Tied for the Most Points at Christmas Break

[Long live the King]

19 minutes ago, jsrangers said:

Agreed some things are different for sure, mostly to me they're a team not just a bunch of individuals, full credit to Lavy for that.

 

But Pete you really think Chytil is a number two center on a serious cup contender? I don't think so he can't even carry Tro's jock at this point in his career. I don't see how he can be counted on for much of anything going forward until he proves it.  I think the hope was always that Chytil grew into the 2 center and except for a 5 game heater in the playoffs there's been no sign of it.

 

Lost their #1 goalie? the backup lost for the first time in regulation in what 11 games just two games ago.  Rotating top line right wing, your just moving around deck chairs, Kakko is a JAG or a hair above at this stage in his career. He like Wheeler shouldn't be near anybody's top line based on play. Right now when he returns he probably sends Brodzinski packing?

 

They still struggle in many of the same areas. That's unfortunate. Racking up points in the regular season is great but if I remember right the team with the most regular season point usually don't take the cup. In response to the thought that we bitch nd the team has the most points in the league.

 

Do I give credit to Lavy for being way better than GG, YES. Do I still think there's big issues (unless regular season champs is the ultimate goal) YES. Final grades don't get published until the spring.

 

 

 

With Kakko they were 1st in GA.  Without Kakko they are 23rd.  The team would be much better with Chytil as the second line center and Cuylle-Trocheck-Kakko as the 3rd line.

[delneggs]

It's hard to complain much about a team that is in first place at the holiday break.  They have some weak spots for sure, but so far they have far more strengths going for them so I disagree that their record is luck. Good teams find ways to win games, even when they are not playing that well, and they have been doing this lately.  Keep in mind they are doing it with Bonino at 3C with Chytil out for 23 games now, and with Brodziniski instead of Kakko for a while as well.  Plus Fox was out for about 10 games and Igor missed a few, so their depth has really stepped up and delivered, and good teams need good depth.  

 

In my opinion, after the break they need to improve their effort game in and game out and stop showing up for 20 or 40 minutes some games and play a full hard 60 minute game, every game. They also need to stop being so soft as a team.  Outside of Trouba and Cuylee, nobody has played physical games consistently.  Pitlik does sometimes, goodie, sometimes, Lindy sometimes, but its far to little. Soft hockey won't fly come the playoffs so they better wake up and start hitting someone or trade for a few guys that will.  

[Br4d]

I'm not complaining at all.  The Rangers have given us a good first 32 games.

 

They are going to have to do better to maintain the pace though and I'm pretty sure Laviolette and his brain trust know this.

[Pete]

2 hours ago, jsrangers said:

Agreed some things are different for sure, mostly to me they're a team not just a bunch of individuals, full credit to Lavy for that.

 

But Pete you really think Chytil is a number two center on a serious cup contender? I don't think so he can't even carry Tro's jock at this point in his career. I don't see how he can be counted on for much of anything going forward until he proves it.  I think the hope was always that Chytil grew into the 2 center and except for a 5 game heater in the playoffs there's been no sign of it.

 

Lost their #1 goalie? the backup lost for the first time in regulation in what 11 games just two games ago.  Rotating top line right wing, your just moving around deck chairs, Kakko is a JAG or a hair above at this stage in his career. He like Wheeler shouldn't be near anybody's top line based on play. Right now when he returns he probably sends Brodzinski packing?

 

They still struggle in many of the same areas. That's unfortunate. Racking up points in the regular season is great but if I remember right the team with the most regular season point usually don't take the cup. In response to the thought that we bitch nd the team has the most points in the league.

 

Do I give credit to Lavy for being way better than GG, YES. Do I still think there's big issues (unless regular season champs is the ultimate goal) YES. Final grades don't get published until the spring.

 

 

It doesn't matter what you think of Chytil. He was the number 2 center and his injury meant Bonino was elevated to a 3rd line role. That would have been true regardless if Chytil was the number two or number three center. 

 

Same thing with Quick. It's like you don't want to give the coaching staff any credit for resurrecting the guy's career. 

 

I'm also pretty tired of hearing "only playoffs matter". If that's the case, then those who feel that way should just stop posting until the playoffs start. You have to go thru the regular season to get to the playoffs.

[The Dude]

Lmao. Now we are pacing the Rangers season?

 

Can we stop with this nonsense? Last week everyone was shitting on Zibanejad. "Oh, he's not really a 1st line center,  he's only pacing 79 points."  Like 5 days later he's pacing 84.  

 

This team has made big strides all over the ice. Sure, there's glimpses of bad habits from the last 2 years, but the positive totally outweighs the negative.  

 

They have pulled through despite a bunch of injuries.  They're not 100% where they want to be yet. There's guys that have maybe peaked already, while there's guys that are just getting it going or reaching their predicted play. 

 

There will certainly be moves made. That was a given to start the season. But let's not discredit the guys missing from the lineup.  Especially Chytil.

 

The bottom six is a skeleton crew. That's a potential 40+ point forward replaced by a guy that will be lucky to reach 10-15 points (Bonino). Nevermind how Trocheck has upped his production by clicking with Panarin (not really very much lately though).   Kakko stunk and I lost a lot of faith in him, but he certainly leaves more of an imprint than Brodzinski.  

 

On D, I feel like Fox hasn't even been close to being "on" , while Gustafsson was playing great (he's kinda fizzled out compared to his start). Miller is Miller, and Trouba has been pretty solid. 

 

Shesterkin has been average,  but I think he's about to get in his groove. 

 

While this team is still very dependent on the PP, you can see a difference in philosophy all over the rest of their game. The east/west crap pops its ugly head up more often lately. It was less prevalent months ago. This staff will reign them in. 

 

I think the scars from that Devils series cut a lot of you way too deep. This team just plays different now. It's a different mindset. Different attitude. 

 

Stop overthinking everything.  

Edited December 25, 2023 by The Dude

[Scott]

5 hours ago, Pete said:

It doesn't matter what you think of Chytil. He was the number 2 center and his injury meant Bonino was elevated to a 3rd line role. That would have been true regardless if Chytil was the number two or number three center. 

 

Same thing with Quick. It's like you don't want to give the coaching staff any credit for resurrecting the guy's career. 

 

I'm also pretty tired of hearing "only playoffs matter". If that's the case, then those who feel that way should just stop posting until the playoffs start. You have to go thru the regular season to get to the playoffs.

I gave Lavy credit Pete,  I've also commented in many game threads to just keep stacking the points.  I think Lavy has turned them into a team which is a huge improvement. At the same time they still have some glaring holes. Same ones I think you referred to as smoke and mirrors last season when looking at points collected while being dreadful at 5x5, living off a top PP and outstanding GT.  That package was often referred to as unsustainable.

 

My point about Quick was in reference to pointing out losing our #1 goalie to injury as a hurdle we overcame. Oh and I certainly give Benoit credit for helping to revive his career to date this season. Clearly at times Igor hasn't even been the #1 with both Hank and Vali even pointing out things in his game they didn't like. I think you yourself have had some sold nicknames for Igor in GDT's when things go badly. (Maybe you should just refrain from posting in those losing threads - see that sounds pretty weak/silly). Honestly, I've enjoyed this season greatly so far minus a couple games because both scenarios are possible to me.

 

I'll stick with we all want the same thing and that's for continued improvement across the board especially in some key areas. I believe all of us want every guy putting on a sweater to succeed. Even those whose balls are busted here by a few, most or one or two. It'd be pretty boring if everybody agreed on everything along the way imo and the sarcasm was removed.

 

At the same time I'm too old to die on hills over this kinda thing which is why I keep my comments at a high level and aren't going to go back and forth over and over on any of this stuff. 

 

Cheers.

 

[Sharpshooter]

8 hours ago, The Dude said:

Lmao. Now we are pacing the Rangers season?

 

Can we stop with this nonsense? Last week everyone was shitting on Zibanejad. "Oh, he's not really a 1st line center,  he's only pacing 79 points."  Like 5 days later he's pacing 84.  

 

This team has made big strides all over the ice. Sure, there's glimpses of bad habits from the last 2 years, but the positive totally outweighs the negative.  

 

They have pulled through despite a bunch of injuries.  They're not 100% where they want to be yet. There's guys that have maybe peaked already, while there's guys that are just getting it going or reaching their predicted play. 

 

There will certainly be moves made. That was a given to start the season. But let's not discredit the guys missing from the lineup.  Especially Chytil.

 

The bottom six is a skeleton crew. That's a potential 40+ point forward replaced by a guy that will be lucky to reach 10-15 points (Bonino). Nevermind how Trocheck has upped his production by clicking with Panarin (not really very much lately though).   Kakko stunk and I lost a lot of faith in him, but he certainly leaves more of an imprint than Brodzinski.  

 

On D, I feel like Fox hasn't even been close to being "on" , while Gustafsson was playing great (he's kinda fizzled out compared to his start). Miller is Miller, and Trouba has been pretty solid. 

 

Shesterkin has been average,  but I think he's about to get in his groove. 

 

While this team is still very dependent on the PP, you can see a difference in philosophy all over the rest of their game. The east/west crap pops its ugly head up more often lately. It was less prevalent months ago. This staff will reign them in. 

 

I think the scars from that Devils series cut a lot of you way too deep. This team just plays different now. It's a different mindset. Different attitude. 

 

Stop overthinking everything.  

Bravo. As you said, there are things to improve on. These are the ebbs and flows of the regular season, and why the season matters. They will improve where they need to. So far this has been special and this has been fun. Let's enjoy it!

[Scott]

12 hours ago, The Dude said:

Lmao. Now we are pacing the Rangers season?

 

Can we stop with this nonsense? Last week everyone was shitting on Zibanejad. "Oh, he's not really a 1st line center,  he's only pacing 79 points."  Like 5 days later he's pacing 84.  

 

This team has made big strides all over the ice. Sure, there's glimpses of bad habits from the last 2 years, but the positive totally outweighs the negative.  

 

They have pulled through despite a bunch of injuries.  They're not 100% where they want to be yet. There's guys that have maybe peaked already, while there's guys that are just getting it going or reaching their predicted play. 

 

There will certainly be moves made. That was a given to start the season. But let's not discredit the guys missing from the lineup.  Especially Chytil.

 

The bottom six is a skeleton crew. That's a potential 40+ point forward replaced by a guy that will be lucky to reach 10-15 points (Bonino). Nevermind how Trocheck has upped his production by clicking with Panarin (not really very much lately though).   Kakko stunk and I lost a lot of faith in him, but he certainly leaves more of an imprint than Brodzinski.  

 

On D, I feel like Fox hasn't even been close to being "on" , while Gustafsson was playing great (he's kinda fizzled out compared to his start). Miller is Miller, and Trouba has been pretty solid. 

 

Shesterkin has been average,  but I think he's about to get in his groove. 

 

While this team is still very dependent on the PP, you can see a difference in philosophy all over the rest of their game. The east/west crap pops its ugly head up more often lately. It was less prevalent months ago. This staff will reign them in. 

 

I think the scars from that Devils series cut a lot of you way too deep. This team just plays different now. It's a different mindset. Different attitude. 

 

Stop overthinking everything.  

Not everybody was bashing Zib but some where for sure there was even a dude who started a thread about trading Igor, just wild stuff. The ebb and flow is fascinating here. The comments telling others what to do are rich. 

 

Truly passion and heat of the moment stuff. 

Edited December 25, 2023 by jsrangers

[The Dude]

3 hours ago, jsrangers said:

Not everybody was bashing Zib but some where for sure there was even a dude who started a thread about trading Igor, just wild stuff. The ebb and flow is fascinating here. The comments telling others what to do are rich. 

 

Truly passion and heat of the moment stuff. 

That dude is worried about Igors next contract and even stated that his play wasn't the reason for the post. That dude said it was more for conversation as that dude said the Rangers probably wouldn't survive without him. That dude said all of that in that OP. 

 

The amount of times people get triggered by certain subjects and words is rich. All while they miss other key words in what people say. 

 

The triggered effect is real. 

 

Heck even right here I feel triggered as if you were talking solely about me in your post. 

 

 

[Pete]

10 hours ago, jsrangers said:

I gave Lavy credit Pete,  I've also commented in many game threads to just keep stacking the points.  I think Lavy has turned them into a team which is a huge improvement. At the same time they still have some glaring holes. Same ones I think you referred to as smoke and mirrors last season when looking at points collected while being dreadful at 5x5, living off a top PP and outstanding GT.  That package was often referred to as unsustainable.

 

My point about Quick was in reference to pointing out losing our #1 goalie to injury as a hurdle we overcame. Oh and I certainly give Benoit credit for helping to revive his career to date this season. Clearly at times Igor hasn't even been the #1 with both Hank and Vali even pointing out things in his game they didn't like. I think you yourself have had some sold nicknames for Igor in GDT's when things go badly. (Maybe you should just refrain from posting in those losing threads - see that sounds pretty weak/silly). Honestly, I've enjoyed this season greatly so far minus a couple games because both scenarios are possible to me.

 

I'll stick with we all want the same thing and that's for continued improvement across the board especially in some key areas. I believe all of us want every guy putting on a sweater to succeed. Even those whose balls are busted here by a few, most or one or two. It'd be pretty boring if everybody agreed on everything along the way imo and the sarcasm was removed.

 

At the same time I'm too old to die on hills over this kinda thing which is why I keep my comments at a high level and aren't going to go back and forth over and over on any of this stuff. 

 

Cheers.

 

I get what you're saying, however the major difference is that the team doesn't give up nearly as many high danger chances as they used to at 5v5. They were a sieve in their own zone. Hard to attack when you're always defending. The five on five defense has gotten much better and it will lead to more offense. 

[4EverRangerFrank]

21 hours ago, delneggs said:

In my opinion, after the break they need to improve their effort game in and game out and stop showing up for 20 or 40 minutes some games and play a full hard 60 minute game, every game. They also need to stop being so soft as a team.  Outside of Trouba and Cuylee, nobody has played physical games consistently.  Pitlik does sometimes, goodie, sometimes, Lindy sometimes, but its far to little. Soft hockey won't fly come the playoffs so they better wake up and start hitting someone or trade for a few guys that will.  

Not picking on the

poster just quoting to begin my thoughts…”Our record in 1 goal games is 11-1-1 which is shoot the moon lucky.” 

 

I would agree overall but this year’s team is different. Effort has replaced sheer luck. When tied, even after playing less than stellar hockey, the boys dig deep. We’re winnng games because of the effort more often than not. 
 

@delneggs hit on my thoughts exactly. We were a bit more of a physical team earlier in the season and have gotten away form that ‘identity.’ Yes, it’s a long season and we don’t want guys spent by the end of March. On the other hand a bit of softness has crept into the locker room. That has to stop! Take the body when it’s required. Take the extra stride or two to make or disrupt a play. Definitely don’t let down or take the skate off the gas. 
 

‘Play the right way’ is the mantra of all Cup winning teams. You never hear a post-Cup winning team say that they wished they played harder. 

[Pete]

You only need to throw hits when you don't have the puck. The Rangers have the puck most of the time. That's why they are middle of the pack in hits. 

 

The team who won the Stanley cup last season was also 12th out of 16 teams in hits per 60. The idea that you need to throw hits to be physical or win is just flawed thinking. 

[BrooksBurner]

6 hours ago, Pete said:

I get what you're saying, however the major difference is that the team doesn't give up nearly as many high danger chances as they used to at 5v5. They were a sieve in their own zone. Hard to attack when you're always defending. The five on five defense has gotten much better and it will lead to more offense. 

5v5 HDCA/60 (naturalstattrick)

Under Gallant: 11.94 (21st)

This year: 11.79 (21st)

 

It’s different, but it’s not really, is it? The issue is people saw fool’s gold for the first few weeks, and are now under the illusion it’s been that way most of the year because of the record. PP, goaltending, and a bit of variance in close games as was already covered by @Br4d earlier. That’s the story painted by the stats.

 

This is still the same team. Subject to change.

Edited December 25, 2023 by BrooksBurner

[RangersIn7]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

You only need to throw hits when you don't have the puck. The Rangers have the puck most of the time. That's why they are middle of the pack in hits. 

 

The team who won the Stanley cup last season was also 12th out of 16 teams in hits per 60. The idea that you need to throw hits to be physical or win is just flawed thinking. 

Yup

 

Its great to see your team playing with physicality and sacrificing the body to hit and block shots.

 

But blocked shots and hits occur when you don’t have the puck. 
 

The 2011-12 Rangers led the league in both categories I believe.

Yeah, they were hard to play against. They had a great goalie and played amazing team defense in front of him. They did all the little things. Gave great effort. Bought in to the style they were playing and sacrificed all the time.

But they never had the fucking puck. 

[Sod16]

There are 32 teams, of which 6 or 8 are legitimate contenders.  The Rangers are one of them, meaning they have something along the lines of a 1 in 6 or 8 chance, or perhaps slightly better as they have the most points, or winning the cup.  I worry about PP reliance more than anything else.  Over the 25 games of a cup run, a PP is going to run dry at some point for a while.  If that means losing two straight, that could be it.

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, Sod16 said:

There are 32 teams, of which 6 or 8 are legitimate contenders.  The Rangers are one of them, meaning they have something along the lines of a 1 in 6 or 8 chance, or perhaps slightly better as they have the most points, or winning the cup.  I worry about PP reliance more than anything else.  Over the 25 games of a cup run, a PP is going to run dry at some point for a while.  If that means losing two straight, that could be it.

IDK. The old notion that the refs put the whistle in their pockets for the playoffs,  kinda doesn't ring true these days.

 

Go back and look at the failed NJ series from last season. The refs called a thousand misconducts in game 2. They had plenty of PP chances, but they were mentally brain dead because they wouldn't shoot at the rookie goalie  (who looks like ass this season) and had mostly everyone playing east/west pass happy pussy hockey (You'll notice Panarin wasn't, he was just snake bit) and deferred to Kane, Zibanejad and Panarin for their shots. 

 

I feel like they now play a brand of hockey that can survive in the playoffs.  As long as they can put a strangle hold on that east/west crap, they will indeed be better. 

[Br4d]

One complication is that the best players on the Rangers are east-west players.  Those being Artemi Panarin, Adam Fox, Mika Zibanejad and Chris Kreider (as part of the bromance.)

 

This means that east-west breaks out frequently when the team is under stress and the best players revert to the play style they are most comfortable with.

 

This is kind of exactly what happened in the Devils series last year as the Devils played north-south for most of the series, getting buried by the Rangers PP in games 1 and 2 and burying the Rangers east-west tendencies most of the time after that.

 

There's no reason to believe this won't hold true again this season if the Rangers run into a fast north-south team at any point in their playoff run.  The odds on that are pretty strong.

[Sod16]

1 hour ago, The Dude said:

IDK. The old notion that the refs put the whistle in their pockets for the playoffs,  kinda doesn't ring true these days.

 

Go back and look at the failed NJ series from last season. The refs called a thousand misconducts in game 2. They had plenty of PP chances, but they were mentally brain dead because they wouldn't shoot at the rookie goalie  (who looks like ass this season) and had mostly everyone playing east/west pass happy pussy hockey (You'll notice Panarin wasn't, he was just snake bit) and deferred to Kane, Zibanejad and Panarin for their shots. 

 

I feel like they now play a brand of hockey that can survive in the playoffs.  As long as they can put a strangle hold on that east/west crap, they will indeed be better. 

I don't really subscribe to the old chestnut that refs put their whistles in their pockets during the playoffs.  To the contrary, powerplays in OT, which were once a rarity, are pretty common now.  

 

However, even if a reasonable amount of penalties are being called, if you are overly reliant on the PP and you go cold for a few games, which you probably will over 25 games, it will may mean losing two, or even three, straight.  Being overly reliant on the PP will not keep you from a President's Trophy, because losing two or three straight is not fatal to having the best record over 82 games the way it often is in a best of seven series.

[The Dude]

6 hours ago, Sod16 said:

I don't really subscribe to the old chestnut that refs put their whistles in their pockets during the playoffs.  To the contrary, powerplays in OT, which were once a rarity, are pretty common now.  

 

However, even if a reasonable amount of penalties are being called, if you are overly reliant on the PP and you go cold for a few games, which you probably will over 25 games, it will may mean losing two, or even three, straight.  Being overly reliant on the PP will not keep you from a President's Trophy, because losing two or three straight is not fatal to having the best record over 82 games the way it often is in a best of seven series.

I honestly don't know the numbers.  But is there any proof that cup winning teams weren't just as reliant on the PP?  Are cup winners always winning due to ES goals? 

 

I'm just wondering if the Rangers are truly that different than anyone else when it comes to relying on the PP  come playoff time. It worked for the Rangers 2 years ago.. It should have last season too, but they got spooked by the rookie goalie. 

 

I'm not saying ES production wouldn't help big time. I'm just asking if cup winners did very much ES scoring,  to the point that it is something to constantly harp on.

 

 

 

[The Dude]

7 hours ago, Br4d said:

One complication is that the best players on the Rangers are east-west players.  Those being Artemi Panarin, Adam Fox, Mika Zibanejad and Chris Kreider (as part of the bromance.)

 

This means that east-west breaks out frequently when the team is under stress and the best players revert to the play style they are most comfortable with.

 

This is kind of exactly what happened in the Devils series last year as the Devils played north-south for most of the series, getting buried by the Rangers PP in games 1 and 2 and burying the Rangers east-west tendencies most of the time after that.

 

There's no reason to believe this won't hold true again this season if the Rangers run into a fast north-south team at any point in their playoff run.  The odds on that are pretty strong.

Check back on that series. Watch Panarin. He was playing more north south than anyone. He was getting robbed and was missing big chances.  

 

I don't get why you consistently throw out the work this coaching staff has done. The collapses that cause the mental weakness is gone. This team has fight and it has a system to fall back on. 

 

There is a message being pounded into these players heads. I feel like they have bought in. When things go right, it's due to sticking to the game plan. They have only lost 8 games of 33. That's just 8 games where they likely fell into their old bad habits. It's usually corrected the game after. 

 

There's no reason to believe that they will revert away from the new coaching staffs system come playoff time. Besides not believing that the staff has the team fully on board because the team hasn't gone undefeated and played perfectly every single game. 

 

 

[Br4d]

1 hour ago, The Dude said:

Check back on that series. Watch Panarin. He was playing more north south than anyone. He was getting robbed and was missing big chances.  

 

I don't get why you consistently throw out the work this coaching staff has done. The collapses that cause the mental weakness is gone. This team has fight and it has a system to fall back on. 

 

There is a message being pounded into these players heads. I feel like they have bought in. When things go right, it's due to sticking to the game plan. They have only lost 8 games of 33. That's just 8 games where they likely fell into their old bad habits. It's usually corrected the game after. 

 

There's no reason to believe that they will revert away from the new coaching staffs system come playoff time. Besides not believing that the staff has the team fully on board because the team hasn't gone undefeated and played perfectly every single game. 

 

 

 

11-1-1 in 1 goal games is not good coaching.  It's luck and it is not sustainable.

[siddious]

6 hours ago, Br4d said:

 

11-1-1 in 1 goal games is not good coaching.  It's luck and it is not sustainable.

I’d argue it’s the opposite 

[Pete]

11 minutes ago, siddious said:

I’d argue it’s the opposite 

And you'd be correct. 

[The Dude]

6 hours ago, Br4d said:

 

11-1-1 in 1 goal games is not good coaching.  It's luck and it is not sustainable.

Says you.

This stuff can't be quantified.

This isn't like shooting %. 

 

This is team based play.

This is system.

This is clutch goal tending.

This is defensive scheme.

This is puck possession. 

This isn't something you can gauge, pace or measure.

 

That's what they've done. That's what they're doing. Maybe they never have 1 goal games again.. Maybe every game from here on out is a 1 goal game.

 

How isn't this sustainable when it's not something you guys can predict?  Why CANT they sustain that? Has no other team done it?

 

They've BEEN doing it. If you think the bottom is going to fall out completely, then that's just you being negative.

 

I'm unaware of anything tangible that you can gauge to support the statement.  It's an impressive stat, because they have played impressive hockey. Why do you feel that that is just going to stop?

[Br4d]

The Ducks went 33-1-7 in 1 goal games a few years back.  Then they went 2-0 in 1 goal games in the 1st round and 1-1 in one goal games in the second round and 2-2 in the conference finals and out.

 

The team that beat them in the conference finals went 21-15-6 in 1 goal games that year.  They lost 4 straight by 1 goal going into the playoffs.

 

When they ran into the Mighty Ducks and their 33-1-7?  They were due because given their overall record they had been unlucky in 1 goal games.  The Ducks?  Well they'd used up their luck already with that great regular season run.

Edited December 26, 2023 by Br4d