Ozzy Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Even at their full strength calling this year's Rangers team a very good team is a bit of a stretch. I'm one of the last to blame a coach for team issues. I just feel that we, as fans, never really can get a good idea on if they are doing a good job or not. We don't see anywhere near what's actually happening in practice, in the locker room, or in his office. The blame I see if for line-up decisions or in game match-ups among others. But do we really have the insight to be overly critical of this? I know this is a results based business so he may well end up being fired but just screaming for him to be fired based on what we know isn't enough imho. The injuries may be a decent excuse for him at this point, but make no mistake; If you look at both teams he's been at the helm of most recently, both teams were soft. Vancouver was a very soft team and lost in the finals. This team he inherited from Torts (who I'm not a big advocate of either) and turned them into a bunch of pansies as well....lost in the finals as well. This team is barely watchable at this point, and their games are Pond hockey 101. He calls it speed, I call it haphazard, undisciplined hockey, and it's not always the Players' fault. The guy can't match lines for a hill of beans, and these players seemingly are NEVER prepared for game starts. That's a coaching problem. A new face will do wonders here....along with getting rid of a few older ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Not winning the cup with the Vancouver team is a pretty strong indictment of av. He came here to a very strong team that just missed going to the finals. He has two very good teams his last two stops. He left Vancouver in flames and he’ll probably be doing the same here That team didn't "just miss" going to the finals. It was 2 years before AV arrived when they went to the ECF, where they got smoked. The next year, they got smoked in the second round. AV deserves a ton of credit for pushing them as far as he did. It's not like he inherited a Cup winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Glass Eric Staal, Yandle, smith and skied, Buchnevich are just examples of misuse What we can see is the massive amount of grade A scoring chances this rangers give up. We can see the gap the size of the Grand Canyon between forwards and defenseman. We can see the 10-20 minutes a night this team actually resembles a nhl hockey club. This coach was brought here to win a cup. He inherited a well structured defensively sound team that was already in a conference final. He has slowly but surely transformed this team which had an absolute identity to one which has none. Every year the structure and defense is worse despite the cash being thrown at the defense. It is well past time, like two years, for this guy to go and ruin some other franchise. Let him go there and not win Again, I'm not sure if we, as fans, are truly capable of understanding what goes into roster decisions. Buch is a young guy that is still trying to figure out what it takes to be a pro. I have no issue with his use from a coaching perspective. As a fan, sure, I'd like to see him more but if I was a coach I probably wouldn't trust him enough yet either. He's getting better though. Eric Staal was a disaster the season we got him. Prior to us in Carolina he was a shell of himself and we unfortunately saw the same shell. He rededicated himself and returned to his former prowess. Yandle and Smith are flawed veterans. Not sure how much can be put on the coach. Using this, can we give AV all the credit for Grabner's rejuvenation with the Rangers? AV may very well be fired because the results aren't where the Rangers ownership expects. All the other things that lead to the results I just feel we are mostly in the dark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albatrosss Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Glass Eric Staal, Yandle, smith and skied, Buchnevich are just examples of misuse What we can see is the massive amount of grade A scoring chances this rangers give up. We can see the gap the size of the Grand Canyon between forwards and defenseman. We can see the 10-20 minutes a night this team actually resembles a nhl hockey club. This coach was brought here to win a cup. He inherited a well structured defensively sound team that was already in a conference final. He has slowly but surely transformed this team which had an absolute identity to one which has none. Every year the structure and defense is worse despite the cash being thrown at the defense. It is well past time, like two years, for this guy to go and ruin some other franchise. Let him go there and not win Can you explain how all above mentioned are being misused? especially Buch, who's getting top PP minutes and is a second leading point getter on the team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giacomin Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Again, I'm not sure if we, as fans, are truly capable of understanding what goes into roster decisions. Buch is a young guy that is still trying to figure out what it takes to be a pro. I have no issue with his use from a coaching perspective. As a fan, sure, I'd like to see him more but if I was a coach I probably wouldn't trust him enough yet either. He's getting better though. Eric Staal was a disaster the season we got him. Prior to us in Carolina he was a shell of himself and we unfortunately saw the same shell. He rededicated himself and returned to his former prowess. Yandle and Smith are flawed veterans. Not sure how much can be put on the coach. Using this, can we give AV all the credit for Grabner's rejuvenation with the Rangers? AV may very well be fired because the results aren't where the Rangers ownership expects. All the other things that lead to the results I just feel we are mostly in the dark. Kevin, the point you are making is very true. I don't think we have nearly as much info as coach(es) does. They have the best read on injuries, what is going on by reviewing film, etc. That is always going to be the case. Therefore what are our opinions good for? Well, they are good for being able to see the forest through the trees. We are not clouded with interpersonal shit, who impressed in drills, who worked hard in practice, internal politics, discipline, messages, etc. We often just see what the guy and team does when he is on the ice. We tend to look at results, whether it is puck battles, turnovers, opportunities, to things like goals and assists. We also wonder why when teams cheat to shut down our long passing game that we don't adjust. Personnel-wise that means encouraging Yandle and McD (Or Shatty and Smith and Skjei) to carry the puck more and diversify the attack. Or give Yandle more PP time. It took too long for AV to do this with Yandle. This is the NHL, you can't just adjust the lineup, but also methods and gameplay. Especially when you have the talent to do so. Fans do also wonder about deployment. When Buch is averaging thenbest PPM why is he relegated to 4th line, shitty linemates or worse. Why do hot players like Lindberg and Buch sit in the press box for the playoffs when others are struggling. How did a shitty Canadian's coach, outcoach us, even with him absurdly overcoaching himself. Our line matchups were bad in too many games, including games we had last change. We got outcoached by the Sens too. I could go on, but for me these flaws become more apparent during the playoffs the last few years. AV's best job coaching here was his first year. His effectiveness appears in decline. We underacheived last year when our healthy roster should have eliminated Ottawa. The year prior was not good. If we miss the playoffs this year, it is time for a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Can you explain how all above mentioned are being misused? especially Buch, who's getting top PP minutes and is a second leading point getter on the team 19th in average EV TOI/G among all skaters. Fewer than Peter Holland. 12th in average EV TOI/G among all forwards. Fewer than David Desharnais, Jimmy Vesey, and Jesper Fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 That pretty much sums up Buchnevich misuse. Yandle is the worst one. We traded our top prospect a roster defenseman and a first and a second for a premier power play qb. As soon as av’s gets him he uses him on the second unit and plays him in the third pair. Every advanced stat has Yandle as great possession guy yet he sees the fourth or fifth most ice time in terms of defenseman. Look who was getting that time and tell me he was uses properly. Yandle in the second P.P is a joke. Staal just didn’t just find the fountain of youth. From day 1 as a ranger av didn’t seem to know what do with him. So he put him on the wing which is a bigger joke than Yandle. Staal has only been one of the best two centers for a decade but here under av not so. Brenden Smith comes here and plays the best hockey of his career. He’s paired with skeij and by all accounts are the rangers best pair. But somehow after blowing lead after lead with the likes of Staal and Holden Av still parks the smith skeij pair on the bench for the final 10 minutes of playoff game after playoff game. That pair receives the least amount of ice time in favor of the likes of Girardi Staal and Holden. Both Girardi and Staal are linked to buyouts in the summer. So the gm obviously isn’t as impressed with their play. When Avery is asked to explain the usage by miffed reporters he responds by saying he lost them on the bench. Are you Fucking kidding me? Go back to the Tampa ecf. Av was ass raped in that series by cooper. The rangers could still be playing that game 7 as we speak and still not get a good chance on goal. How a ranger fan needs to ask how av has misused these players is a question in and of itself. If I’m not mistaken buch sat for glass last postseason. Hayes for glass the year prior. That’s not development that is beyond stupid. Can’t wait for tomorrow. Hope hank has slept at least 60 hours the three days leading up to it because he’s going to be busy On a side note I’m no fan of Shattenkirk. However the mcd Shattenkirk pair that was such a lock upon his signing lasted for a whole period this season. In favor of who? Nick fucking Holden. Does Gorton and Av even talk or do both just operate in their own bubble. Because time and time again the coach and the gm are not on the same page, they aren’t even reading the same book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 19th in average EV TOI/G among all skaters. Fewer than Peter Holland. 12th in average EV TOI/G among all forwards. Fewer than David Desharnais, Jimmy Vesey, and Jesper Fast. Buch also has some of the worst stats, every other game. His corsi, fendick, and schumanmauer scores are fucking terrible if he doesnt have a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 That pretty much sums up Buchnevich misuse. Yandle is the worst one. We traded our top prospect a roster defenseman and a first and a second for a premier power play qb. As soon as av’s gets him he uses him on the second unit and plays him in the third pair. Every advanced stat has Yandle as great possession guy yet he sees the fourth or fifth most ice time in terms of defenseman. Look who was getting that time and tell me he was uses properly. Yandle in the second P.P is a joke. Staal just didn’t just find the fountain of youth. From day 1 as a ranger av didn’t seem to know what do with him. So he put him on the wing which is a bigger joke than Yandle. Staal has only been one of the best two centers for a decade but here under av not so. Brenden Smith comes here and plays the best hockey of his career. He’s paired with skeij and by all accounts are the rangers best pair. But somehow after blowing lead after lead with the likes of Staal and Holden Av still parks the smith skeij pair on the bench for the final 10 minutes of playoff game after playoff game. That pair receives the least amount of ice time in favor of the likes of Girardi Staal and Holden. Both Girardi and Staal are linked to buyouts in the summer. So the gm obviously isn’t as impressed with their play. When Avery is asked to explain the usage by miffed reporters he responds by saying he lost them on the bench. Are you Fucking kidding me? Go back to the Tampa ecf. Av was ass raped in that series by cooper. The rangers could still be playing that game 7 as we speak and still not get a good chance on goal. How a ranger fan needs to ask how av has misused these players is a question in and of itself. If I’m not mistaken buch sat for glass last postseason. Hayes for glass the year prior. That’s not development that is beyond stupid. Can’t wait for tomorrow. Hope hank has slept at least 60 hours the three days leading up to it because he’s going to be busy On a side note I’m no fan of Shattenkirk. However the mcd Shattenkirk pair that was such a lock upon his signing lasted for a whole period this season. In favor of who? Nick fucking Holden. Does Gorton and Av even talk or do both just operate in their own bubble. Because time and time again the coach and the gm are not on the same page, they aren’t even reading the same book Yandle was the same Yandle when he came here. He didnt get the opportunities he once had (on a shitty, shitty Yotes team), and his numbers were coming down, once OEL took that time. Since leaving, Yandle has continued to put up numbers similar to his time in NY. Smith, no, smith played his BEST hockey after the trade. The Smith you are getting now is your typical Smith. Ask Wings fans. They were delighted with the return we granted them. Eric Staal didnt earn his playing time, when here. HE was terrible, and it had little to do with how the coach used him. Again, he was brought to a stacked team and under-performed in every capacity. Honestly, these were probably the worst player acquisitions we have seen in years. AV isnt some Minnesota Miracle man, and was never expected to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slobberknocker Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 i can see the fire AV point you are making. wonder what Gorton thinks. AV was a Sather hire, was he not. Does Ruff have a good track record developing kids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 i can see the fire AV point you are making. wonder what Gorton thinks. AV was a Sather hire, was he not. Does Ruff have a good track record developing kids? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 That team didn't "just miss" going to the finals. It was 2 years before AV arrived when they went to the ECF, where they got smoked. The next year, they got smoked in the second round. AV deserves a ton of credit for pushing them as far as he did. It's not like he inherited a Cup winner. MSL's mom is pretty sure she did most of the work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/tmimn.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sod16 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 We got outcoached by the Sens too. We underacheived last year when our healthy roster should have eliminated Ottawa. I think that Ottawa taking Pitts to a second overtime in a 7th game really tended to let AV off the hook for a really bad loss in a series that we should have won fairly handily. All losses in series are painful, but this one was very bad and very avoidable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I think that Ottawa taking Pitts to a second overtime in a 7th game really tended to let AV off the hook for a really bad loss in a series that we should have won fairly handily. All losses in series are painful, but this one was very bad and very avoidable. That was clearly a series where the team didnt get up to play. We've discussed previously who gets the blame, and I always vote the players. Its the players, the leadership, the lockerroom mentality that gets you up for the game. Sure, the coach can give a speech a few times during the season and before an important playoff game, but when you are talking about a game to game basis, thats on the leadership in the room Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 I think it's a combination of all facets, Josh. The players ultimately are the ones to carry the out the strategy and make the plays. BUT...I still believe that the philosophy of this team is flawed in the way it approaches games and most definitely playoff games. This team is and has been WAY too soft. They lack intensity, discipline and they also lack any type of fire from the drop of the puck. They were not prepared all season long for whatever opponent we've played against and against Ottawa last year we looked very poor in some of those games. I get your point and I agree with the efforts and mistakes of some of the players, but the "system" that's in place is seriously dog shit. I don't think a team is going to win a cup with solely a "fast break offense, with no puck support, no hitting, no toughness, no centers, a coach that cannot matchup players and just rolls 4 lines". In my opinion, 50% falls on Mr. Softy here too. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slobberknocker Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 wanted to give this thread a bump. While I really like AV as a coach and understand the boards frustration with some of his short falls, I can see this type of nose dive can cost him his job. That being said, if he goes who would be a good intense young coach that can command the room and has a track record of developing youth. I dont have faith in Ruff for this going on the record. who do you think would be a good candidate ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torontonyr Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Sather/Gorton basically said he's staying the rest of the season, today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 He stays until the end of the year. If a good candidate or two (say Keefe and/or Queneville) is available, fire him and immediately interview. Worst case, he stays to start next season and if things look bleak, he's canned mid-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ba Ba Bluey Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 AV's system is great for the regular season...but stretch passes and space are extremely limited in playoffs. That's why he'll never win a cup as a head coach, he doesn't adjust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillyb Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 He stays until the end of the year. If a good candidate or two (say Keefe and/or Queneville) is available, fire him and immediately interview. Worst case, he stays to start next season and if things look bleak, he's canned mid-season. Was just talking to a friend of mine who's a Hawks fan. Told him that we were going to switch coaches next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Was just talking to a friend of mine who's a Hawks fan. Told him that we were going to switch coaches next season. So would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siddious Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 im still mad we went with AV instead of Laviolette when we did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giacomin Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 He stays until the end of the year. If a good candidate or two (say Keefe and/or Queneville) is available, fire him and immediately interview. Worst case, he stays to start next season and if things look bleak, he's canned mid-season. AV is gone at season end, it's time. Can't see how they start a new season with him. The best options are hired in the off season. The players we keep need a new voice and fresh outlook and clean slate. Keefe and Queneville will have jobs till the end of the year anyway. If anybody mgmt likes becomes available sooner, then they'll reach out to him. I would hope. I hope they are already building a list of candidates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 im still mad we went with AV instead of Laviolette when we did. He was still working on getting fired in Philly, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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