Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Yeah and even if they do that, it leaves them with around 1-2m for a 6th Nhl level D. They are going to have to shed a salary. The following players all have NTC or NMC Hedman (nmc), McD, Stamkos (nmc), Palat, Gourde, Johnson, Killorn. It’s like 45m in contracts very hard to move and player controlled. There are three big contracts they can move. Vasy, Point, and Kucherov who’s ntc kicks in next year which makes them even more screwed. Yzerman just made a fucking mess and jumped ship lol. Looked like a genius at the time, but a lot of the contracts has been bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirik Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 It’s not even taking into account that they look like they only have 10 forwards under contract too. Hell, someone might get Kucherov out of this lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirik Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 People like to make fun of Toronto for their hot mess but the majority of all their contracts don’t include movement clauses. Tavares is the only gigantic contract they have with a NMC right now. Mathews, Nylander, Mariner, Kerfoot, Johnsson, Kapanen, all can actually be traded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew a Penalty Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 People like to make fun of Toronto for their hot mess but the majority of all their contracts don’t include movement clauses. Tavares is the only gigantic contract they have with a NMC right now. Mathews, Nylander, Mariner, Kerfoot, Johnsson, Kapanen, all can actually be traded. They do. It's just that they don't apply yet. NMCs and NTCs only apply to UFA years. Most of Toronto's players are sub 27. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirik Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 They do. It's just that they don't apply yet. NMCs and NTCs only apply to UFA years. Most of Toronto's players are sub 27. But as of right now they can be traded right? That was just what I’m getting at. Most of those movement clauses don’t kick in for 3-4 seasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindG1000 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 I just don’t know how they afford Buch even at 3m. They have under 6m cap space before even signing Cirelli, Sergachev, or Cernack leaving them decimated at D with very little room to get anyone outside of keeping both Cernak and Sergachev. They can afford to lose a Point because of all the offense they have. I figured Miller because he might be closer to making the NHL and would be on an entry level deal. I’m not sure their prospect pool but still Holy hell, yeah, wow, they're in a bad place here. They almost assuredly need to trade Palat, Killorn, Point, Cirelli, Johnson or McDonagh here. Something's gotta give. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew a Penalty Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 But as of right now they can be traded right? That was just what I’m getting at. Most of those movement clauses don’t kick in for 3-4 seasons In theory yes. I mean, you can still be traded with an NMC and/or NTC because those also have variable levels of protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirik Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Holy hell, yeah, wow, they're in a bad place here. They almost assuredly need to trade Palat, Killorn, Point, Cirelli, Johnson or McDonagh here. Something's gotta give. Yeah, they are in very tough shape, and any team negotiating trades basically have the upper hand automatically. Time to strike and not go for a complimentary player on a team with enough horses to lose one, and we want a center. In theory yes. I mean, you can still be traded with an NMC and/or NTC because those also have variable levels of protection. Yeah, just the years before the movement clauses they aren’t hindered by player wishes and blessings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 The circumstances don't compare at all to DeAngelo. DeAngelo played his first full season and put up a .5 ppg. There wasn't much to work off of to determine what kind of pay he should get. He had only played 32 and 39 games the prior two seasons. Compare that to Sergachev who has three full 30+ point seasons. Cirelli has two seasons played at a 40 point clip but was considered by many in the hockey community to be deserving of a Selke trophy nomination this season. I don't think there's even remotely a chance either would sign for one year less than a $1M. Cernak maybe. That only matters if it makes them more attractive to an offer sheet, which it might. Otherwise, they have zero leverage just like DeAngelo. It's either take what TB is willing to give or holdout. I do think someone will offer sheet at least one though if TB plays hardball, but I do not think it will be us. Montreal has already shown a willingness to do it with Aho last year. Wouldn't be surprised in the least to see them muck it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 I just don’t know how they afford Buch even at 3m. They have under 6m cap space before even signing Cirelli, Sergachev, or Cernack leaving them decimated at D with very little room to get anyone outside of keeping both Cernak and Sergachev. They can afford to lose a Point because of all the offense they have. I figured Miller because he might be closer to making the NHL and would be on an entry level deal. I’m not sure their prospect pool but still They are in a tight spot, but they could make it work. Point to Buchnevich frees up another 3.5M. Problem is it might only be for a year, because then they might not be able to afford Buchnevich's next contract. So maybe you're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flynn Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Yzerman just made a fucking mess and jumped ship lol. Looked like a genius at the time, but a lot of the contracts has been bad. 100% correct.. Same with Lou Lamoriello- Left Toronto with some really shitty deals that Dubas had to clean up- trading a 1st to get rid of Marleau- the horrid Nikita Zaitsev deal.. Sometimes the geniuses aren't that smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew a Penalty Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 That only matters if it makes them more attractive to an offer sheet, which it might. Otherwise, they have zero leverage just like DeAngelo. It's either take what TB is willing to give or holdout. They will most definitely hold out then. There's absolutely no reason for them to take less, unlike DeAngelo who didn't have a track record to go on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirik Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 It’s not even like they have a ton of contracts coming off the following year either. If they kept all three one one year show me deals, of 1.5m each, the following year they have 12m to work with assuming not one other transaction this offseason or during the year brings in a contract. That is impossible given they would still need another few deals to replace the Coleman’s and Coburn type of guys too plus a new backup after next season and still need more bodies in this offseason. This specific offseason they need to shed at least one big contract cup or not. Any good agent will look at these rfas and say “kid, they aren’t going to be able to pay you for two more contracts” with a two year flat cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainMorganBarron Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 Listening to JD talk about K'Andre Miller I have a feeling he makes the team this season whenever that may be. why shouldn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 They will most definitely hold out then. There's absolutely no reason for them to take less, unlike DeAngelo who didn't have a track record to go on. How does holding out do them any good? It hurts them more than the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew a Penalty Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 How does holding out do them any good? It hurts them more than the team. Why would they accept a salary so far below what's market value for them? You can't give the DeAngelo example because that doesn't apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 Why would they accept a salary so far below what's market value for them? You can't give the DeAngelo example because that doesn't apply. Because the alternative is sitting out not playing hockey and making $0. It's really a no win situation for the player barring an offer sheet. Otherwise they have to suck it up until arbitration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsm7302 Posted August 15, 2020 Author Share Posted August 15, 2020 We have so many pieces in hand to make a deal for a 2nd line center; i cant see how they don't make it happen. I did think Strome could be that piece but now I second guess that idea. Choosing the target is the hard part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainMorganBarron Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 We have so many pieces in hand to make a deal for a 2nd line center; i cant see how they don't make it happen. I did think Strome could be that piece but now I second guess that idea. Choosing the target is the hard part. I would not rush to make a trade until we have better understanding what we have and what are our holes. Also have to wait for Lundqvist to announce if he is retiring or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew a Penalty Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 Because the alternative is sitting out not playing hockey and making $0. It's really a no win situation for the player barring an offer sheet. Otherwise they have to suck it up until arbitration. When has that stopped players form holding out before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 When has that stopped players form holding out before? Examples? The most recent one I can think of is William Nylander, and his absence was far more detrimental to his team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirik Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 Examples? The most recent one I can think of is William Nylander, and his absence was far more detrimental to his team. You need another example that him that held out at some time? Rantanen, Conner, Laine? Or Tkachuk, Boesser, and Point from Tampa. All recently held out for what ever amount of times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravesy Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 why shouldn't he? Well, he'll get his chance like everybody else. But he's young, raw and lacks experience playing D. It wouldn't be surprising if they make him cut his teeth in Hartford first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 You need another example that him that held out at some time? Rantanen, Conner, Laine? Or Tkachuk, Boesser, and Point from Tampa. All recently held out for what ever amount of times. They signed during camp. Bad, but not as bad as missing part of the regular season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirik Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 They signed during camp. Bad, but not as bad as missing part of the regular season. Well the point is they were holding out. Not for long, but still. It happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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