understand why this is so hard to grasp. An issue that basically boiled down to "well, he never got over strike 30 so we finally chucked him after strike 31" isn't the reason why we're here. It's because there were actually 31 (or whatever) strikes.

 

Look, push to shove, the best take I've heard so far on DeAngelo was Sean McIndoe - "It's so sad that cancel culture has gotten to the point where being bad at your job and getting in a fistfight with your coworker gets you fired." Because...yeah, he was playing like rotten garbage, and he clearly couldn't compartmentalize it like a professional. His team looks leaps and bounds better without him on the ice. The superstar forward and starting goalie are literally making fun of him and having fake goalie-skater fist fights post-win. Let's not sit here and pretend that his being out of the locker room hasn't fundamentally changed something, because it's painfully obvious it has.

 

If you don't think what DeAngelo did, even in the short term, was all that bad - just imagine you pulled the same thing at your work - how would your boss handle that?

 

The other day I told Greg he fucked up the location of a fire sprinkler head. He did not punch me.

 

I was not fired.

 

A month ago my supervisor told me I didn't have much time to finish a project. I said that was bullshit and I need fucking manpower on the job. I didn't get told to stay home for 2 days of work..

 

Do not adapt hockey happenings to real life happenings.

 

30 strikes now? LMAO, you people will make up anything.

[LindG1000]

The other day I told Greg he fucked up the location of a fire sprinkler head. He did not punch me.

 

I was not fired.

 

A month ago my supervisor told me I didn't have much time to finish a project. I said that was bullshit and I need fucking manpower on the job. I didn't get told to stay home for 2 days of work..

 

So, what you're saying is that you've got a workplace that tolerates swearing and the occasional mistake. That's great for you. Was that the first time Greg fucked up? Is he going to do it again? Or is this Greg's latest in a string of fuck-ups and you or your supervisor are just too dense to fire him?

 

Do not adapt hockey happenings to real life happenings.

 

I didn't realize there was specific exceptionalism to reality when it came to pro sports. Poor performance doesn't get managed in pro sports? Mistakes don't have consequences? Being an asshole to your teammates and a liability to the company isn't the same, because he's an athlete?

 

In one respect, you're right. He's a public figure, which holds him to a higher standard, not a lower one. I know the analogy just shoots holes in the narrative you like, but it holds up for a reason.

 

30 strikes now? LMAO, you people will make up anything.

 

Right, because the obvious "or whatever he was at" after that clearly meant it was intended to be taken as a serious number. The overarching point that you seem completely unwilling or unable to process is that this isn't about one event. It's about a long, long string of events, of which we're seeing just the tail end of. If you think he's being cut for slamming a door and making a snide comment, you're confidently incorrect.

[The Dude]

That's not his argument. His argument is that he was bad at his job. Which - if he can't deal with in-game bad breaks without throwing a tantrum, can't take feedback, he can't control his emotions, he can't not be a dick to his teammates, and apparently, can't even do what we're paying him to do on the ice (seriously, go look at his play this year and tell me he was doing his job with a straight face) - yeah, he's bad at his job.

 

This is just unreal. The entire team had looked terrible. The offense was DEAD. It still IS. It most certainly was not performance related. You don't waive a guy who can produce at the clip he produced last season. If it were game 25 you'd have a legit gripe 6 games in, no pre season, top center producing just as little... How is that a fair gauging of his production?

 

BTW, is it possible the joke between Panarin and Shestyorkin was a dig at Georgiev?

 

As for those who say there was a constant rift between Georgiev and DeAngelo, and was a locker room cancer, this video would suggest otherwise.

 

[Pete]

Yes, Rangers fan-facing content is probably the best gauge as to what really happens inside a locker room.

[Keirik]

Which podcast are we talking about? I'm all for honest interpretations

[LindG1000]

This is just unreal. The entire team had looked terrible. The offense was DEAD. It still IS. It most certainly was not performance related. You don't waive a guy who can produce at the clip he produced last season. If it were game 25 you'd have a legit gripe 6 games in, no pre season, top center producing just as little... How is that a fair gauging of his production?

 

If you'd like to defend his play by blaming the rest of the team, you're missing the part where he's part of the team and if he's such a key offensive cog, why he didn't do anything to change that. As I said in another post, you could have given him a pass, but based on what he's been doing, it'd just skip right over his stick and into the neutral zone.

 

If you'd like to defend his play with outcomes...by all means. I'm all ears, because his outcomes paint the picture of a lazy, uninterested, and frankly, bad player.

 

If you'd like to defend his play with the past, it's worth noting that what he did last year and what he's been doing since the bubble appear to be very different things. He's lost his spot on the PP to Fox. He's lost ice time to everyone from K'Andre Miller to Anthony Bitetto and Libor Hajek and Jack Johnson. That's not just coaches decision, because each and every one of them have done better than he has in those very spots. It's him. It's his play. It's his attitude. He's the common factor in everything happening "to" him.

 

If your argument is that the Rangers could get more for him without doing what they did? Yeah, you're right. They also could have gotten more for him if he wasn't such an unrelenting asshole that trading for him came with such risks.

 

BTW, is it possible the joke between Panarin and Shestyorkin was a dig at Georgiev?

 

Possible, sure. Likely, no.

 

As for those who say there was a constant rift between Georgiev and DeAngelo, and was a locker room cancer, this video would suggest otherwise.

 

 

Nobody said that there's a long rift between the two. The issue is that DeAngelo has a long history of being an unbearable asshole, and again, the Georgiev incident was the last straw for him in New York.