Will Cuylle Appreciation Thread

[Phil]

2 minutes ago, Pete said:

Any move that subtracts from the roster will come in the summer. That is certain.

 

The bolded names likely aren't going anywhere. They're just not. Everyone needs to stop suggesting it until it happens. Kakko can be an established 3rd line cost controlled checking winger. He isn't gonna get paid. And he's young. He's the kind of guy you look for, why are we trading him? He also has no value, so what are you getting? Another team's trash.

 

If the team flames out, Kreider should be #1 to go.

1. Failed here the longest
2. Easy contract to trade
3. Will get you the most back

Can't see how this can be argued. If you want to change the culture, that's where you start.

 

I mean, I can't deny it from that perspective, I just think that knife cuts deep if you do. We're talking about the all-time franchise leader in playoff games played, playoff goals scored, and a guy who is currently third all-time in goals as a Ranger and 49 away from tying for second.

 

But also, Will Cuylle rules.

[BrooksBurner]

Kreider isn't the problem. They need more of his willingness to play around the net and do the dirty work along the boards, not less. He's elite at those things. The option to trade him and his bargain cap hit is always presented through the lens that it will somehow help the team win now. That's insane. If they trade him, it should be as a white flag that they don't see the NMC core being good enough and it's pre-kicking off a reset. That means the return would be asset-based and maybe includes a young roster player with upside. See: the Derek Stepan trade (1st + DeAngelo).

[Phil]

1 minute ago, BrooksBurner said:

Kreider isn't the problem. They need more of his willingness to play around the net and do the dirty work along the boards, not less. He's elite at those things. The option to trade him and his bargain cap hit is always presented through the lens that it will somehow help the team win now. That's insane. If they trade him, it should be as a white flag that they don't see the NMC core being good enough and it's pre-kicking off a reset. That means the return would be asset-based and maybe includes a young roster player with upside. See: the Derek Stepan trade (1st + DeAngelo).

 

This, this, this. You trade Kreider, it's not a shot across the bow, it's lighting the first beacon of Gondor en route to another full-scale rebuild. It's basically the F equivalent of the McDonagh trade.

[siddious]

5 minutes ago, Pete said:

Any move that subtracts from the roster will come in the summer. That is certain.

 

The bolded names likely aren't going anywhere. They're just not. Everyone needs to stop suggesting it until it happens. Kakko can be an established 3rd line cost controlled checking winger. He isn't gonna get paid. And he's young. He's the kind of guy you look for, why are we trading him? He also has no value, so what are you getting? Another team's trash.

 

If the team flames out, Kreider should be #1 to go.

1. Failed here the longest
2. Easy contract to trade
3. Will get you the most back

Can't see how this can be argued. If you want to change the culture, that's where you start.

3 years after this season and a NMC.. I am not so sure its THAT easy to move it.

[Valriera]

2 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

Kreider isn't the problem. They need more of his willingness to play around the net and do the dirty work along the boards, not less. He's elite at those things. The option to trade him and his bargain cap hit is always presented through the lens that it will somehow help the team win now. That's insane. If they trade him, it should be as a white flag that they don't see the NMC core being good enough and it's pre-kicking off a reset. That means the return would be asset-based and maybe includes a young roster player with upside. See: the Derek Stepan trade (1st + DeAngelo).

Kreider hasn't made a play around the net or dirty work along the boards since he was born, and it's a far, far cry to call him elite at any of those things. he used to be an elite skater and shooter. Idk where that went either. He's elite on the powerplay in front of the net. That's about it. 

 

The reason he's good trade bait is because of his numbers. Buying ~30-50g for 6.5M is hard no matter where you go shopping. If we trade him, it's because we think we can backfill those from Lafreniere getting more time and potentially someone like Cuylle getting more time in the top six. I think we're nowhere near ready for that. 

 

[Phil]

1 minute ago, Valriera said:

Kreider hasn't made a play around the net or dirty work along the boards since he was born, and it's a far, far cry to call him elite at any of those things. he used to be an elite skater and shooter. Idk where that went either. He's elite on the powerplay in front of the net. That's about it. 

 

The reason he's good trade bait is because of his numbers. Buying ~30-50g for 6.5M is hard no matter where you go shopping. If we trade him, it's because we think we can backfill those from Lafreniere getting more time and potentially someone like Cuylle getting more time in the top six. I think we're nowhere near ready for that.

 

...did you even see who made the behind-the-net pass to Trocheck last night for his goal?

[Pete]

8 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

Kreider isn't the problem. They need more of his willingness to play around the net and do the dirty work along the boards, not less. He's elite at those things. The option to trade him and his bargain cap hit is always presented through the lens that it will somehow help the team win now. That's insane. If they trade him, it should be as a white flag that they don't see the NMC core being good enough and it's pre-kicking off a reset. That means the return would be asset-based and maybe includes a young roster player with upside. See: the Derek Stepan trade (1st + DeAngelo).

This is a myth. He doesn't go to the boards, and when he does, how often does he come out with a puck? Not often enough for a guy his size.

 

Also, next time you watch a game, I want you to count how many times you see him in the frame striding not gliding.

 

You can't seriously talk about trading Panarin in one thread and then completely dismiss trading Kreider in another thread. The logic isn't there.

Edited January 22 by Pete

[BrooksBurner]

3 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

This, this, this. You trade Kreider, it's not a shot across the bow, it's lighting the first beacon of Gondor en route to another full-scale rebuild. It's basically the F equivalent of the McDonagh trade.

 

And I will also add that I may be receptive to the idea depending on how this season ends. If Stepan got what he got, Kreider would fetch a metric shit ton at his cap hit for 3 more years. My opinion is TBD, but there's a chance I'm good with re-stocking the cupboards and just letting the Panarin era max out as a pretender until his contract is done. I'd like to see what this Bread 2.0 version does in the playoffs first.

[Phil]

5 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

And I will also add that I may be receptive to the idea depending on how this season ends. If Stepan got what he got, Kreider would fetch a metric shit ton at his cap hit for 3 more years. My opinion is TBD, but there's a chance I'm good with re-stocking the cupboards and just letting the Panarin era max out as a pretender until his contract is done. I'd like to see what this Bread 2.0 version does in the playoffs first.

 

I mean, I guess me too, but I'm gonna be dragged kicking and screaming on any potential Kreider trade. Like, I already preemptively hate it, and whatever prospects they're getting for him are already not good enough in my mind lol.

[BrooksBurner]

5 minutes ago, Valriera said:

Kreider hasn't made a play around the net or dirty work along the boards since he was born, and it's a far, far cry to call him elite at any of those things. he used to be an elite skater and shooter. Idk where that went either. He's elite on the powerplay in front of the net. That's about it. 

 

 

That's a thought.. Forum rules prohibit me from elaborating, but that's a thought indeed.¹

 

¹ Flynn. https://www.blueshirtsbrotherhood.com/topic/24929-will-cuylle-appreciation-thread/?do=findComment&comment=1027904

 

[Pete]

3 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

I mean, I guess me too, but I'm gonna be dragged kicking and screaming on any potential Kreider trade. Like, I already preemptively hate it, and whatever prospects they're getting for him are already not good enough in my mind lol.

Stepan got the #7 overall and a guy who, if he got out of his own way, would have been a top PP talent (with defensive deficiency, granted).

 

What do you think Kreider gets you? I'd say at least a top 7 pick + from a team that wants to accelerate a rebuild.

[Phil]

Just now, Pete said:

Stepan got the #7 overall and a guy who, if he got out of his own way, would have been a top PP talent (with defensive deficiency, granted).

 

What do you think Kreider gets you? I'd say at least a top 7 pick + from a team that wants to accelerate a rebuild.

 

[Pete]

2 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Depends on the "+" and who else gets moved.

[Flynn]

8 minutes ago, Pete said:

Stepan got the #7 overall and a guy who, if he got out of his own way, would have been a top PP talent (with defensive deficiency, granted).

 

What do you think Kreider gets you? I'd say at least a top 7 pick + from a team that wants to accelerate a rebuild.

Not to derail.. but what a shit trade for Arizona (only mitigated because Lias was such a pant load.... and TD was one of the actual turds in Andersons pants) 

 

 

OK.. So maybe not as bas as I remember. 

Edited January 22 by Flynn

[Phil]

4 minutes ago, Pete said:

Depends on the "+" and who else gets moved.

 

None of this will heal my broken heart, bro.

[BrooksBurner]

11 minutes ago, Pete said:

This is a myth. He doesn't go to the boards, and when he does, how often does he come out with a puck? Not often enough for a guy his size.

 

Also, next time you watch a game, I want you to count how many times you see him in the frame striding not gliding.

 

You can't seriously talk about trading Panarin in one thread and then completely dismiss trading Kreider in another thread. The logic isn't there.

 

Yes he does. A lot. All the time. He doesn't body check and people seem to equate that to board battles or playing hard. His positioning and use of his size to get possession is outstanding.

 

There's a difference between gliding while in good position versus gliding while out of position. Good players have a tendency to do the former. Bad players do the latter. The distinction makes a world of difference.

 

Don't make this about Panarin. It's a Will Cuylle thread and the only reason Kreider is being talked about is because someone said a 25 point Cuylle could replace Kreider.

[Albatrosss]

3 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

Yes he does. A lot. All the time. He doesn't body check and people seem to equate that to board battles or playing hard. His positioning and use of his size to get possession is outstanding.

 

There's a difference between gliding while in good position versus gliding while out of position. Good players have a tendency to do the former. Bad players do the latter. The distinction makes a world of difference.

 

Don't make this about Panarin. It's a Will Cuylle thread and the only reason Kreider is being talked about is because someone said a 25 point Cuylle could replace Kreider.

next game you watch if he wins a puckbattle along the boards.  It almost never happens.  Nor does Zib, for that matter.  

Kreids' trade value has to be thru the roof and i think he the first who has to go in off-season, regardless of the playoffs outcome.  

 

Zib is next but his position is going to be hard to replace

[Drew a Penalty]

1 hour ago, siddious said:

Have loved this kid since game 1. If Othman can be as much of a pest as they say he might be as well then this team is suddenly becoming a lot tougher to play against in the next 2-3 years.

 

I know Sykora isnt lighting it up in the AHL but hes rumored to be an insane forechecker/pest as well.

 

Othmann profiles more like a Trocheck type. Runs his mouth, makes sneaky plays that aren't worthy of a penalty but are enough to rile the opposition. He's really a rat. His game is physical without the same kind of kaboom you get from Cuylle at this level because of his size and speed.

 

Sykora is somewhere in the Jesper Fast/Tyler Motte archetype. He's relentless but he's also more of a Lady Byng type player in that he's very respectful in his style of attack. He finishes checks without any question of legality and isn't one to engage heavily in extracurriculars.

[BrooksBurner]

10 minutes ago, Pete said:

Stepan got the #7 overall and a guy who, if he got out of his own way, would have been a top PP talent (with defensive deficiency, granted).

 

What do you think Kreider gets you? I'd say at least a top 7 pick + from a team that wants to accelerate a rebuild.

 

The difference is Stepan was 27 and that age is still semi-attractive to franchises in that pick range because they could look at him and say it's a center with prime years to go as their team turns a corner. Kreider's NTC list will probably nix anyone in the top 10, and they probably wouldn't want to trade futures for a 33 year old Kreider anyway. It'd be a team picking in the mid-teens or later who are in or transitioning to win now mode.

[LindG1000]

Kreider is this polarizing precisely because he constantly gives the impression of not trying hard enough.

 

Last night, he had two plays emblematic of him in the third period.

 

Play 1 - He leaves the box, receives a pass and is on a breakaway. He had the speed to get in across the goalie and created a very high danger chance, and he SLOWS DOWN to pass the puck.

Play 2 - He gets a pass off the near boards from Zibanejad, skates in ahead of the RD, takes a shot, and in one move, skates into and bats in the rebound of his own shot.

 

And it's that maddening inconsistency that gets you with him. He's so clearly talented, so clearly capable of doing amazing things, so clearly capable of rewriting the Rangers record book, and he just...sometimes doesn't do anything. In spite of that, he's one of the most prolific goalscorers of the last four seasons.

 

If you're trading him this ofseason, you're talking about trading the second best PP scorer in the NHL, probably close to 125 goals across the past three years, and almost assuredly signaling the start of a teardown regardless of the return.

[BrooksBurner]

7 minutes ago, Albatrosss said:

next game you watch if he wins a puckbattle along the boards.  It almost never happens.  Nor does Zib, for that matter.  

Kreids' trade value has to be thru the roof and i think he the first who has to go in off-season, regardless of the playoffs outcome.  

 

Zib is next but his position is going to be hard to replace

 

Oh yeah? Well you smell like old fish. So there.

[jsm7302]

1 hour ago, Flynn said:

I'm not at all saying he's untouchable.. But he is a hell of a lot more valuable than Adam Fucking Henrique . If you remove a pillar, you need someone or a combination to replace that foundational support in the aggregate.  

 

 

 

The name Adam Fucking Henrique is copyrighted and any use, retransmissions, pictures, descriptions, or accounts of this assholes name without the express written permission of Phil are prohibited.

Hate Henrique all y'all want but he is what we need in that third line pivot spot. If it ain't him, it sure will look like him.

[jsm7302]

58 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

I mean, I can't deny it from that perspective, I just think that knife cuts deep if you do. We're talking about the all-time franchise leader in playoff games played, playoff goals scored, and a guy who is currently third all-time in goals as a Ranger and 49 away from tying for second.

 

But also, Will Cuylle rules.

Helluva messages to a team that hasn't gotten it done.

[siddious]

18 minutes ago, Drew a Penalty said:

 

Othmann profiles more like a Trocheck type. Runs his mouth, makes sneaky plays that aren't worthy of a penalty but are enough to rile the opposition. He's really a rat. His game is physical without the same kind of kaboom you get from Cuylle at this level because of his size and speed.

 

Sykora is somewhere in the Jesper Fast/Tyler Motte archetype. He's relentless but he's also more of a Lady Byng type player in that he's very respectful in his style of attack. He finishes checks without any question of legality and isn't one to engage heavily in extracurriculars.

I knew you would chime in to correct me lol

 

Never the less I will take another (cheaper) Trochek and Fast.

[Valriera]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

 

...did you even see who made the behind-the-net pass to Trocheck last night for his goal?

Yeah it was a great play. When was the last time he did that prior to last night?