Bob Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 Daddy like. Is that a Chip reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 Artemi panarin is not a lead horse on a cup team. I’m not paying him to come here to be our highest paid guy so we can compete for a playoff spot. I’m interested in building a cup contender not getting back to where this team usually resides. Which is good but not good enough. Before you know it we’ll be half way to forever since our last cup. At least 1994 doesn’t sound as good as 1940 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 And yes he’s a great player but he plays the wrong position to say you can’t pass on him. There will be others there always are. Even if it means having to trade for it. You build right you will have the pieces to make those trades. The timing needs to right. Thinking about waiting years sucks but this isn’t PlayStation. The rangers aren’t going to be perennial contenders with a flip of the switch. If the expectations are they could be next years Vegas. You’re hoping not planning and certainly not giving a serious argument. That’s prayer shit much like the conversations that were had here last year that the rangers were contenders. Regardless this argument is silly. There’s a season to play before any decision should be made on panarin. Much will be learned. Maybe by next summer it makes sense but right now to me it’s way to premature to make that determination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 Gomez and Dan Boyle come to mind as others who wanted to play here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 And don’t forget Shattenkirk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torontonyr Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 Is Panarin that impressive? I don't know much about him but I've always filed him as a strong 3rd, 4th or 5th offensive option. Something in like with a Kadri or E.Kane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 He’s better than that but he’s probably a second tier star. He’s not one of the top 10 Players in the game. You don’t hand out 12m a year to guys like that unless he’s one of the final pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torontonyr Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 He’s better than that but he’s probably a second tier star. He’s not one of the top 10 Players in the game. You don’t hand out 12m a year to guys like that unless he’s one of the final pieces. Oh okay. For better or worse I saw him as an aging sub 30 goal scorer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 I think a big reason people have undervalued Panarin is because they most likely thought he was a product of playing on a team with Kane and Toews. He had his best season yet after getting traded to the Jackets. Point per game players do not come around UFA often. They dont even come around in trade often at Panarin's age. You should not view these kinds of players as "final pieces". These are guys you build a team around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 Since Panarin came into the league he's 7th in points. He'll also only have 4 years of NHL wear and tear on his body when he is starting next season at age 28, most NHL stars at age 28 will have played more than twice as many games as 28 year old Panarin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 I think a big reason people have undervalued Panarin is because they most likely thought he was a product of playing on a team with Kane and Toews. He had his best season yet after getting traded to the Jackets.Agree. Point per game players do not come around UFA often. They dont even come around in trade often at Panarin's age. You should not view these kinds of players as "final pieces". These are guys you build a team around. Don't agree. In this era, you build around you own core of picks and cost controlled players in their early 20's. Panarin is absolutely the guy you add to get you over the hump for 3-4 whacks at deep playoff runs. Like the Leafs did with Tavares. As we have already seen many times, you don't build a team through free agency anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYR2711 Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 Agree. Don't agree. In this era, you build around you own core of picks and cost controlled players in their early 20's. Panarin is absolutely the guy you add to get you over the hump for 3-4 whacks at deep playoff runs. Like the Leafs did with Tavares. As we have already seen many times, you don't build a team through free agency anymore. This. Every team that has won a cup the past 10 years has won by building there team through the draft. UFA's are brought in to complement the pieces they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 This. Every team that has won a cup the past 10 years has won by building there team through the draft. UFA's are brought in to complement the pieces they have. Usually by way of a top 2-3 pick who turns into a PPG player. We dont have that, and we likely wont have that anytime soon barring some incredibly lucky lottery results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 Agree. Don't agree. In this era, you build around you own core of picks and cost controlled players in their early 20's. Panarin is absolutely the guy you add to get you over the hump for 3-4 whacks at deep playoff runs. Like the Leafs did with Tavares. As we have already seen many times, you don't build a team through free agency anymore. I can be persuaded otherwise on this one because I see the logic, but the Leafs to me are not a good example. Not every team has the luxury of getting the #1 overall pick to get an Auston Matthews. Just because other teams have been able to win draft lotterys to get a very high pick to draft a bonafide star, does not mean every team can just choose to have that or make that their plan to just cross their fingers and hope to win it. I dont view that as a good plan to building a team...its putting everything into winning a lottery that you probably wont win. I would be all in on the idea if you could guarantee a very bad season would absolutely result in a #1 pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 Nothing. Except for the reports that he is eying the Rangers, coupled with the speculation that they won't trade for him. Deductive reasoning says that means he intends to test UFA and join the Rangers that way. It's not guaranteed. Nothing is. But there's a stronger probability of that happening now than there was last week. Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Didn't we hear Kovalchuk was almost a sure thing? I'm not reading into this all that much. If Seguin hits the market, alllllll the prices are going to go up. And, if Seguin hits the market, do you still go all in on Panarin? Or do you go for Seguin? Obviously the rumor isn't that Seguin wants to come here, but doesn't this feel more like a guy about to start a bidding war? Why would he WANT to come here when the team just tore it all down and has yet to play a game in year one of a rebuild? Don't get me wrong. If he wants to come here, I am fine with giving him 9-10 for 5-6. I just don't see why he'd want to and think this is the typical summer rumor where the big free agent to he is already considering the Rangers. There's nothing here to draw him in. Unless Buch and Namestnikov are pals with him. Or if he loves mediocrity... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 Is that a Chip reference Oh yeah? YOU'RE A CHIP REFERENCE!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 I can be persuaded otherwise on this one because I see the logic, but the Leafs to me are not a good example. Not every team has the luxury of getting the #1 overall pick to get an Auston Matthews. Just because other teams have been able to win draft lotterys to get a very high pick to draft a bonafide star, does not mean every team can just choose to have that or make that their plan to just cross their fingers and hope to win it. I dont view that as a good plan to building a team...its putting everything into winning a lottery that you probably wont win. I would be all in on the idea if you could guarantee a very bad season would absolutely result in a #1 pick.I mean there are plenty of other examples. Chicago and Hossa Pittsburgh and Kessel Caps and Oshie (not that he's P/G but logic applies) Tampa and McD (same logic, core was drafted) Preds and Subban Winnipeg just tried with Stastny What team in recent memory has signed a 28 year old forward to build their team around and said "this guy is our foundation for the next 8 years"? It just doesn't happen. Basically every serious playoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 I mean there are plenty of other examples. Chicago and Hossa Pittsburgh and Kessel Caps and Oshie (not that he's P/G but logic applies) Tampa and McD (same logic, core was drafted) Preds and Subban Winnipeg just tried with Stastny What team in recent memory has signed a 28 year old forward to build their team around and said "this guy is our foundation for the next 8 years"? It just doesn't happen. Basically every serious playoff I don't disagree that what you suggest is the best way to create a dynasty, but I don't see this as equivalent to the position the Rangers find themselves. We don't have Kane/Toews, Crosby/Malkin, Ovechkin/Backstrom, Stamkos/Hedman...and chances are we aren't going to get that top 3 pick to even have a chance to get a dynasty player like that through the draft unless we get incredibly lucky outside of that range. The only way to achieve that draft pick status is for the Rangers to trade all of their players that are going to keep us in the middle of the pack range, like Kreider and Zibanejad, and commit to being at the bottom of the standings for a few years. They haven't shown anything that suggests they plan to do that. Zuccarello and Hayes are still on the team, let alone those guys. A player like Seguin/Panarin in UFA is the next best road to getting one of those kinds of players to build around. Then you can move forward with filling around it and grabbing that Kessel/Hossa/etc. at the deadline or over the next couple of years to complement. It all comes down to timeline. I think the Rangers can be competitive as soon as next season, especially so if they get Seguin or Panarin for nothing more than cap space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 I don't disagree that what you suggest is the best way to create a dynasty, but I don't see this as equivalent to the position the Rangers find themselves. We don't have Kane/Toews, Crosby/Malkin, Ovechkin/Backstrom, Stamkos/Hedman...and chances are we aren't going to get that top 3 pick to even have a chance to get a dynasty player like that through the draft unless we get incredibly lucky outside of that range. The only way to achieve that draft pick status is for the Rangers to trade all of their players that are going to keep us in the middle of the pack range, like Kreider and Zibanejad, and commit to being at the bottom of the standings for a few years. They haven't shown anything that suggests they plan to do that. Zuccarello and Hayes are still on the team, let alone those guys. A player like Seguin/Panarin in UFA is the next best road to getting one of those kinds of players to build around. Then you can move forward with filling around it and grabbing that Kessel/Hossa/etc. at the deadline or over the next couple of years to complement. It all comes down to timeline. I think the Rangers can be competitive as soon as next season, especially so if they get Seguin or Panarin for nothing more than cap space.When you say "next" season I'm assuming you m an the one coming after 18-19. A lot would have to go right...basically every prospect panning out and Panarin or Seguin actually hitting UFA. I think they are 3-4 years away and even then Panarin is 32...Timing just doesn't seem right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 When you say "next" season I'm assuming you m an the one coming after 18-19. A lot would have to go right...basically every prospect panning out and Panarin or Seguin actually hitting UFA. I think they are 3-4 years away and even then Panarin is 32...Timing just doesn't seem right. Yes. There is so much that could go right or wrong. Your timeline may wind up being more accurate, which would really suck because as currently constructed it would be a waste of 3-4 years that could be spent trying to get top 3 picks rather than holding onto guys like Zucc/Hayes/Kreider/Zib and staying middle of the pack. The dreaded 9th-12th kind of finishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 Yes. There is so much that could go right or wrong. Your timeline may wind up being more accurate, which would really suck because as currently constructed it would be a waste of 3-4 years that could be spent trying to get top 3 picks rather than holding onto guys like Zucc/Hayes/Kreider/Zib and staying middle of the pack. The dreaded 9th-12th kind of finishes.This is true, but I honestly think you see guys like Hayes and Zucc moved this year. Probably Kreider as well, next. Z is just 25 and under contract. Worth keeping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 3 to 4 years is what realistic to expect. Yes being real bad for those years would be better than being mediocre due to the fact that drafting is everything these days. There is no comparison to me between Seguin and panarin. One is a center and that trumps everything. I can see going after Seguin. Panarin is really good but we are not ready to make that commitment unless chasing an 8 seed supercedes trying to build a cup contender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 This is true, but I honestly think you see guys like Hayes and Zucc moved this year. Probably Kreider as well, next. Z is just 25 and under contract. Worth keeping. Even if they get moved this year, I would think it would not be until the deadline. The damage on pick positioning may already be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 Pete are you concerned that we are on the same page here? I think it’s great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giacomin Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 To throw a curveball into the thinking that we have to build internally first. We are! Gorton is already building a core of young talent. Chytil, Howden, Lias, Buch, Kravtsov, Vesey, Ronning, Meskanen, Skjei, Hajek, Pionk, D'Angelo, Miller, Lundkvist, Rykov, Lindgren, Day, Shesty, Georgie, Huska Plus a likely high pick this draft and maybe other #1's for Hayes/Zuc, etc. Plus a high #2 and Tampa's #2. And all our picks in the following drafts. How many more draft picks do you guys need before you want to add a 27-28 year old scoring star? Add Zbad and Fast, maybe Kreider and Fox and then it is time to look for an established scoring top liner, to fill the big hole. This is probably the last year for a tank. That's fine with me. The goal was to load up on top talent by getting as many #1 and #2 picks. One more draft reload to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.