Future Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Players like Tavares and Karlson rarely become available. When one does, you try to get him, irrespective of whether you are in contender mode, rebuild mode, or something else. I suspect Tavares does not want to deal with all the bruhaha that would surround his signing with the Rangers, but I don't know the man, so maybe he wouldn't really care if it worked for him otherwise. Agreed, though I don't think a bidding war is always for the best. I don't think JT cares about the "bruhaha," to be honest. Or, at least, he's already decided whether or not it would be worth it. It's not like he's going to have to weigh whether or not he wants to take that on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paddynyc Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Tavares is not going to be cheap are the Rangers ready to pay around $14-$16 million dollars a year for 8 years ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Tavares is not going to be cheap are the Rangers ready to pay around $14-$16 million dollars a year for 8 years ? Where does $14-16 come from? No way he gets more than McDavid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paddynyc Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Where does $14-16 come from? No way he gets more than McDavid. I was checking out the Forbes site and I saw that Towes makes $13.8 for this year, but does drop to $12. But it will still be costly to sign Tavares and and could he challenge McDavid's contract which is 8/$100 or does he come in around 8/$90 ? https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2017/12/05/the-nhls-highest-paid-players-2017-18/#4a043e862ac3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 I was checking out the Forbes site and I saw that Towes makes $13.8 for this year, but does drop to $12. But it will still be costly to sign Tavares and and could he challenge McDavid's contract which is 8/$100 or does he come in around 8/$90 ? https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2017/12/05/the-nhls-highest-paid-players-2017-18/#4a043e862ac3 It's really just the cap hit that matters. Toews hit is $10.5m, and McDavid is $12m. Tavares is having a monster year, and completely changing the trend he was on. Before the season, I thought that under $10m was reasonable if his numbers kept trending down, but if he hits 90 points, he could very well get more than McDavid. Plus, the cap is going to go up, giving teams a couple million extra to play with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 I know. I've been saying this all season. This team needs to look ahead. McD can give someone at least 2 playoffs and time to resign him. Now is the time we can get max value and add a dynamic top liner. His contract is going to be an anchor, preventing a ton of flexibility. We can turn McD into quality youth. Even if he doesn't have more than the typical injuries, a big long contract seems risky. He may ask for 7 years 8.5 million. That could be a hometown discount cause he might get 8 years at 9 mil in the open market. We can't do it. See the future Gorton. Have some balls and find us a great young forward in return. I don't see McD breaking 7.5 on his next deal. I don't want to give him THAT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Tavares is not going to be cheap are the Rangers ready to pay around $14-$16 million dollars a year for 8 years ? JT is not breaking 11- 12 on what ever deal he signs. If it's possible to sign him, he's a must have and kinda puts the team where it needs to be as far as being a contender. Obviously they then have to replace Nash in some capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giacomin Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 As for Tavares, it is obvious he is going to get at least 10 AAV. I expect his agent to be willing to settle at around the same as Kane and Toews, which is 10.5 for 8 years. That's a lot of cap space for us. I don't think I'd do it for someone who has already has 10 years in the league. I understand you guys who want to do it though. He wouldn't cost any assets and fills a big need on an already decent team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puck Head Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 JT is not breaking 11- 12 on what ever deal he signs. If it's possible to sign him, he's a must have and kinda puts the team where it needs to be as far as being a contender. Obviously they then have to replace Nash in some capacity. What? Replace Nash ? How so Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBoy89 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 All of those top centerman who won cups were surrounded by excellent rosters. Having a true 1C is only one part of the equation. " Pens roster last year was not excellent by any means.. IMO. Their D was suspect at best.. Having SUPERSTAR Forwards help make average looking players a lot better than they are. Jake Guentzel is a good player, but paired with Crosby he is legit. I also think being extremely shitty for a few years in a row is a big help, when the right players come around. But let's be honest, even McDavid doesn't look like he can save Edmonton. Crosby-Malkin, Kane-Toews.. Those duos don't come around enough through the draft. You have to be really shitty, and really lucky. We will never be either with the way we have been going, so getting someone like Tavares in FA is the only way to go in my eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Pens roster was terrible. Their top line has similar players to jesper Fast and Paul Carey. Their defense was a conglomerate of waiver wire pickups, busts and fill-ins. They're top heavy, like all successful NHL teams during this era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giacomin Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Pens roster was terrible. Their top line has similar players to jesper Fast and Paul Carey. Their defense was a conglomerate of waiver wire pickups, busts and fill-ins. They're top heavy, like all successful NHL teams during this era. This is a joke right? Their top line had players like Carey??? Where do you come up with this stuff? Crosby with 90 points Malkin over 70 Kessel over 70 Sheary 53 in 61G Hornqvist 44 in 70G Bonino 39 Guenzal 33 in 40G Rust 28 in 57G Add Hags, Cullen and Kunitz among others And that D after losing LeTang Shultz 51 in 72G Daley Dumoulin Maata After that you also had the best Goaltending TANDEM in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Tavares is probably going to get more than mcdavid. Not because he is better but because he has 31 teams bidding for his services. If he wants the biggest paycheck he’s going to break records with his contract because somebody will give it to him. If he’s looking at the best possible situation than he may take less. Mcdavid was still a rfa for years, he had little leverage. He still had another year at elc money and another bunch of years at rfa and arbitration. Completely different from Tavares. Mcd could get 7.5 or more. Doughty Karlsson and oel are all ufas with mcd they will set the market and mcd will come in just unde them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 This is a joke right? Their top line had players like Carey??? Where do you come up with this stuff? Crosby with 90 points Malkin over 70 Kessel over 70 Sheary 53 in 61G Hornqvist 44 in 70G Bonino 39 Guenzal 33 in 40G Rust 28 in 57G Add Hags, Cullen and Kunitz among others And that D after losing LeTang Shultz 51 in 72G Daley Dumoulin Maata After that you also had the best Goaltending TANDEM in the league. Take 2 players off that team. None of those guys come close to those numbers. Even then, other than Sheary, nothing is that impressive or surprising. Top players get more out of those around them.. Look at Robbie Schremp, Jordan Eberle, Matt Moulson, Okposo, Strome... anytime they played with Tavares, their numbers jumped, significantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giacomin Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Take 2 players off that team. None of those guys come close to those numbers. Even then, other than Sheary, nothing is that impressive or surprising. That is ridiculous. You said of the team that just won their 2nd straight Cup, "The Pens roster was terrible. Their top line has similar players to Paul Carey. Their defense was a conglomerate of waiver wire pickups, busts and fill-ins." Listed were 11 forwards, 5 defenders and 2 goalies with some numbers. None were waiver pickups or fill-ins. They are all better than Carey, the definition of a fringe NHL/AHLer. Take the two best offensive players (let alone centers who are also superstars) from any team and production is likely to drop. That is not an indictment of the team or the rest of the roster. Your assertion that there are not any impressive players beyond Crosby, Malkin and Sheary is grotesquely absurd. Josh that is not a credible analysis of their roster. It is so off base it is not worth writing a roster breakdown. There have been times coaches have struggled to find the right line mates for Crosby or Tavares. During the Cup runs, the guys playing with Crosby were not Carey or Schremp like. Or even under performers like Strome and others. This is one of the reasons they finally won. And won again. Did it ever occur to you that Tavares numbers are higher this year because he has guys like Bailey and Anders Lee and now Barzal and others on the PP, instead of Strome, Moulson or Okposo? Or that the Isles are playing a high powered offensive game (no D or goaltending) that also helps JT's point totals? Other factors matter, this is the NHL, having 2 stars doesn't automatically win Cups. And JT or McJesus won't automatically have a career years if they play with Paul Carey. Of course excellent centers lift their linemate's play. Good plays create more opportunities. This is a team game, played on the highest level. Yet, no line reaches its potential until each man is on their game and clicking with their teammates. Excellent supporting or complimentary players, skilled youth and speed, chemistry, special role players and balance are just some of the factors that teams who go on long playoff runs, possess. You need more than 2 stars to win a Cup, but that should be obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giacomin Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Tavares is probably going to get more than mcdavid. Not because he is better but because he has 31 teams bidding for his services. If he wants the biggest paycheck he’s going to break records with his contract because somebody will give it to him. If he’s looking at the best possible situation than he may take less. Mcdavid was still a rfa for years, he had little leverage. He still had another year at elc money and another bunch of years at rfa and arbitration. Completely different from Tavares. Mcd could get 7.5 or more. Doughty Karlsson and oel are all ufas with mcd they will set the market and mcd will come in just unde them I could be wrong, but I'm inclined to believe that the owners will use McDavid's contract as a high water mark, since he is universally accepted as the most valuable player in the league. Not saying owners will covertly collude, but they will use it as a benchmark (rightly so) to work (down) from. Until another player gets the hype of Grets, Mario, Lindros, Crosby, and McDavid I feel like that salary becomes the bar for a while. Besides who really has that Cap space besides a few shitty clubs who are less desirable to the best UFA. Toronto could make room for say 10.5 but how many will relegate 15mil of their cap (that is the max I think) for someone who isn't McDavid? Plus, when does the realization that Tavares (or other 28 y/o FA) in 6 years has a much greater chance to be a liability than McDavid? The age factor has to be a bit of a limiter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Pittsburgh is a top heavy team. Our depth was/is better, our defense is better, and goaltending is similar. Look at Shearys stats away from Crosby. Look at Guetzels. Look at Schultz's. Conor Sheary isnt going to help this team. A top-center that can make a guy like Sheary be a top-line player for us, is something we need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 I could be wrong, but I'm inclined to believe that the owners will use McDavid's contract as a high water mark, since he is universally accepted as the most valuable player in the league. It only takes 1 to break that mark, and if JT continues at a pace of more than a PPG, someone will. Lots of teams either have the cap space or can make it pretty easily, especially if the cap goes up 3-4 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 You make room for a guy like Tavares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giacomin Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Pittsburgh is a top heavy team. Pit was the same "TOP HEAVY team" in: 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 Yet did NOT make the Finals any of those 6 consecutive years. With the same 2 guys they did in 2016 and 2017. What was the difference Josh? Hockey is a team game. Your attempt to change the argument is misguided. Pitt did not have a terrible roster, not even close. They had no Carey's playing on their top 9 nor were they littered with a bunch of waiver pickups. What the Rangers need has nothing to do with your assessment of Pitt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 now they need to win every season for an opinion to be stated? come on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 That is ridiculous. You said of the team that just won their 2nd straight Cup, "The Pens roster was terrible. Their top line has similar players to Paul Carey. Their defense was a conglomerate of waiver wire pickups, busts and fill-ins." Listed were 11 forwards, 5 defenders and 2 goalies with some numbers. None were waiver pickups or fill-ins. They are all better than Carey, the definition of a fringe NHL/AHLer. Take the two best offensive players (let alone centers who are also superstars) from any team and production is likely to drop. That is not an indictment of the team or the rest of the roster. Your assertion that there are not any impressive players beyond Crosby, Malkin and Sheary is grotesquely absurd. Josh that is not a credible analysis of their roster. It is so off base it is not worth writing a roster breakdown. Sheary last year, .87 ppg. This year .37. Guentzel last year, .83 ppg. This year .48. There's really no arguing that Crosby and Malkin have a major positive impact on everyone they play with. The Pens also shuffle any number of guys through their top 2 lines until they catch lightning in a bottle. Hags right after the trade .73 ppg. Since .36 and .27. Hornqvist numbers are best in Pitt. Same with Kunitz. James Neal, 4 years in Pitt .92 ppg everywhere else .63. Did it ever occur to you that Tavares numbers are higher this year because he has guys like Bailey and Anders Lee and now Barzal and others on the PP, instead of Strome, Moulson or Okposo? Or that the Isles are playing a high powered offensive game (no D or goaltending) that also helps JT's point totals? Other factors matter, this is the NHL, having 2 stars doesn't automatically win Cups. And JT or McJesus won't automatically have a career years if they play with Paul Carey. I don't even know where to go with this. This is Bailey's 10th year in the league. Last year was his best year at .68 ppg. That was also the first time he ever topped .60. Now with him all of a sudden at 1.15, its him boosting Tavares' numbers? Lee is a 30 goal scorer because of Tavares. Travares made Moulson a 30 goal scorer. Moulson has score 52 goals in in 317 games since leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Pit was the same "TOP HEAVY team" in: 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 Yet did NOT make the Finals any of those 6 consecutive years. With the same 2 guys they did in 2016 and 2017. What was the difference Josh? Hockey is a team game. Your attempt to change the argument is misguided. Pitt did not have a terrible roster, not even close. They had no Carey's playing on their top 9 nor were they littered with a bunch of waiver pickups. What the Rangers need has nothing to do with your assessment of Pitt. I think you're kind of missing the point. Pitt's roster isn't full of Paul Careys, but they really only have three top-six talents. Two of them make everyone else around them better. That roster, without 87 and 71, is trash. But, when guys like Sheary, Hornquist and Guentzel can be complimentary, they look a lot better than they really are. It's the same thing with Lee, Moulson, Okposo, Bailey, and really everyone else that has ever played with JT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Pit was the same "TOP HEAVY team" in: 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 Yet did NOT make the Finals any of those 6 consecutive years. With the same 2 guys they did in 2016 and 2017. What was the difference Josh? Hockey is a team game. Your attempt to change the argument is misguided. Pitt did not have a terrible roster, not even close. They had no Carey's playing on their top 9 nor were they littered with a bunch of waiver pickups. What the Rangers need has nothing to do with your assessment of Pitt. Fleury couldn't stop a beach ball... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giacomin Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 It only takes 1 to break that mark, and if JT continues at a pace of more than a PPG, someone will. Lots of teams either have the cap space or can make it pretty easily, especially if the cap goes up 3-4 million. There is a difference between being able to make the space versus whether a GM thinks it is in their competitive best interest of the roster (longterm) to relegate 15 mil for him. I don't think exceeding McDavid's AAV this quick is what any owner wants to do. Maybe I'm too much of a skeptic/cynic when it comes to the owner's wanting to manage salary escalation. Guess, I'm imagining more discord among the owners and maybe even GMs about blowing out salary structures. Many teams are trying to maintain a structure and money what many of them care about most. Plus, not every team wants to be cap maxed every year and the ones that do, are already. Well, we will find out soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.