Game of Thrones (TV Show Discussion Only) *DO NOT POST SPOILERS*

[Dave]

Why is this being called rape? Sansa agreed to marry him, Littlefinger had given her the option to not go to Winterfell at all. She had to know there would be a bedding after the marriage. The sex might have been a little rough, a little kinky with Reek watching and certainly not what Sansa probably envisioned her first time, but she never says no, never asks or indicates he should stop, doesn't try to resist at all. He doesn't over power her. The closest to a threat was when he asks, connected to telling her to get undressed, "Do I need to ask a second time? I hate having to ask a second time."

 

If anything, Reek got raped in this scene, not Sansa. Maybe not in a traditional sense, he was threatened into participating into a sexual situation.

 

Wedding through the end. Jump to around 3:00 if you want to just see the lead up to the consummation.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BXMPInWum8

[Phil]

I dunno dude, that's still rape to me. He "forcibly" takes her. It's kind of implied by him ripping her dress and throwing over over the bed.

[siddious]

Yea, I would consider that rape. But that's what was expected of her one way or another.

 

With Stannis arriving, and Littlefinger on his way, the situation in the north is shaping up to be one of the more interesting things going on right now.

 

I think eventually Theon and Sansa team up to help take the Boltons down. But I am not sure how Stannis and Littlefinger will fit in with that.

[Dave]

I dunno dude, that's still rape to me. He "forcibly" takes her. It's kind of implied by him ripping her dress and throwing over over the bed.

 

Not all rough sex is rape. Was it inconsiderate? Sure, given that he knew it was Sansa's first time. But consummation of the wedding was expected, surely Sansa knew that it was at least a likely possibility when she agreed to marry Ramsey. So them having sex, given that she did not decline, in and of it self isn't rape. Or do you think someone has to explicitly verbalize consent not just to the act but also to the style of the act?

[Dave]

Yea, I would consider that rape. But that's what was expected of her one way or another.

 

With Stannis arriving, and Littlefinger on his way, the situation in the north is shaping up to be one of the more interesting things going on right now.

 

I think eventually Theon and Sansa team up to help take the Boltons down. But I am not sure how Stannis and Littlefinger will fit in with that.

 

But why? Is it just because Ramsey is a despicable character while Sansa isn't? Not enough for me. And if it was, did he also rape the girl who's been playing games with Sansa? And if so, where was the outrage?

 

I think this is just a case of a character people don't like being judged because of their interaction with a character people do.

[High and Wide]

I'm still not sure how I feel about it in a production sense. It seems gratuitous to me, but because of how they are playing this out in the show vs. the books, I guess it was necessary. It was still pretty uncomfortable to watch compared to every other gory/sexually violent scene the show has produced, despite the fact that nothing was actually shown. The implication was enough.

 

I have to agree with Drew though, the scene was much more about Theon than it was Sansa. The expectation was there for her that she'd need to consummate the marriage.

 

Final thought on the episode, during the battle/mild skirmish/slapbox between the Sand Snakes and Jaime/Bronn, who got cut on the arm, and were they poisoned? Being that only one person was perceivably injured during the fight, it was noticeable to me that one of the two were cut by a weapon from one of the Sand Snakes. Being daughters of Oberyn, I assume poison.

[Dave]

I'm still not sure how I feel about it in a production sense. It seems gratuitous to me, but because of how they are playing this out in the show vs. the books, I guess it was necessary. It was still pretty uncomfortable to watch compared to every other gory/sexually violent scene the show has produced, despite the fact that nothing was actually shown. The implication was enough.

 

I have to agree with Drew though, the scene was much more about Theon than it was Sansa. The expectation was there for her that she'd need to consummate the marriage.

 

Final thought on the episode, during the battle/mild skirmish/slapbox between the Sand Snakes and Jaime/Bronn, who got cut on the arm, and were they poisoned? Being that only one person was perceivably injured during the fight, it was noticeable to me that one of the two were cut by a weapon from one of the Sand Snakes. Being daughters of Oberyn, I assume poison.

 

Nice catch:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm8FQKS4EnM"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm8FQKS4EnM

 

1:55 in. Appears it was Bronn, right before the fight is stopped. And I can't help but agree with you. Having that be the only damage anyone faces, having it seem so mild considering and it happening a split second before the fight is stopped seems too coincidental.

[Drew a Penalty]

I'm still not sure how I feel about it in a production sense. It seems gratuitous to me, but because of how they are playing this out in the show vs. the books, I guess it was necessary. It was still pretty uncomfortable to watch compared to every other gory/sexually violent scene the show has produced, despite the fact that nothing was actually shown. The implication was enough.

 

I have to agree with Drew though, the scene was much more about Theon than it was Sansa. The expectation was there for her that she'd need to consummate the marriage.

 

Final thought on the episode, during the battle/mild skirmish/slapbox between the Sand Snakes and Jaime/Bronn, who got cut on the arm, and were they poisoned? Being that only one person was perceivably injured during the fight, it was noticeable to me that one of the two were cut by a weapon from one of the Sand Snakes. Being daughters of Oberyn, I assume poison.

 

Bronn was the one who got cut. Poison would be an interesting guess. If Bronn dies that could lead to some serious conflict. He might not be someone very important, but he's the former commander of the City Watch and married into a house now. If there's any way to start a war, that's the way. Jaime potentially imprisoned and Bronn dead. As much as I like Bronn, his death would at least make that shitty Sand Snakes scene worth it.

[High and Wide]

Nice catch:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm8FQKS4EnM"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm8FQKS4EnM

 

1:55 in. Appears it was Bronn, right before the fight is stopped. And I can't help but agree with you. Having that be the only damage anyone faces, having it seem so mild considering and it happening a split second before the fight is stopped seems too coincidental.

 

Bronn was the one who got cut. Poison would be an interesting guess. If Bronn dies that could lead to some serious conflict. He might not be someone very important, but he's the former commander of the City Watch and married into a house now. If there's any way to start a war, that's the way. Jaime potentially imprisoned and Bronn dead. As much as I like Bronn, his death would at least make that shitty Sand Snakes scene worth it.

 

Being that he's been elevated to Lord, I'd think that it's enough for there to be some retaliation, even moreso if Jaime is held captive. But the question is, does Doran hold the Commander of the Kingsguard captive against the crown? I think if anything, this pushes Doran to marry Trystane and Myrcella sooner.

[Phil]

Not all rough sex is rape. Was it inconsiderate? Sure, given that he knew it was Sansa's first time. But consummation of the wedding was expected, surely Sansa knew that it was at least a likely possibility when she agreed to marry Ramsey. So them having sex, given that she did not decline, in and of it self isn't rape. Or do you think someone has to explicitly verbalize consent not just to the act but also to the style of the act?

 

Well, we don't really know what happened. What I'm saying is the implication is he raped his own wife at the bedding ceremony, regardless of the fact that it's known that virgins lose their virginity when they're wed in Westeros.

 

The manner in which he took her implied rape, even if the visuals of the scene we did see aren't explicitly proving it.

 

I think Sansa simply accepted that there was nothing she could do about it, so fighting, screaming no, etc. would do nothing to help her. She simply had to—for lack of a better term—grin and bear it. It's still "technically" rape. She certainly didn't want to have sex with him, and assuredly not in that manner.

[Phil]

Bronn was the one who got cut. Poison would be an interesting guess. If Bronn dies that could lead to some serious conflict. He might not be someone very important, but he's the former commander of the City Watch and married into a house now. If there's any way to start a war, that's the way. Jaime potentially imprisoned and Bronn dead. As much as I like Bronn, his death would at least make that shitty Sand Snakes scene worth it.

 

Bronn has no purpose any longer. If he was poisoned, it's fine. If he dies, it's fine. It would just be part of the story right now with him helping Jamie but dying in the process.

[Dave]

Well, we don't really know what happened. What I'm saying is the implication is he raped his own wife at the bedding ceremony, regardless of the fact that it's known that virgins lose their virginity when they're wed in Westeros.

 

The manner in which he took her implied rape, even if the visuals of the scene we did see aren't explicitly proving it.

 

I think Sansa simply accepted that there was nothing she could do about it, so fighting, screaming no, etc. would do nothing to help her. She simply had to—for lack of a better term—grin and bear it. It's still "technically" rape. She certainly didn't want to have sex with him, and assuredly not in that manner.

 

Then that's her own stupidity. She knows that this kid's father double crossed her family, helping kill her mother, brother and sister-in-law. Did she think that the wedding wouldn't get consummated? Or that maybe she'd have the romance she's always dreamed of? No. She made a calculated risk and this is the price. We'll see if it pays off in the end.

 

This is the "Old woman and the snake" otherwise.

[Drew a Penalty]

Bronn has no purpose any longer. If he was poisoned, it's fine. If he dies, it's fine. It would just be part of the story right now with him helping Jamie but dying in the process.

 

He doesn't really have much purpose, but I'd say he has some purpose. Dorne and Kingslanding are on very bad terms. If you get someone loyal to the crown and Lannisters, Bronn, who dies under Dornish captivity while with the Head of the Kingsguard, that's some serious shit there. He might not have a large role alive anymore with Tyrion gone, but he certainly could have a big one dead.

[Dave]

Bronn has no purpose any longer. If he was poisoned, it's fine. If he dies, it's fine. It would just be part of the story right now with him helping Jamie but dying in the process.

 

Bronn has no purpose to the story anymore at this point, although he could in the future one supposes. At the same time, he does have tremendous value from an audience stand point. He's a character you can really get behind and he's been acted phenomenally well. I would imagine his death would be near the top of fan favorites getting the ax to this point. Less shocking than Rob or Ned, but I don't think either of those two had the audience connection that Bronn does.

[Phil]

Then that's her own stupidity. She knows that this kid's father double crossed her family, helping kill her mother, brother and sister-in-law. Did she think that the wedding wouldn't get consummated? Or that maybe she'd have the romance she's always dreamed of? No. She made a calculated risk and this is the price. We'll see if it pays off in the end.

 

This is the "Old woman and the snake" otherwise.

 

No, she knew the wedding would be consummated, and in a very unpleasant fashion (aside from the unpleasant fact she'd be losing her virginity to a piece of shit like Ramsay). She accepts this based on playing the game, understanding her role in this world and what short term pain means for long-term gain.

 

That's just the way I read it.

 

He doesn't really have much purpose, but I'd say he has some purpose. Dorne and Kingslanding are on very bad terms. If you get someone loyal to the crown and Lannisters, Bronn, who dies under Dornish captivity while with the Head of the Kingsguard, that's some serious shit there. He might not have a large role alive anymore with Tyrion gone, but he certainly could have a big one dead.

 

Bronn has no purpose to the story anymore at this point, although he could in the future one supposes. At the same time, he does have tremendous value from an audience stand point. He's a character you can really get behind and he's been acted phenomenally well. I would imagine his death would be near the top of fan favorites getting the ax to this point. Less shocking than Rob or Ned, but I don't think either of those two had the audience connection that Bronn does.

 

And that's fine, if he dies. Frankly, he probably should. I wish this show, considering how far they've strayed from the books anyway, would start killing off these irrelevant characters.

 

Brienne, Bronn, Podrick and others are all floaters anymore.

[siddious]

No, she knew the wedding would be consummated, and in a very unpleasant fashion (aside from the unpleasant fact she'd be losing her virginity to a piece of shit like Ramsay). She accepts this based on playing the game, understanding her role in this world and what short term pain means for long-term gain.

 

That's just the way I read it.

 

 

 

 

 

And that's fine, if he dies. Frankly, he probably should. I wish this show, considering how far they've strayed from the books anyway, would start killing off these irrelevant characters.

 

Brienne, Bronn, Podrick and others are all floaters anymore.

 

If they are still showing them I am assuming they will still play some sort of a part in the story. At least Brienne. For all we know Bronn could very well be dead if he was in fact poisoned. I think we will find out in the next episode or two for sure with Stannis and Littlefinger both "attacking" Winterfell. My guess is she saves Sansa and helps her some how rule Winterfell? I dunno haha

[Dave]

If they are still showing them I am assuming they will still play some sort of a part in the story. At least Brienne. For all we know Bronn could very well be dead if he was in fact poisoned. I think we will find out in the next episode or two for sure with Stannis and Littlefinger both "attacking" Winterfell. My guess is she saves Sansa and helps her some how rule Winterfell? I dunno haha

 

How about this. Stannis and Littlefinger retake Winterfell. Littlefinger makes his move, asking Sansa to marry him. She says no and tells him that she's know he was trying to use her as his pawn for a while. Stanis backs her because it's the righteous thing to do, says something about her brother, John Snow helping him back at the Wall. And of course, the Vale would support her as the rightful heir of Winterfell, especially if she lets it out that Littlefinger pushed Lysa through the skydoor. Brienne stays on as Sansas' protector and Sansa makes Podrick a Knight.

[siddious]

How about this. Stannis and Littlefinger retake Winterfell. Littlefinger makes his move, asking Sansa to marry him. She says no and tells him that she's know he was trying to use her as his pawn for a while. Stanis backs her because it's the righteous thing to do, says something about her brother, John Snow helping him back at the Wall. And of course, the Vale would support her as the rightful heir of Winterfell, especially if she lets it out that Littlefinger pushed Lysa through the skydoor. Brienne stays on as Sansas' protector and Sansa makes Podrick a Knight.

 

Boom! send it to GRRM, maybe it will help him finish the books a little quicker.

[Phil]

How about this. Stannis and Littlefinger retake Winterfell. Littlefinger makes his move, asking Sansa to marry him. She says no and tells him that she's know he was trying to use her as his pawn for a while. Stanis backs her because it's the righteous thing to do, says something about her brother, John Snow helping him back at the Wall. And of course, the Vale would support her as the rightful heir of Winterfell, especially if she lets it out that Littlefinger pushed Lysa through the skydoor. Brienne stays on as Sansas' protector and Sansa makes Podrick a Knight.

 

Boom! send it to GRRM, maybe it will help him finish the books a little quicker.

 

Hi Dave,

 

Thanks so much for writing me. It's always encouraging to see my fans' deep appreciation for my life's work, but it really bothers me when you guys and gals can start predicting so much of what will happen.

 

How's this for a counter — Stannis and Littlefinger try to re-take Winterfell, but a giant ice demon comes out from the ground and berths a swarm of ultra-walkers who kill everyone. The demon takes the throne and says that he's the new King in the North. Just as this happens, Cersei is raped by Ser Loras, who fucks her in the Sept the way Jamie did, except in front of everyone to prove he's not gay! But he impregnates her. Oops. So now she's gonna have another kid. Jamie is so mad at this that he marries Brienne, who accidentally dies when she falls off her horse. But wait, what's this now? A new character is coming! His name is Rh'alifer P'tuny Fushmush and he says that he is the rightful King of the Andals and is going to war with ALL of Westeros!

 

I should be able to get like eight more books out of this, right?

 

Let me know what you think.

 

Thanks,

George

[siddious]

Hi Dave,

 

Thanks so much for writing me. It's always encouraging to see my fans' deep appreciation for my life's work, but it really bothers me when you guys and gals can start predicting so much of what will happen.

 

How's this for a counter — Stannis and Littlefinger try to re-take Winterfell, but a giant ice demon comes out from the ground and berths a swarm of ultra-walkers who kill everyone. The demon takes the throne and says that he's the new King in the North. Just as this happens, Cersei is raped by Ser Loras, who fucks her in the Sept the way Jamie did, except in front of everyone to prove he's not gay! But he impregnates her. Oops. So now she's gonna have another kid. Jamie is so mad at this that he marries Brienne, who accidentally dies when she falls off her horse. But wait, what's this now? A new character is coming! His name is Rh'alifer P'tuny Fushmush and he says that he is the rightful King of the Andals and is going to war with ALL of Westeros!

 

I should be able to get like eight more books out of this, right?

 

Let me know what you think.

 

Thanks,

George

 

Okay damn this is why hes the master. I definitely like this version a lot more.

 

Although you bring up a good point.. if ever there was a good time for the white walkers to make an appearance below the wall, it would be now. 2 books left I am starting to wonder how they will ever fit in at all in the story.

[Dave]

Okay damn this is why hes the master. I definitely like this version a lot more.

 

Although you bring up a good point.. if ever there was a good time for the white walkers to make an appearance below the wall, it would be now. 2 books left I am starting to wonder how they will ever fit in at all in the story.

 

I think you'd need to work in some teleportation for the White Walkers though. And wouldn't that be an absolute bitch for John Snow if he went through all he goes through at the Wall, only for the White Walkers to beat him with science and be all like, John Snow you know nothing. Later bastard!

[siddious]

I think you'd need to work in some teleportation for the White Walkers though. And wouldn't that be an absolute bitch for John Snow if he went through all he goes through at the Wall, only for the White Walkers to beat him with science and be all like, John Snow you know nothing. Later bastard!

 

haha well I didnt necessarily mean they get over the wall without anyone knowing but more in terms of "oh hey look I just conquered winterfell.. what news do the ravens bring? oh the white walkers are attacking the wall and are coming for us next? cool"

 

When I first started watching the show/reading the books I honestly thought that they would play a much larger role than they have so far.

[Phil]

Hi Dave,

 

Me again. So I'm thinking, white walkers are kind of uncool now. Everyone knows how to kill them. What about BLACK WALKERS!? They're like zombies from 28 days later. Just crazy. Super speed, with giant teeth, and they re-grow limbs when they're cut off. EVEN THEIR HEADS!

 

I can totally get to like twelve books with this. Let me know what you think!

 

Thanks,

George

[siddious]

Can we work some jedi knights into this as well since were at it?

[H-Dreamer]

I think you'd need to work in some teleportation for the White Walkers though. And wouldn't that be an absolute bitch for John Snow if he went through all he goes through at the Wall, only for the White Walkers to beat him with science and be all like, John Snow you know nothing. Later bastard!

 

They can just use the device Littlefinger is using to get from Winterfell to King's Landing in a blink.