Tied for the Most Points at Christmas Break

[Cr00zng]

19 hours ago, RangersIn7 said:

Context rules the roost.

 

And rooster(s) change the context, when it comes to impacting the outcome of the game.... 

 

 

[BrooksBurner]

33 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good. I think it's been a little of both with this team so far. If you want to say more luck than being good, you wouldn't be wrong. This is still a good team that could be better in some aspects, for sure.

Yes, this is fair, in particular during the playoffs. There’s a factor of luck in pretty much every playoff run for whoever goes deep. Limiting how much luck is required is important for sustained runs though. I’d rather just be good and win games 3-1, than have to rely on a bounce in double OT.

[RangersIn7]

17 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

Yes, this is fair, in particular during the playoffs. There’s a factor of luck in pretty much every playoff run for whoever goes deep. Limiting how much luck is required is important for sustained runs though. I’d rather just be good and win games 3-1, than have to rely on a bounce in double OT.

All fair.

 

But good teams that are well coached get breaks

 

Luck is the residue of preparation. 

[Ozzy]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

Their PDO suggests they've actually been "unlucky". 

 

Yeah, exactly!!!  I don't know what some of you guys are talking about with "luck".  LOL

 

As far as I'm concerned we've had shitty luck.  We've gotten a ton of bad puck bounces so far, and Will Cuylle would like a word with you guys as to how many points they've pulled off the board for him.

 

Not to mention how many fucking reversed goal call calls and video reviews we HAVEN'T gotten.  Tell me every time they go for a review, you know we're getting fucked, right??  I do!

 

Luck?  I'll believe luck when we get a few breaks that go our way.  We haven't had shit so far! 

[Sharpshooter]

Imagine where they'd be if they actually had some things go their way...and they are tops in the league! They've gotten almost every goal call go in opposite direction, along with probably some others. The key? Overall it's not really affecting them too much. They're finding ways. They battle and compete far more often than they don't.

[Long live the King]

15 hours ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

Do you really think Kakko is the difference between a professional hockey team being 1st vs 23rd in goals against?

 

When you replace Kakko with Brodzinski you lose defensively, and it's not debatable.   Do you really think the current 3rd line is better without him?  I know you don't like to Lavi credit for anything, but the 3rd line was meant to have a clearly defined role.  With Trocheck slotted up and Kakko out, they're unable to play the desired role.  This has a huge impact on the team defensively.  

[RangersIn7]

11 minutes ago, Long live the King said:

 

When you replace Kakko with Brodzinski you lose defensively, and it's not debatable.   Do you really think the current 3rd line is better without him?  I know you don't like to Lavi credit for anything, but the 3rd line was meant to have a clearly defined role.  With Trocheck slotted up and Kakko out, they're unable to play the desired role.  This has a huge impact on the team defensively.  

Kakko got off to a terrible start…. Offensively!

Thats it!

 

He produced basically nothing on the offensive side of his game in 20 games. 
Then he got hurt. 

 

But IMHO, there’s absolutely nothing deficient about any other area of his game.

He defends very well. 
He’s smart and responsible without the puck, especially in the neutral zone where that typically matters most.

He kills penalties well. And while he’s not a burner, he is a better and stronger skater than he gets credit for.

And despite the fact that he hasn’t figured out how to make it pay off for him, we all see the puck possession aspect of his game. 
Him, Zib, and CK had very good possession numbers early. Then they got split, cause NONE of them were scoring, and he’s the least established player of the 3, so he got moved. 

He just needs to figure out how to make his game work offensively. The tools are there for him to be successful in that area. 
 

 

[BrooksBurner]

58 minutes ago, Long live the King said:

 

When you replace Kakko with Brodzinski you lose defensively, and it's not debatable.   Do you really think the current 3rd line is better without him?  I know you don't like to Lavi credit for anything, but the 3rd line was meant to have a clearly defined role.  With Trocheck slotted up and Kakko out, they're unable to play the desired role.  This has a huge impact on the team defensively.  

I would wager there isn’t a single player in the league who makes a 1st to 23rd difference in any team statistic. Let alone Kakko being that guy. There’s an impact, and he’s got quality numbers defensively, but the hyperbole is over the top.

[Long live the King]

23 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

I would wager there isn’t a single player in the league who makes a 1st to 23rd difference in any team statistic. Let alone Kakko being that guy. There’s an impact, and he’s got quality numbers defensively, but the hyperbole is over the top.

 

I never said he was the sole reason.  They also played a handful of shitty games since he's been out.  Main factor is the 3rd line having Bonino and Brodzinski. 

 

I was responding to Kakko being a JAG.  He's not.  He's sorely missed and, while we all want to see him score more, he makes a big impact defensively. 

Edited December 27, 2023 by Long live the King

[Pete]

2 hours ago, Long live the King said:

 

I never said he was the sole reason.  They also played a handful of shitty games since he's been out.  Main factor is the 3rd line having Bonino and Brodzinski. 

 

I was responding to Kakko being a JAG.  He's not.  He's sorely missed and, while we all want to see him score more, he makes a big impact defensively. 

I would agree that it's both Chytil and Kakko being out that contributes to the defensive deficiencies. 

 

Reiterating the point you already made, it forces Boneroo up the lineup, and Tro into the 2nd line, which pretty much gives us two fourth lines and not the matchups that Lavvy wants. He was using the third line in a more shutdown role when Tro was on it.

 

So if it makes people feel better to pull out certain names, let's reframe it as you r now moved 2 significant defensive players off the shutdown line. Tro is now on that second line which never gets deployed in a shutdown scenario, and Bonino and Brodz are now being asked to do more than their capable of. 

 

What we can now safely say is that Brodz mini contribution is in no way an indictment of Kakko. Makes no sense to try and make a point off of a two-point game because you know two points in the next seven is much more likely. 

[BrooksBurner]

53 minutes ago, Pete said:

I would agree that it's both Chytil and Kakko being out that contributes to the defensive deficiencies. 

 

Reiterating the point you already made, it forces Boneroo up the lineup, and Tro into the 2nd line, which pretty much gives us two fourth lines and not the matchups that Lavvy wants. He was using the third line in a more shutdown role when Tro was on it.

 

So if it makes people feel better to pull out certain names, let's reframe it as you r now moved 2 significant defensive players off the shutdown line. Tro is now on that second line which never gets deployed in a shutdown scenario, and Bonino and Brodz are now being asked to do more than their capable of. 

 

What we can now safely say is that Brodz mini contribution is in no way an indictment of Kakko. Makes no sense to try and make a point off of a two-point game because you know two points in the next seven is much more likely. 

No, we can’t. He has 8 points in 13 games getting less TOI than Kakko. Kakko had 3 in 21. If Kakko didn’t get hurt he might still not have 8 pts lol

[Pete]

32 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

No, we can’t. He has 8 points in 13 games getting less TOI than Kakko. Kakko had 3 in 21. If Kakko didn’t get hurt he might still not have 8 pts lol

He's got 2 points in his last 6 games. This is who he is. You tried to make a point and run with it and you were wrong. Same with Kane. Same as you try and make Panarin's entire career about 6 games vs NJ. It's nonsense.

 

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by Pete

[BrooksBurner]

39 minutes ago, Pete said:

He's got 2 points in his last 6 games. This is who he is. You tried to make a point and run with it and you were wrong. Same with Kane. Same as you try and make Panarin's entire career about 6 games vs NJ. It's nonsense.

 

 

 

2 points in 6 games would have been a scorching hot streak for Kakko this year.

 

Are we trying to pull receipts right now when you had Lafreniere traded for a 4th round pick all summer?

[RangersIn7]

Getting back on topic… i.e. Rangers points, place in the standings, etc.

 

If you look where they are in the division, it’s pretty astounding.

 

Personally, under the current and rather shitty system of awarding points… I’ve just always looked at what a team was in relation to .500 in true wins and losses.

 
That is to say… regardless of OT or Shootout losses where you earn the garbage point for losing, how many have you won, and how many have you lost. 
Then you can look inside. But that’s the baseline record and numbers for me. 

As of this moment…

 

Metro Standings

 

1) Rangers are 15 over. 
2) Isles are 2 under. 
3) Flyers are 3 over.

4) Carolina is 1 over.

5) Washington is 3 over

6) Devils are 3 over.

7) Pittsburgh is 1 under.

8- Columbus is 14 under.

 

And they’re doing that while having nearly 80% of their wins coming in regulation.

 
Very impressive thus far.

 

[Pete]

3 hours ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

2 points in 6 games would have been a scorching hot streak for Kakko this year.

 

Are we trying to pull receipts right now when you had Lafreniere traded for a 4th round pick all summer?

Oh wait, let you walk back your hot take by pointing at different receipts... Instead of just accepting that you're wrong. 

 

If we're really going to pull receipts, I'm way ahead of you anyway. Take the L, you're used to it by now. 

Edited December 28, 2023 by Pete

[RangersIn7]

I happen to like Brodz and I think he’s actually gotten a bit of the shaft previously in that he can probably do and give more than his opportunities have indicated he can.

He has been pretty good this time, but really just in spots. Which isn’t to say I don’t like his play, and he’s very high in effort, but while there have been some very good showings, there’s been some very bad ones too.

That aside, and all circumstances considered, he’s still not established himself as anymore than a fringe NHL’er.

 
He’s 30. 
He’s been playing professionally for years and years. And he hasn’t stuck in the NHL. Lack of true opportunities notwithstanding, that isn’t usually an accident.

 

Do I think he’s useful and has value? Yes.

Does he have a fair degree of upside? Yes.

Is his offensive ability undervalued or unexplored some? Yes.

And does he do the right things and possess ability to contribute in a few different ways? Yes.

 

But he’s not very likely, on a full-time basis with a good team, more than a bottom line guy. In reality, he’s probably just a spare forward, albeit a pretty good option as such.

 

Totally comfortable with him in a lesser or limited role. 
But his skill is still fairly limited. 

[The Dude]

10 hours ago, BrooksBurner said:

I would wager there isn’t a single player in the league who makes a 1st to 23rd difference in any team statistic. Let alone Kakko being that guy. There’s an impact, and he’s got quality numbers defensively, but the hyperbole is over the top.

So wait. Underlying numbers only count when you want to use them? 

 

But yeah. No way in hell Kakko is that kind of difference maker. Thus, proving underlying numbers are unreliable nonsense that can be manipulated to drive home a weak point.

 

There's a huge difference in playing philosophy and situational coaching with this team. I don't see how this injury plagued team can be compared to last years healthy and hardly coached, systemless group.

 

 

[RichieNextel305]

It’s 24 wins in 33 games. And it’s not like we’re taking teams to OT or SO to get our 2 points all that often. Our goal differential is at +23, which is best in the East. And for a team that has yet to receive its best play from its superstar goaltender, I’d dare to say that’s fairly impressive 34 games in.

 

In years past, the Rangers would win games with their skill and if that didn’t come to play that night, short of Igor standing on his head, we were in for a fight. Not this year. I don’t care what some fancy stats may or may not say, because my eyeballs are telling me what I need to see with this team. And it’s a team that, even on nights where the special teams or our offense isn’t all too involved, a few goals or bounces can give us all we need because there is structure in place that can carry us home. It’s 60 minutes. Obviously it’s very rare if impossible you’re going to limit even poor teams to 0 good looks or chances in a game. But for the most part, I feel comfortable knowing that when we get a lead and it gets late, that we can push on and also remember to defend. Tonight in the 3rd was a clear cut example of that.

[Sharpshooter]

There's always things to improve on because you're not going to be amazing all year. They're playing a good team game with attention to detail and overall focus I haven't seen consistently from this team in a very long time.

[BrooksBurner]

7 hours ago, The Dude said:

So wait. Underlying numbers only count when you want to use them? 

 

But yeah. No way in hell Kakko is that kind of difference maker. Thus, proving underlying numbers are unreliable nonsense that can be manipulated to drive home a weak point.

 

There's a huge difference in playing philosophy and situational coaching with this team. I don't see how this injury plagued team can be compared to last years healthy and hardly coached, systemless group.

 

 

You can find total team goals for and against on normal standings next to the record. Underlying typically refers to advanced stats.

 

If the Rangers play more games like they did last night against the Caps, the numbers will correct and this conversation will fade away. It’s not that hard of a concept.

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, BrooksBurner said:

You can find total team goals for and against on normal standings next to the record. Underlying typically refers to advanced stats.

 

If the Rangers play more games like they did last night against the Caps, the numbers will correct and this conversation will fade away. It’s not that hard of a concept.

Nah. Because then it becomes. 

 

"There's no way they can sustain scoring 5 goals a game and rely on Shesterkin to be Shesterkin.  Thats a perfect storm and only the 1989 Blackhawks and the 2017 Kings were able to do that. The 92 Capitals did it too but that did it for longer and with shitty Don Beaupre as the goalie,  so that was all just luck for all of them,  especially the Capitals.  Luck, luck, luck, luck, nothing is ever due to coaching and execution.  Ever... Unless it's Chris Knoblauch... or Torts... or someone else I like." 

 

 

[BrooksBurner]

1 minute ago, The Dude said:

Nah. Because then it becomes. 

 

"There's no way they can sustain scoring 5 goals a game and rely on Shesterkin to be Shesterkin.  Thats a perfect storm and only the 1989 Blackhawks and the 2017 Kings were able to do that. The 92 Capitals did it too but that did it for longer and with shitty Don Beaupre as the goalie,  so that was all just luck for all of them,  especially the Capitals.  Luck, luck, luck, luck, nothing is ever due to coaching and execution.  Ever... Unless it's Chris Knoblauch... or Torts... or someone else I like." 

 

 

 

You're so hyperbolic lmao

 

It has nothing to do with scoring 5 goals a game. It has to do with 5v5 performance, controlling play, generating more quality chances than the other team, and limiting quality chances against.

 

High danger chances and expected goals were heavily in the Rangers' favor last night outside of a portion of the 1st where they were a bit slow to start. This backed up the eye test.