Does Islanders News Open Door on Tavares?

[Sod16]

Tavares is having a monster year, and completely changing the trend he was on.

 

Correct. The previous two season were not what the four before that were. I still think you take a serious run at him, but there's a good chance that the winner ends up paying a $7.5 million player $12 million a year.

[Fatfrancesa]

So if this is true why shouldn’t every team just hand the keys to Tavares? He’s certainly a top center. Say Toronto could land him, why would they need to worry about resigning anyone other than Matthews? Having those two would be equal to what Pittsburgh has. If they just fill in the roster with afterthoughts that should be good enough.

[Giacomin]

Fleury couldn't stop a beach ball...

 

Ha ha, yeah Fleury sux. He came back from injury during the 2015/16 season and proceeded to help them go on a 3 month tear during which they had the best record in the league and he was lights out every night. BTW, Vegas and their fans think he can't stop a beach ball either.

[josh]

So if this is true why shouldn’t every team just hand the keys to Tavares? He’s certainly a top center. Say Toronto could land him, why would they need to worry about resigning anyone other than Matthews? Having those two would be equal to what Pittsburgh has. If they just fill in the roster with afterthoughts that should be good enough.

 

You do realize that Toronto will most certainly be bidding for Tavares services. In fact, they are leading the rumor wagon, as far as where he will sign.

[Future]

There is a difference between being able to make the space versus whether a GM thinks it is in their competitive best interest of the roster (longterm) to relegate 15 mil for him. I don't think exceeding McDavid's AAV this quick is what any owner wants to do. Maybe I'm too much of a skeptic/cynic when it comes to the owner's wanting to manage salary escalation.

 

Guess, I'm imagining more discord among the owners and maybe even GMs about blowing out salary structures. Many teams are trying to maintain a structure and money what many of them care about most. Plus, not every team wants to be cap maxed every year and the ones that do, are already. Well, we will find out soon enough.

Signing Tavares is about the short-term and winning a cup. Any GM considering signing him doesn't really care about the cap ramifications of his contract in 2024. A team like Toronto could pretty easily justify trading Kadri and, one of Marner/Nylander to make room for JT an the massive return those guys would bring. Matthews-JT in the middle basically gives you the same structure as the Pens.

 

It doesn't really matter if there's discord or not - 30 owners might be fine with keeping salaries down, but 1 who thinks JT is the piece that gets them the Cup trumps all of that.

[Future]

Ha ha, yeah Fleury sux. He came back from injury during the 2015/16 season and proceeded to help them go on a 3 month tear during which they had the best record in the league and he was lights out every night. BTW, Vegas and their fans think he can't stop a beach ball either.

Fleury was bad in the playoffs 4 years straight. He had sv% of .891, .899, .833, and .883 from 10-13. During the first Cup run he only posted a .908.

[Long live the King]

Ha ha, yeah Fleury sux. He came back from injury during the 2015/16 season and proceeded to help them go on a 3 month tear during which they had the best record in the league and he was lights out every night. BTW, Vegas and their fans think he can't stop a beach ball either.

 

Your sarcasm is misplaced. Here's Fleury during the playoffs in the years you mention...

 

[table=width: 500, align: center]

[tr]

[td]Year[/td]

[td]Wins[/td]

[td]Losses[/td]

[td]SV%[/td]

[td]GAA[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]2010[/td]

[td]7[/td]

[td]6[/td]

[td].891[/td]

[td]2.78[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]2011[/td]

[td]3[/td]

[td]4[/td]

[td].899[/td]

[td]2.52[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]2012[/td]

[td]2[/td]

[td]4[/td]

[td].831[/td]

[td]4.63[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]2013[/td]

[td]2[/td]

[td]2[/td]

[td].883[/td]

[td]2.52[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]2014[/td]

[td]7[/td]

[td]6[/td]

[td].915[/td]

[td]2.40[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]2015[/td]

[td]1[/td]

[td]4[/td]

[td].927[/td]

[td]2.12[/td]

[/tr]

[/table]

 

I can point to 1, maybe 2, of those years and say it wasn't Fleury's fault. The rest are the reason he is in Vegas and Matt Murray is in Pitt.

[Giacomin]

I think you're kind of missing the point. Pitt's roster isn't full of Paul Careys, but they really only have three top-six talents. Two of them make everyone else around them better. That roster, without 87 and 71, is trash. But, when guys like Sheary, Hornquist and Guentzel can be complimentary, they look a lot better than they really are.

 

It's the same thing with Lee, Moulson, Okposo, Bailey, and really everyone else that has ever played with JT.

 

Not missing the point, I was responding to Josh's assertions. He said their Cup roster is full of Careys, etc.

 

Take the 2 best skaters off any team and their roster as a whole looks like trash in comparison. Also you folks are under rating the youth, speed and role players they brought in.

 

Adding Kessel, Daley, Hags, Murray and then injecting Sheary, Guentzal and Rust (all the same year) was the significant difference between the last 2 Cup years and the 6 years prior.

 

Bailey, Lee and Barzal are far better than Strome, Okposo and Moulson. It is not the same thing for everyone who has played with JT, even if his linemates all have better numbers with him. There is a reason JT is having a career year.

[Giacomin]

Your sarcasm is misplaced. Here's Fleury during the playoffs in the years you mention...

 

[table=width: 500, align: center]

[tr]

[td]Year[/td]

[td]Wins[/td]

[td]Losses[/td]

[td]SV%[/td]

[td]GAA[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]2010[/td]

[td]7[/td]

[td]6[/td]

[td].891[/td]

[td]2.78[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]2011[/td]

[td]3[/td]

[td]4[/td]

[td].899[/td]

[td]2.52[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]2012[/td]

[td]2[/td]

[td]4[/td]

[td].831[/td]

[td]4.63[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]2013[/td]

[td]2[/td]

[td]2[/td]

[td].883[/td]

[td]2.52[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]2014[/td]

[td]7[/td]

[td]6[/td]

[td].915[/td]

[td]2.40[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]2015[/td]

[td]1[/td]

[td]4[/td]

[td].927[/td]

[td]2.12[/td]

[/tr]

[/table]

 

I can point to 1, maybe 2, of those years and say it wasn't Fleury's fault. The rest are the reason he is in Vegas and Matt Murray is in Pitt.

 

Ok, I want to back pedal here. You weren't saying Fleury sucks overall, just that he hurt them in multiple playoffs. There is truth to that. Excuse my sarcasm there.

[Giacomin]

You do realize that Toronto will most certainly be bidding for Tavares services. In fact, they are leading the rumor wagon, as far as where he will sign.

 

You do realize that you guys are basically saying JT is not only going to exceed McJesus's salary and AAV, but essentially he is going to become the first max salary in the league ever? Done deal.

 

And Josh, you think that a talented Leaf team is going to blow their whole salary structure (with all the big contract negotiations coming up) and the league's structure by offering JT 15 mil AAV? You think Lou and Shanny are going to not only want to spend wildly on JT, but explain how it all fits to the whole board of Rogers?

 

Everyone needs to take a breath here. You guys are hyperventilating, but the owners probably will not. A Toews like salary will be in the offering, but I think we are getting ahead of ourselves if you think he is going to exceed Toew's salary by ~45% and McDavid's by ~30%.

[josh]

Not missing the point, I was responding to Josh's assertions. He said their Cup roster is full of Careys, etc.

 

Take the 2 best skaters off any team and their roster as a whole looks like trash in comparison. Also you folks are under rating the youth, speed and role players they brought in.

 

Adding Kessel, Daley, Hags, Murray and then injecting Sheary, Guentzal and Rust (all the same year) was the significant difference between the last 2 Cup years and the 6 years prior.

 

Bailey, Lee and Barzal are far better than Strome, Okposo and Moulson. It is not the same thing for everyone who has played with JT, even if his linemates all have better numbers with him. There is a reason JT is having a career year.

 

We have similar players in Kreider, Zuccarello, Nash, Hayes, Miller, Grabner, Fast, Carey, Shattenkirk, Staal, Holden, Lundqvist, etc.

 

And as you imply, if every team is shitty removing their top two players... well, we better focus on getting 2 top players, eh?

[josh]

You do realize that you guys are basically saying JT is not only going to exceed McJesus's salary and AAV, but essentially he is going to become the first max salary in the league ever? Done deal.

I dont care what he gets paid, honestly. He's one of a few players you flirt with a max contract.

 

Besides, I cant think of more than 2 players in which I didnt say they were overpaid.

 

And Josh, you think that a talented Leaf team is going to blow their whole salary structure (with all the big contract negotiations coming up) and the league's structure by offering JT 15 mil AAV? You think Lou and Shanny are going to not only want to spend wildly on JT, but explain to the whole board of Rogers?

Without question.

I dont think they'll care about "explaining" some new banners hanging from the rafters.

 

Everyone needs to take a breath here. You guys are hyperventilating, just can't see the owners (even 1) doing the same for Tavares. A Toews like salary will be in the offering, but I think we are getting ahead of ourselves if you think he is going to exceed Toew's salary by ~45% and McDavid's by ~30%.

I doubt the costs are that high, but, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

 

Are you caught up in what JT could do for the team, the cap hit, the surrounding players, the current situation of the team... ?

[Giacomin]

We have similar players in Kreider, Zuccarello, Nash, Hayes, Miller, Grabner, Fast, Carey, Shattenkirk, Staal, Holden, Lundqvist, etc.

 

And as you imply, if every team is shitty removing their top two players... well, we better focus on getting 2 top players, eh?

 

Josh, I've been saying the Ranger's need a top line fast 200' point producing center and a #1RHD all year. Actually longer. That is because for the last few years we have had all the other ingredients. We agree on this. This is why I've thought the Rangers Cup contenders since 2014. Many other teams have not had that quality, which is why they are pretenders. Pitt was not a pretender. They've had a strong, fast, balanced roster the last two years. The results show it.

[Giacomin]

 

Are you caught up in what JT could do for the team, the cap hit, the surrounding players, the current situation of the team... ?

 

I just posted some background and color of the situation in Toronto... in the Gorton thread where I originally suggested trading McD to Toronto. Rather than repeating it here, go check it out.

 

I am also familiar with their team, players, prospects and mgmt. Moreso than many other teams. I also get to watch the Isles, Devils and Sabres too often, as well. I'm a hockey junkie and I don't see Shanny and Lou dismissing the upcoming contracts they need to make big decisions on, for one contract. As good as JT is. Those discussions and decisions will likely come before they are hanging banners from their rafters. They will have to justify their gameplan and any major deviations from that longterm plan they already have.

[The Dude]

We have similar players in Kreider, Zuccarello, Nash, Hayes, Miller, Grabner, Fast, Carey, Shattenkirk, Staal, Holden, Lundqvist, etc.

 

And as you imply, if every team is shitty removing their top two players... well, we better focus on getting 2 top players, eh?

 

This. This exactly. I'd say the Rangers roster is better save for their top 3 forwards in Crosby, Malkin and Kessel. Even this current shit show defense is better. If you put a guy like Kreider with a talent like Crosby, he goes from a 25 goal guy to a 40 goal guy. Kreider is waaay better than Sheary.. Zucc is waaay better than Hagelin. There's a pretty decent supporting cast here that is dying for an elite top line talent. If there's a better quicker way to get a top tier talent here on the Rangers, and have a decent supporting cast for a few years, I'd like to hear the plan.

 

The Rangers really must keep tabs on the situation and consider making a move for Tavares.

[BrooklynBoy89]

Not missing the point, I was responding to Josh's assertions. He said their Cup roster is full of Careys, etc.

 

Take the 2 best skaters off any team and their roster as a whole looks like trash in comparison. Also you folks are under rating the youth, speed and role players they brought in.

 

Adding Kessel, Daley, Hags, Murray and then injecting Sheary, Guentzal and Rust (all the same year) was the significant difference between the last 2 Cup years and the 6 years prior.

 

Bailey, Lee and Barzal are far better than Strome, Okposo and Moulson. It is not the same thing for everyone who has played with JT, even if his linemates all have better numbers with him. There is a reason JT is having a career year.

 

 

The entire point in all of this, is simply, if the Pens DO NOT have 87 and 71, that roster DOES NOT come close to winning a Cup. That was the point of bringing in Tavares. We have the same type of talent that the Pens have, minus an 87 or 71, and that only happened for them because they sucked so much ass for so long, and got lucky in the draft years that they sucked. The Pens have 0 Cups in the last 10 years if they don't have 87 or 71, hell, they probably aren't even in Pitt anymore. An entire franchise can be changed by shit season and lucky draft talent.. Or in this case, bringing in a super stud like Tavares in FA. We need him. Plain and simple.

[lefty9]

But we need one more,if Tavares is to be our Crosby where is our Malkin Coming from

[SaveByRichter35]

But we need one more,if Tavares is to be our Crosby where is our Malkin Coming from

 

Unfortunately he is in our net.

[Rangers4Life]

But we need one more,if Tavares is to be our Crosby where is our Malkin Coming from

 

Should?ve been Nash

[josh]

But we need one more,if Tavares is to be our Crosby where is our Malkin Coming from

 

trade for:

Nylander

Marner

Burakovsky

Puljujarvi

 

 

draft:

Zadina

Svechnikov

Tkachuk

 

develop:

buchnevich

Chytil

Andersson

[phillyb]

According to The Athletic and LeBrun, the Isles aren't trading Tavares.

 

 

I don't subscribe to The Athletic, but here's the article for those that may - https://theathletic.com/228903/2018/02/01/lebrun-notebook-islanders-will-not-trade-john-tavares-gm-garth-snow-says/

[Ozzy]

I really don't think he's going anywhere. The more I keep hearing about him leaving, the more I think he's staying. Doug Weight loves this guy! They should bust the piggy bank for him! They have the room I believe.

 

One of you guys who has the Salary cap site could probably see if the Isles can squeeze him in. I bet they can, since they really don't have a ton of heavy hitters.

[Future]

I really don't think he's going anywhere. The more I keep hearing about him leaving, the more I think he's staying. Doug Weight loves this guy! They should bust the piggy bank for him! They have the room I believe.

 

One of you guys who has the Salary cap site could probably see if the Isles can squeeze him in. I bet they can, since they really don't have a ton of heavy hitters.

They could, but the roster around him will be worse than it is now. The Clutterbuck, Cizikas, and Ladd contracts are absolutely awful. $12.35m for those guys is an albatross. Josh Bailey is also a UFA, and Anders Lee and Eberle are going to be UFAs after next year. de Haan and Hickey are also up. That roster will just be absolutely brutal if they keep JT.

 

I can't think of one good reason why the Isles wouldn't trade him at the deadline. Not one. And I can think of even fewer why JT would want to stay.

[Ozzy]

They could, but the roster around him will be worse than it is now. The Clutterbuck, Cizikas, and Ladd contracts are absolutely awful. $12.35m for those guys is an albatross. Josh Bailey is also a UFA, and Anders Lee and Eberle are going to be UFAs after next year. de Haan and Hickey are also up. That roster will just be absolutely brutal if they keep JT.

 

I can't think of one good reason why the Isles wouldn't trade him at the deadline. Not one. And I can think of even fewer why JT would want to stay.

 

Only thing I can think of is $$$$, Future.

 

If they give him the Towes type deal he's looking for, I think he'd entertain staying. If they unload him, I don't think they can draw flies to a game next season....they barely do it now.

[Future]

Only thing I can think of is $$$$, Future.

 

If they give him the Towes type deal he's looking for, I think he'd entertain staying. If they unload him, I don't think they can draw flies to a game next season....they barely do it now.

Well he's going to get a lot more than Toews, and he can get the same offer from a lot of teams. Any of the no income tax states could crush a NYI offer, in terms of money.

 

Florida only has $64m committed to next year and has nobody of consequence up for a new contract. Vegas could make it rain. Dallas has only $57m committed to next year even WITH Spezza and Hanzal, but do need to pick up a couple of their ELCs. I actually think Dallas makes the most sense, because JT, Benn, Seguin, Radulov would be the best top-6 in the NHL. Spezza comes off the book after next year, or you can buy him out and save $5m to address depth immediately, if you need to.

 

Attendance can't go down much more, and by the time the new arena is ready, JT will be, what, 31? They aren't going to draw until then anyways. The team could, in theory, be competitive by then (though I doubt it), but why would he want to wait another 3 years.