Price Set for Nash and Grabner

[Fatfrancesa]

I Think it also needs to be said that the prices the Rangers are asking for will probably not be met. These are the first shot across the bow and their demands seem fair. That is as long las there is somebody out there willing to pay it. In the cases of both Grabner and Nash, there is no wait for the draft. They may have to take the best offer they receive come deadline and if that's the case so be it. It is very possible that teams are reluctant to trade 1st round picks. It is imperative that no matter what the best deal is that the Rangers don't get stuck holding the bag hoping for more. It's very possible that Nash will be the barometer for the market, meaning that there might be stagnation in terms of trades until he is dealt. It would benefit the Rangers to get him moved as fast as possible for a fair deal. Don't try and over think it. If it's fair move him. Once he's moved it will force others to react and cause the market to move. The Rangers have multiple pieces here and trading Nash early for a fair return may drive the prices up especially for Grabner.

[Future]

Love it. Brannstrom or Suzuki. But they were the the 13th and 15th selections in this past draft. Unfortunately Brannstrom and a 1st is basically two firsts for Nash. I don't think McPhee does this. The return on Grabs will probably be less than Nash.

I think Brannstrom is probably more likely to be part of a Mac deal, than it would Nash.

 

Vegas' blueline still isn't good, so they've got to have more of a premium on Brannstrom than, say, Suzuki.

[Ozzy]

Franny, I think you've got it right on the money, man!

 

I was actually thinking of dealing Grabner first to drive the price up for Nash, but I get where you're going and I agree wholeheartedly! I already know from years past, you know the prospects pretty damn well. But yeah, I don't see this as a 1 or 2 year turnaround time. We're going to have to go through some crap before we see the rainbow. But how bad can that be....think about this a second:

 

The truth is, this team hasn't been any bit entertaining at all this season, so what are we going to miss? This team's been a disaster to me:

Games are snoozers

They come out flat pretty much every game

Hank has to eat 6 apples and shit a fruit salad for them to win a game.

They never shoot

Power play blows

This "High powered" fast break offense gets 16 shots on goal a game

They never score anymore

 

Team sucks....Bring on the kids...It really can't get any worse than this.

[Giacomin]

Perhaps some of those 1st rounders will be for 2019, though. The upside for the Rangers is then that the Stars' or Knights' or Bruins' 1st round pick in 2019 could be a lottery pick for all we know. I think it would be wise to spread out the picks a little bit, although the 2018 class is very attractive.

 

I hear ya, but this is where we want more 'ready' prospects. Why wait another draft just to get someone into the system. Especially given the strength of this draft. You gotta give to get. Pony up.

 

If someone wants back into the 1st bad enough, then they can trade other players, picks, etc.

[Slobberknocker]

It makes sense to me. They don't want a five year rebuild.

 

Getting such assets serves two purposes. 1) They're closer to contributing and 2) They're much more projectable.

 

i'd agree here. It is the Garden after all. they like the playoff dollars. sounds like while Gorton got the o.k. to go on a sell spree here, it still smells like a retool on the fly as much as you can rather than a tear down and 5 years of dark ages.

[Giacomin]

Fall from grace in terms of the draft. He went from being a top 10 pick to the 30th pretty much in the span of three weeks. Merkley has been on a steady descent since like November because of attitude concerns. He's probably the mosty dynamic defenseman not named Dahl?n or Boqvist.

 

I'd also take Liljegren over Dermott.

 

Oh yeah, his fall during the draft. I remember Phil freaking, wanting him picked 21. Then he kept dropping. So, I guess with him rated #2 prospect we are not getting him for Nash, let alone + a 1st.

 

Any chance for a Nash for:

Vilardi?

Suzuki? - Future is probably right, they'll need a Dman back to part with Brannstrom

Valamaki - Calgary is pretty loaded with Dmen

Thomas - a deal with St Louis would seem to have to include him or Kryou

Heiskanen is probably off the board for the Avs. What about Conor Timmons, first pick in 2nd, good righty dman. Their 1st, would be valuable too, wonder if they are bidding.

 

I was concerned about Lilegren's scouting report and he's not on the top 50. You know why? I assume you like him over Dermott due to upside. However, I think Dermott is going to surprise people with his upside. Only 11 games, so we'll see. But I think he is up for good, even when they get everyone back.

[Sod16]

Lower 1st round picks, to the extent that they work out, tend to do so well down the road. For example, Skjei was chosen in 2012 and became a regular in 2016.

[Drew a Penalty]

Thomas actually has some phenomenal possession stats in junior in addition to being a good producer. He's someone I might actually be interested in as a return for Nash or Grabner.

 

In regards to Liljegren over Dermott, it's just a matter of preferring Liljegren's overall game. Dermott is steady whereas Liljegren oozes potential. Liljegren only had two points at the WJC but he was playing incredibly well but was also playing alongside defensemen like Brannstrom and Dahlin. I think it's much harder to get a player with Liljegren's skillset than Dermoitt's.

[Giacomin]

I Think it also needs to be said that the prices the Rangers are asking for will probably not be met. These are the first shot across the bow and their demands seem fair. That is as long las there is somebody out there willing to pay it. In the cases of both Grabner and Nash, there is no wait for the draft. They may have to take the best offer they receive come deadline and if that's the case so be it. It is very possible that teams are reluctant to trade 1st round picks. It is imperative that no matter what the best deal is that the Rangers don't get stuck holding the bag hoping for more. It's very possible that Nash will be the barometer for the market, meaning that there might be stagnation in terms of trades until he is dealt. It would benefit the Rangers to get him moved as fast as possible for a fair deal. Don't try and over think it. If it's fair move him. Once he's moved it will force others to react and cause the market to move. The Rangers have multiple pieces here and trading Nash early for a fair return may drive the prices up especially for Grabner.

 

Ah, this is like game theory. You are right, we can get greedy and end up in a Talbot situation where the offer came off the board and another team went in a diff direction. We also do not want the player to get injured.

 

I think you are right, the ask (according to some reports) is too high. However, every team is going to act like we are taking their first born, early in the process. No one wants to trade their 1st in a good draft. Once some of the teams realize they will not only lose out on Nash, but he is going to their division rival, they'll get serious.

 

I think Nash goes to the team willing to give up a 1st + a prospect we like. I think more than 1 team will offer their first. Likely the prospect is the tiebreaker, unless the first is coming from a bubble team. On the flipside, Tampa's 1st is probably least attractive.

 

This is why these reports of "wanting a 1st, 2nd and top prospect" are all bullshit, I hope. More realistically, the Rangers are actually targeting some prospects and they are names not numbers. Some they like, some they love and some they'd pass.

[Giacomin]

Thomas actually has some phenomenal possession stats in junior in addition to being a good producer. He's someone I might actually be interested in as a return for Nash or Grabner.

 

In regards to Liljegren over Dermott, it's just a matter of preferring Liljegren's overall game. Dermott is steady whereas Liljegren oozes potential. Liljegren only had two points at the WJC but he was playing incredibly well but was also playing alongside defensemen like Brannstrom and Dahlin. I think it's much harder to get a player with Liljegren's skillset than Dermoitt's.

 

Thanks Drew.

 

Thomas and Kryou are tearing up the OHL. So is Suzuki, Raddysh, Katchouk, and Timmons. If anybody is watching any of these guys, or has something to add chime in.

 

Slobber/Dunny do you guys think these kids are too far away? Do we stay away from OHL guys (juniors) for older prospects? I assume the fear is the quality of competition?

[Dunny]

Yeah, but don't we want that pick too? Especially since we can't mention Sergachev or Point. So stingy.

 

Howden, Foote and a 1st for Nash + a 4th

 

Dunny, why is Katchouk rated lower than most of the others we've mentioned?

 

I don't know, I'm better at handicapping novices these days.

[Giacomin]

I don't know, I'm better at handicapping novices these days.

 

Yeah, well you are better than two of the prospect sites. The top 50 has the kid rated higher than the rest.

 

This is why I ask you about these OHLers. Which ones are in your backyard? Give us the dope.

[Fatfrancesa]

Ah, this is like game theory. You are right, we can get greedy and end up in a Talbot situation where the offer came off the board and another team went in a diff direction. We also do not want the player to get injured.

 

I think you are right, the ask (according to some reports) is too high. However, every team is going to act like we are taking their first born, early in the process. No one wants to trade their 1st in a good draft. Once some of the teams realize they will not only lose out on Nash, but he is going to their division rival, they'll get serious.

 

I think Nash goes to the team willing to give up a 1st + a prospect we like. I think more than 1 team will offer their first. Likely the prospect is the tiebreaker, unless the first is coming from a bubble team. On the flipside, Tampa's 1st is probably least attractive.

 

This is why these reports of "wanting a 1st, 2nd and top prospect" are all bullshit, I hope. More realistically, the Rangers are actually targeting some prospects and they are names not numbers. Some they like, some they love and some they'd pass.

 

That’s right. I’m just saying that if someone comes with a first and a prospect they like then they inform all interested parties they have a deal they like. Make a better offer or it’s done.

[Fatfrancesa]

If I had my choice I’d like to see a trade with the blues

I don’t think they have their first so it be something like this

Kyrou or Thomas

Plus

Shamltz or 2019 first

[Giacomin]

if someone comes with a first and a prospect they like then they inform all interested parties they have a deal they like. Make a better offer or it’s done.

 

Love it, that's how to do business. Don't be stupid, don't get ripped off, let everyone bid, ask for the guys you want, negotiate, take the best deal, give all serious bidders one quick last chance, pull trigger.

 

Robert Thomas is probably very highly coveted by St Louis, given he is a C and is also getting a reputation as a sick defensive player, along with his O skills. One scout says his upside is Bergeron. He was recently traded to Hamilton. I'd be tempted to do Nash for Thomas straight up. Maybe someone outbids them, but he's a serious prospect for a rental. If it is St Louis w/o a 2018 1st, Thomas or Kyrou need to be the centerpiece.

[Future]

Depending on where you look, Kostin could be rated higher than Thomas, he had a monster WJC. Regardless, there's a chance that they think those two are kind of redundant and would be willing to move one for Nash.

[Giacomin]

Depending on where you look, Kostin could be rated higher than Thomas, he had a monster WJC. Regardless, there's a chance that they think those two are kind of redundant and would be willing to move one for Nash.

 

Let's go with Thomas then. :cheers: They can keep Klim.

 

On a different note, regarding 1st rounders. Might be worth trading both Nash and Grabs west. Particularly the following.

 

Of these 6 teams --- Minny, Colo, Anaheim, SJ, LA, Calgary ---- 3 are going to miss the playoffs and their #1s are going to be a choice picks. If any of these clubs are bidding their 1st, they have to go to the front of the line.

[torontonyr]

I hear people saying even with them re-signing, it'd be a weak roster. But, what if that's the plan?

 

Trade to Contender -> Re-sign -> Roll dice on playoffs -> Don't make playoffs -> Trade to Contender -> Re-sign -> Roll dice on playoffs -> Don't make playoffs -> Trade to Contender ->etc

 

In a couple years we'd have fresh cupboards and a decent team, capitalizing on Hank's twilight. It's so stupid it might just work.

[ThirtyONE]

I hear people saying even with them re-signing, it'd be a weak roster. But, what if that's the plan?

 

Trade to Contender -> Re-sign -> Roll dice on playoffs -> Don't make playoffs -> Trade to Contender -> Re-sign -> Roll dice on playoffs -> Don't make playoffs -> Trade to Contender ->etc

 

In a couple years we'd have fresh cupboards and a decent team, capitalizing on Hank's twilight. It's so stupid it might just work.

 

Gave me a chuckle. Seriously though, I don't think Nash is going to want to keep sining 1 year deals until he retires just to be a pawn. I don't think any player wants that.

[Phil]

The Polak Plan! :rofl:

 

 

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[LindG1000]

Let's go with Thomas then. :cheers: They can keep Klim.

 

On a different note, regarding 1st rounders. Might be worth trading both Nash and Grabs west. Particularly the following.

 

Of these 6 teams --- Minny, Colo, Anaheim, SJ, LA, Calgary ---- 3 are going to miss the playoffs and their #1s are going to be a choice picks. If any of these clubs are bidding their 1st, they have to go to the front of the line.

 

IMO, those six teams are the Ryan McDonagh landing spots. If they're insistent on lotto protection, we're not dealing McD to them.

[Fatfrancesa]

Russ Cohen on Sirius this morning said that he doesn’t believe Nash will get a first back for 2018. Not sure where he got that from. He said that a protected 2019 first rounder would be more likely. Not sure I agree with him but expectations for the returns on Nash and grabner should probably be tempered

[josh]

Russ Cohen on Sirius this morning said that he doesn’t believe Nash will get a first back for 2018. Not sure where he got that from. He said that a protected 2019 first rounder would be more likely. Not sure I agree with him but expectations for the returns on Nash and grabner should probably be tempered

 

I really think we will see more Brassard-Zib trades instead of getting only picks.

[Dunny]

Who the fuck is Russ Cohen?

[paddynyc]

Russ Cohen on Sirius this morning said that he doesn’t believe Nash will get a first back for 2018. Not sure where he got that from. He said that a protected 2019 first rounder would be more likely. Not sure I agree with him but expectations for the returns on Nash and grabner should probably be tempered

 

I get this same feeling on this