What Is Ryan Lindgren's Future as a Ranger?

[Pete]

13 minutes ago, jsm7302 said:

I feel like Kreider is odd man out on these bigger contracts honestly. We have a glut at LW. 

When you think about it logically, yes. Especially if you want to talk about turning a lockerroom around. What's the bigger culture change, shipping out a 25 year old defensman who's been on the team for 4 years or the veteran who's been here forever, just riding out the failures? Why would you ship out a defenseman you have no relacement for, instead of a LW when you are going into the next 10 years (potentially) with Lafreniere, Perrault, Othmann, and Cullye on the left, in addition to guys like Sykora.

[Ozzy]

1 hour ago, LindG1000 said:

 

I'm not so sure of that. 

 

I think Trouba is tailor-made to thrive in a Laviolette system. I see a stacked UFA class that will command less money, but more term than Trouba. I see an 8m cap hit and a 6m salary - that's not enough of a delta to get another team to bite. I also see a rising cap and nearly nobody needing a real payday except Lindgren and (hopefully) Kakko.

 

Short of Trouba basically getting told he's losing control on July 1, so accept what comes....I think he's here through next season. Now, when Miller is due....ask me again.

 

1 hour ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

Right now I'm right there with you pulling for Trouba to get flushed out, but I think we have to see how the year goes.

 

 

You can call me Larry.

 

Ok, I'm cool with Trouba through this season.  I wanna see how everything goes with Laviolette as well.

 

I just think that it may be better to move on from Trouba while he still has value.  The Trouba I saw last season was slightly slower than the one I saw when he got here.  Maybe Coaching, maybe just him slowing down over the years as a physical player.

 

I'm into "let's see what he's got this year", but I'm looking at it with a little squinty eye this season.  I'm thinking/hoping we could do better in play and value with another player similar to a Gudas-type, that's younger/tougher/faster/better value.

 

But not to get away from the main point.  Lindgren=STAPLE in NY on D

[jsm7302]

 

 

I'm not getting rid of this .....hits like this, "the helmet throw", etc.....emotion on the ice is something that hasn't always been a strong suit of this franchise in the recent past. Trouba as the captain is something I wanna see continue.

 

To get back on track. Lindgren is a heart and soul guy; a warrior. You can't overpay him into his break down years but he should definitely be paid his worth, 3.5-4ish mil. That covers the mil per ten points plus his defensive prowess with the other half of the sum.

[Pete]

13 minutes ago, jsm7302 said:

 

 

I'm not getting rid of this .....hits like this, "the helmet throw", etc.....emotion on the ice is something that hasn't always been a strong suit of this franchise in the recent past. Trouba as the captain is something I wanna see continue.

 

To get back on track. Lindgren is a heart and soul guy; a warrior. You can't overpay him into his break down years but he should definitely be paid his worth, 3.5-4ish mil. That covers the mil per ten points plus his defensive prowess with the other half of the sum.

I know you wanted to get back to Lindgren, but this applies to Trouba, too. You can't pay a guy $8M because he hits. The helmet throw was a media creation. They still lost that game, and almost lost the next one to STL.

[RJWantsTheCup]

Lindgren’s injury this season was from a questionable hit by Oshie not from his style of play 

[jsm7302]

37 minutes ago, Pete said:

I know you wanted to get back to Lindgren, but this applies to Trouba, too. You can't pay a guy $8M because he hits. The helmet throw was a media creation. They still lost that game, and almost lost the next one to STL.

It's certainly a fair point but for arguments sake, paying 5-6 mil to replace him plus the retention needed to make a trade most likely; we aren't getting out from under that 8 mil salary even if the name on the back of the jersey changes for less $$.

 

Keep the known leader with the passion at an organizationally shallow position and say good bye to CK20 for the cost savings.

 

Troobs contract is ugly but I think we are stuck with 8 mil at that position no matter what now because of it.

Edited August 11, 2023 by jsm7302

[Phil]

57 minutes ago, jsm7302 said:

 

 

I'm not getting rid of this .....hits like this, "the helmet throw", etc.....emotion on the ice is something that hasn't always been a strong suit of this franchise in the recent past. Trouba as the captain is something I wanna see continue.

 

To get back on track. Lindgren is a heart and soul guy; a warrior. You can't overpay him into his break down years but he should definitely be paid his worth, 3.5-4ish mil. That covers the mil per ten points plus his defensive prowess with the other half of the sum.

 

I agree with your sentiment re: Trouba, but you can't justify an $8 million AAV for this.

 

Also, the idea that Lindgren is worth less than $4 million per year on any deal, let alone a long-term one, just isn't realistic. He's getting Mikey Anderson's deal, minimum, but probably closer to the deals signed by Pelech and Cernak.

[Phil]

7 minutes ago, jsm7302 said:

It's certainly a fair point but for arguments sake, paying 5-6 mil to replace him plus the retention needed to make a trade most likely; we aren't getting out from under that 8 mil salary even if the name on the back of the jersey changes for less $$.

 

Keep the known leader with the passion at an organizationally shallow position and say good bye to CK20 for the cost savings.

 

Troobs contract is ugly but I think we are stuck with 8 mil at that position no matter what now because of it.

 

This is probably truer, and I think it's entirely valid to note that in spite of their AAVs, what Trouba brings is truly unique. We've literally watched how just one hit from him can change the entire trajectory of a playoff series. If he delivered that hit on Meier in game three instead, who knows?

[The Dude]

3 hours ago, jsm7302 said:

 

 

I'm not getting rid of this .....hits like this, "the helmet throw", etc.....emotion on the ice is something that hasn't always been a strong suit of this franchise in the recent past. Trouba as the captain is something I wanna see continue.

 

To get back on track. Lindgren is a heart and soul guy; a warrior. You can't overpay him into his break down years but he should definitely be paid his worth, 3.5-4ish mil. That covers the mil per ten points plus his defensive prowess with the other half of the sum.

 

 

We all shit on Trouba a bit too much.  People talk about him like he's 35 and broken down.  He's going to turn 30 this season. 

 

Somehow he's the only player that doesn't get the benefit of the poor coaching excuse. I'm expecting Laviolette to really like Trouba and unlock some more of what made him an attractive get before he came here. Lets see what he does under a new system before we keep pushing him to the Gulag. 

 

If the cap goes up as much as it's expected, I'm not sure Troubas (bad) 8 milll cap hit is as much of a problem as people think.  

[Ozzy]

7 hours ago, The Dude said:

 

 

We all shit on Trouba a bit too much.  People talk about him like he's 35 and broken down.  He's going to turn 30 this season. 

 

Somehow he's the only player that doesn't get the benefit of the poor coaching excuse. I'm expecting Laviolette to really like Trouba and unlock some more of what made him an attractive get before he came here. Lets see what he does under a new system before we keep pushing him to the Gulag. 

 

If the cap goes up as much as it's expected, I'm not sure Troubas (bad) 8 milll cap hit is as much of a problem as people think.  

 

Dude man, the only reason I don't give him a pass is the contract.  Absolutely nothing to do with him as a player.  His contract is a detriment to the team for the short term in my eyes.  I don't know what the cap is going to increase to, but right now I see him as a block to keep a guy like K' or Lindgren for the future.

 

I see Trouba as a 2nd or 3rd pair defenseman at this point, and he's simply overpaid in that instance as far as I'm concerned.  He's a solid D man, but it just keeps coming back to his contract with me.

 

I just can't see cutting guys loose like K' or Lindgren because of Trouba's deal....I mean, we'll see how he does under Laviolette, and I'm hoping he flourishes, but I would much rather be able to keep those younger guys a lot longer.

[RJWantsTheCup]

According to blades of steel.com Trouba is the most feared hitter in the NHL. 

[Br4d]

Trouba is almost unique in the NHL today.  Not only does he hit hard but he avoids excess penalties while doing it.  That's not easy to find these days. 

 

Even if the Rangers found a young center ice enforcer as good as Trouba odds are pretty good he'd be a whistle-drawer because truth be told the NHL would like to get away from the play style completely.

 

If he's still going strong in 3 years the Rangers will want to sign him to a more workable contract, a prospect that might well depend on where his wife is working at the moment.  For a young doctor there are few places better than the Tri-state area to join a practice.

[RangersIn7]

Trouba is untradeable until late in the 2nd to last year of his deal. Maybe even until his final year. 

[Pete]

You have to hope Trouba reverts to last-season-Winnipeg form under Laviolette. At his ticket, I'll take less hits and more points.

[Br4d]

The Rangers don't want for offense from their defense.  I'd much rather Trouba stayed at home in front of the net more often given his partner wanders at will.

[Pete]

9 minutes ago, Br4d said:

The Rangers don't want for offense from their defense.  I'd much rather Trouba stayed at home in front of the net more often given his partner wanders at will.

Pretty much the opposite of what is being reported on what Laviolette wants. Curious as to how you came to that conclusion, though.

 

His partner wanders because Trouba himself is constantly out of position.

Edited August 12, 2023 by Pete

[Br4d]

5 minutes ago, Pete said:

Pretty much the opposite of what is being reported on what Laviolette wants. Curious as to how you came to that conclusion, though.

 

His partner wanders because Trouba himself is constantly out of position.

 

Miller wanders because he doesn't have the instincts of a true defenseman yet.  He is in the corners way more often than he should be and he starts the breakout prematurely at times.

 

When Trouba is not in position it is because he went behind the net or was slow to get back.

 

 

[Pete]

33 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

Miller wanders because he doesn't have the instincts of a true defenseman yet.  He is in the corners way more often than he should be and he starts the breakout prematurely at times.

 

When Trouba is not in position it is because he went behind the net or was slow to get back.

 

 

I believe both are true. A vet defenseman won't leave his position because someone else blew coverage.

 

An all too frequent occurrence is Trouba loses his man below the goal line, Miller wanders over to help, Trouba then has to rotate back into the area Miller left and can't get there fast enough.

 

Miller needs to cover his own check and let Trouba handle his own problems.

[The Dude]

On 8/12/2023 at 12:39 AM, Ozzy said:

 

Dude man, the only reason I don't give him a pass is the contract.  Absolutely nothing to do with him as a player.  His contract is a detriment to the team for the short term in my eyes.  I don't know what the cap is going to increase to, but right now I see him as a block to keep a guy like K' or Lindgren for the future.

 

I see Trouba as a 2nd or 3rd pair defenseman at this point, and he's simply overpaid in that instance as far as I'm concerned.  He's a solid D man, but it just keeps coming back to his contract with me.

 

I just can't see cutting guys loose like K' or Lindgren because of Trouba's deal....I mean, we'll see how he does under Laviolette, and I'm hoping he flourishes, but I would much rather be able to keep those younger guys a lot longer.

I don't think he affects either of them as far as their next contracts go. There's only 2 more seasons on his deal after this coming season.  It lines up perfectly with Miller's next deal

 

Miller just re-upped for 2 years.

 

Lindgren can be afforded his raise next summer with the cap going up at least 8-10 million. 

 

I think Kakko, Schneider and Lindgren will be the only major free agents at the end of this coming season. I think they are fine.

 

The issue will be Shesterkin and I really don't want to give him his next contract as he will rightfully demand 8-10 million. I just don't want to pay a goalie top goalie money again.  If he's cool with 7 maybe 8. I'm in. I doubt that's the case. Even still.  It's close if they had to give him 9-10. 

 

With that said-

 

Lindgren gets a 1.5-2 mill raise. Kakko (barring a major break out season), slides into Lindgrens cap hit territory (3-3.5)  and Schneider maybe gets like 2.5. 

 

You're gaining 8-10 million in cap space with the league wide bump up. You're really only spending 4-5 mill of that 8-10 that will be added on. I don't even know if any buyouts are coming off the books. 

 

If they had to keep Trouba through the term.  It's not that bad. It affects nothing, unless Kakko and Schneider have amazing breakout seasons this year. And such a thing happening will be a good thing.  Eat some salary on Trouba or Kreider and you're set. 

 

The escalating cap is going to set things up as not so bad at all for the Rangers and many other teams. 

 

Goalie may be the Rangers issue when it comes time. 

 

I may be missing something,  but that how I'm looking at it.  

[The Dude]

On 8/12/2023 at 8:56 AM, Br4d said:

Trouba is almost unique in the NHL today.  Not only does he hit hard but he avoids excess penalties while doing it.  That's not easy to find these days. 

 

Even if the Rangers found a young center ice enforcer as good as Trouba odds are pretty good he'd be a whistle-drawer because truth be told the NHL would like to get away from the play style completely.

 

If he's still going strong in 3 years the Rangers will want to sign him to a more workable contract, a prospect that might well depend on where his wife is working at the moment.  For a young doctor there are few places better than the Tri-state area to join a practice.

Agree with some, except for bringing him back at all after this contract.  Schneider is the future.  No need for a 33/34 year old Trouba on the 3rd pair.

 

In typical Ranger fashion,  if they brought him back, they would force him into that 2nd pairing role anyway. 

[RangersIn7]

8 hours ago, The Dude said:

Agree with some, except for bringing him back at all after this contract.  Schneider is the future.  No need for a 33/34 year old Trouba on the 3rd pair.

 

In typical Ranger fashion,  if they brought him back, they would force him into that 2nd pairing role anyway. 

Trouba’s fate in terms of living out his contract here is very much contingent upon the success of the team and his play. 
 

If they’re winning and he’s playing well, given that he’s their Captain, he’ll be around.

 

[The Dude]

2 hours ago, RangersIn7 said:

Trouba’s fate in terms of living out his contract here is very much contingent upon the success of the team and his play. 
 

If they’re winning and he’s playing well, given that he’s their Captain, he’ll be around.

 

Meh. I could say Drury didn't sign him and likely doesn't have much attachment to him. BUT, he has brought in quite a few of Troubas buds over the years. Copp, Vatrano and now Wheeler.  He also brought in Panarins buds too in Tarasenko and Kane.  

 

IDK. Unless Trouba would sign for a super team friendly deal,  I don't think the Rangers really want to keep him around past his current deal or even through it. He's gotta really turn it around to even think about bringing him back. I'm talking 40-50 points and hard hitting solid D.  I'm hoping it's possible. I'm thinking we'll get 30-40 points and ok hard hitting, solid D. Which is an improvement.  

[RJWantsTheCup]

The only way I see Trouba getting  50 points or more with the Rangers is if Fox gets hurt and he gets PP1 minutes.   In which case we are is serious trouble. 

[BrooksBurner]

13 hours ago, RJWantsTheCup said:

The only way I see Trouba getting  50 points or more with the Rangers is if Fox gets hurt and he gets PP1 minutes.   In which case we are is serious trouble. 

 

Looking for points out of Trouba is a fool's errand. They shouldn't be trying to artificially inflate his point totals just to make his contract look good. He's clunky with the puck on his stick and he's very clearly not a PP QB. The best thing he can do for the team is focus on doing everything else at a high level. Nobody would care if he's a bit overpaid as a defensive defenseman if he was a shutdown option like Slavvin. Trouba is very much of an example of a player who you do want to focus on simplifying his game, because he doesn't have the puck skills to be more than what he is.

[LindG1000]

]

14 hours ago, The Dude said:

Meh. I could say Drury didn't sign him and likely doesn't have much attachment to him. BUT, he has brought in quite a few of Troubas buds over the years. Copp, Vatrano and now Wheeler.  He also brought in Panarins buds too in Tarasenko and Kane.  

 

IDK. Unless Trouba would sign for a super team friendly deal,  I don't think the Rangers really want to keep him around past his current deal or even through it. He's gotta really turn it around to even think about bringing him back. I'm talking 40-50 points and hard hitting solid D.  I'm hoping it's possible. I'm thinking we'll get 30-40 points and ok hard hitting, solid D. Which is an improvement.  

 

I think it's worth putting a pin in trading Trouba for a bit because there's a few significant changes at play here.

 

1 - Laviolette is a far more technical coach than Gallant. He insists on a system that probably benefits Trouba more than any other defender on the team.

2 - We don't have a huge payday coming for anyone in the coming two years. Barring Kakko going completely off, the next big raise is for Miller.

3 - Next years UFA situation is going to be even weirder than this summer. There will be a cap increase, but there's also more UFAs than usual. More people fighting for less of the pie (not to mention that a number of teams have already spent that cap increase)

 

So you have a player that stands to benefit from a coaching change, no rush to move money from internal pressure, and you're probably getting your needs met in UFA for less than expected. He's got two years, imo. All bets are off when the caps gone up 14% in two years, he's got a year left, and Miller needs the cash.

 

Hell, I'll circle the date - Jacob Trouba gets dealt at the 2025 Entry Draft at the absolute earliest.