Walker Rangers’ Pride Night About-Face Created Same Mess it Tried to Avoid

[Keirik]

22 minutes ago, The Dude said:

How?

 

Its something the organization has been doing for a long time.  Dolan is most definitely a jerk off, but I don’t see how what you  brought to the table here can be considered tangible evidence.  There's no correlation between the facts that you brought up and this situation.  

 

I'm not even saying it's not possible it came from Dolan.  I'm just saying your evidence isn't evidence that can be thought of as being connected to this instance. 

 

There's no evidence of Dolan being behind this,  just as much as there's no evidence that it can't be a new player. Let's not be so matter of factly here, because obviously this is a mystery at the moment. 

 

 

 The new players on the team for the most part probably have previously participated in pride nights in the past.  Most of the NHL does yearly pride nights. This isn’t anything new.  Vesey, Halak, and Trocheck all have in the past year by a quick look. The other two barely are NHLers so less game logs to see them play in so who knows. Add in the info by Brooks saying that two players both stated that they didn’t know what exactly happen and there’s enough there to at least say that it’s unlikely to be from a players stance. 

[BrooksBurner]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

It's only false advertising and bait and switch if there was intent. There was no intent to deceive anyone, circumstances changed.

 

I'd also love to grab the folks who claimed to have bought the ticket for a specific reason and see what time their tickets were scanned. Because if someone is telling me they shelled out MSG prices specifically for that event, I would say

 

I dunno. False advertising might be somewhat of a legitimate gripe, albeit small. A fan might have wanted to buy tickets to go to a game regardless, but ponied up to pay a premium for Friday night tickets for the event.

 

On the other hand, sometimes athletes don’t play for a rest day or what not and they are used a lot more in advertising to drive ticket sales than 10 minutes of rainbow tape and jersey lettering.

Edited January 31, 2023 by BrooksBurner

[The Dude]

6 minutes ago, Keirik said:

 The new players on the team for the most part probably have previously participated in pride nights in the past.  Most of the NHL does yearly pride nights. This isn’t anything new.  Vesey, Halak, and Trocheck all have in the past year by a quick look. The other two barely are NHLers so less game logs to see them play in so who knows. Add in the info by Brooks saying that two players both stated that they didn’t know what exactly happen and there’s enough there to at least say that it’s unlikely to be from a players stance. 

Meh.

 

If we go by @Phils presumption,  that someone pulled the plug on the jerseys thing, in fear of there being a Provorov like backlash/situation, there would have to be a situation with a player. 

 

I can't point to Dolans recent short comings and say without doubt that he is most definitely behind it, when he and the organization has a history of being supportive of that community.  I think his conduct on the matter in the past, should hold more weight than you are giving him. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dunny]

I landed on Dolan, as well.

 

As I understand it, they still did all the extra curriculars, just no jerseys. I'm generally with Pete on this.. who actually would go to see them in pride jerseys? How many could it be? A dozen?

 

To those few I'd say, I've shelled out hundreds of dollars to see them sit Mike Richter and play Guy Hebert or Kirk McLean. Thems the breaks.

 

I'd also have to pin some of the blame on the forever adolescents that are obsessed with jerseys. This is partially on you, and supports my adult wearing jersey thesis from a couple months ago.

[Keirik]

34 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Meh.

 

If we go by @Phils presumption,  that someone pulled the plug on the jerseys thing, in fear of there being a Provorov like backlash/situation, there would have to be a situation with a player. 

 

I can't point to Dolans recent short comings and say without doubt that he is most definitely behind it, when he and the organization has a history of being supportive of that community.  I think his conduct on the matter in the past, should hold more weight than you are giving him. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hard to agree with anything there really but I guess we all will read into it as we see fit. I agree a bit more with the idea that it wasn’t anyone on the team and lies more likely along the lines of an owner with a history of making rash, unilateral decisions based on arbitrary rules and logic made up on the fly. 
 

 

 There is also this little snippet of Dolan recently banning Tony Simone from attending Pride Night after he criticized Dolans facial recognition technology.

 

Quote

Simone was one of several local pols who hit MSG at a Sunday press conference over its use of facial recognition software to eject lawyers from the Garden and Radio City Music Hall who work for firms tied to litigation against the company. 

The freshman legislator said the situation turned ironic when an MSG representative called him to say they didn’t “feel it would be the appropriate time” for Simone, the first LGBTQ person elected to rep the district, to attend the NHL-sponsored “Hockey is for Everyone” event.

https://nypost.com/2023/01/17/nys-legislator-says-james-dolan-pulled-msg-invite-after-criticism-of-face-tech-use/

[Jdog99]

One of the lawyers suing dolan is gay?

[BrooksBurner]

I bet it was Trouba and his $8M cap hit saying he wasn’t going to wear a jersey. We should trade him. Take a stand for the LGBTQ community.

[Keirik]

1 minute ago, BrooksBurner said:

I bet it was Trouba and his $8M cap hit saying he wasn’t going to wear a jersey. We should trade him. Take a stand for the LGBTQ community.

Funny enough, I was thinking this too. If it’s a player please god let it be Trouba. Damn Jacob, listen we want to help. Where do you want to be traded to? 

[Valriera]

To be honest simply not doing it anymore, after leading the way for a decade, is the most progressive thing you actually can do.

 

Yes hockey is for everyone, yes that’s an indisputable fact, and no there’s no more need for shit like rainbow jerseys to make everyone feel welcomed to the sport.

 

but let’s be honest this was probably Dolan 22-23

[siddious]

22 minutes ago, Keirik said:

Funny enough, I was thinking this too. If it’s a player please god let it be Trouba. Damn Jacob, listen we want to help. Where do you want to be traded to? 

To be on the safe side we should just send him to Philly anyway

[mbob]

 

I don’t like my team getting this focus but admit as one who is bombarded at work with this stuff it truly alienates anyone that doesn’t follow their party line.  They constantly create uncomfortable situations from role playing training, forced diversity inclusion goals on my reviews,  d&i spotlight in the team meeting monthly, so much so it starts to push you in the wrong direction.  So I hope if a few players were uncomfortable the decision was made at the top to scrap it for all. I totally could see my company sponsoring a mandatory employee event where we could be forced to wear something rainbow and I’d be put in the wrong focus with my decision so I like the call to do their event honoring its intended purpose but let the players just go to work. 
 

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by mbob

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Dunny said:

I landed on Dolan, as well.

 

As I understand it, they still did all the extra curriculars, just no jerseys. I'm generally with Pete on this.. who actually would go to see them in pride jerseys? How many could it be? A dozen?

 

To those few I'd say, I've shelled out hundreds of dollars to see them sit Mike Richter and play Guy Hebert or Kirk McLean. Thems the breaks.

 

I'd also have to pin some of the blame on the forever adolescents that are obsessed with jerseys. This is partially on you, and supports my adult wearing jersey thesis from a couple months ago.

 

Oh in person? Yeah, edge cases, absolutely. The backlash lives overwhelmingly on Twitter and through a shared sense of outrage among journalists... who use Twitter to help drive click traffic.

 

I don't think this compares to players, though, unless you're getting emails saying "Come see Igor Shesterkin play this weekend against the Flyers!" and then he doesn't. And even then, it's still kinda apples and oranges. This is a very specific marketing effort that's targeted at groups. Players aren't. Even if they use a specific one in an advert. They're just basically saying "this guy plays here, come see him live," which literally every other team on planet earth does. Not every other team specifically looks to auction off special jerseys.

 

Actually, the best case scenario might be the jerseys off our back thing they did, or if the team did something really similar where they promised to auction off say game-worn jerseys, then just didn't, and didn't say shit about it.

[Phil]

1 hour ago, mbob said:

 

I don’t like my team getting this focus but admit as one who is bombarded at work with this stuff it truly alienates anyone that doesn’t follow their party line.  They constantly create uncomfortable situations from role playing training, forced diversity inclusion goals on my reviews,  d&i spotlight in the team meeting monthly, so much so it starts to push you in the wrong direction.  So I hope if a few players were uncomfortable the decision was made at the top to scrap it for all. I totally could see my company sponsoring a mandatory employee event where we could be forced to wear something rainbow and I’d be put in the wrong focus with my decision so I like the call to do their event honoring its intended purpose but let the players just go to work. 

 

This is all fine. The problem is they're likely half pregnant on this, and they're just going to turn around and wear special jerseys in warmups for Law Enforcement Appreciation Night later in February. I think they already did Military Appreciation Night, or I'd have mentioned that, too.

 

That's the problem with this kind of corporate-backed endorsement of social causes. It's really, really hard to do them consistently without angering anyone who disagrees with whatever political ideology is associated with it on any given night. Pride night is overwhelmingly liberal, I'd venture to say, while LEO or MAN would likely lean conservative.

 

Maybe just don't do these silly appreciation nights at all if this is such an issue?

[mbob]

3 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

3 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Maybe just don't do these silly appreciation nights at all if this is such an issue?

100%

[Richter35]

3 minutes ago, Phil said:

Maybe just don't do these silly appreciation nights at all if this is such an issue?

Quote

YES ! Just play hockey. This is all virtue signalling. No need to do any of it.

 

[jsm7302]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

 

This is all fine. The problem is they're likely half pregnant on this, and they're just going to turn around and wear special jerseys in warmups for Law Enforcement Appreciation Night later in February. I think they already did Military Appreciation Night, or I'd have mentioned that, too.

 

That's the problem with this kind of corporate-backed endorsement of social causes. It's really, really hard to do them consistently without angering anyone who disagrees with whatever political ideology is associated with it on any given night. Pride night is overwhelmingly liberal, I'd venture to say, while LEO or MAN would likely lean conservative.

 

Maybe just don't do these silly appreciation nights at all if this is such an issue?

I wouldn't consider LEO or MAN social causes; they are both government agencies put in place for the safety and well being of the countries citizens. The appreciation nights for these specific entites are a positive reflection imo. Supporting controversial social causes could make some uncomfortable where the former really has no political leaning or standing.

 

Supporting Police isn't a popular thing like it was post 9/11 unfortunately however I think the recognition for societies watchdogs should be appreciated by athletes, actors, bankers, cashier's and custodians. Without those who hold the structure of society to a standard, society would collapse and this goes for military on an international scale and Police nationally.

[Scott]

Holy shit gimmie my time back please after watching just a few mins of that video. 

 

The last thing we need is someone now to source a video from the left to bore everyone to tears in retaliation. 

 

Again I think the biggest issue is if they were never in to begin with that's fine then I would agree it's nothing but crying and grandstanding . But that's not the case. Frankly to me it doesn't even matter the "cause" behind the special advertised fund raising jersey is. Be it Vets, First Responders etc, the fact they bailed at the last minute is the spineless part. Let's see how they play out whatever "cause" jersey is up next, I think @Philsaid it's towards the end of Feb. 

 

They should probably bail on all of them because you're always at risk of pissing off some on the other side. 

 

 

[Blue Heaven]

Next one is Black History Night vs Vancouver next week. 
They also have Women’s Empowerment Night and Law Enforcement Night 

[Pete]

10 hours ago, mbob said:

 

I don’t like my team getting this focus but admit as one who is bombarded at work with this stuff it truly alienates anyone that doesn’t follow their party line.  They constantly create uncomfortable situations from role playing training, forced diversity inclusion goals on my reviews,  d&i spotlight in the team meeting monthly, so much so it starts to push you in the wrong direction.  So I hope if a few players were uncomfortable the decision was made at the top to scrap it for all. I totally could see my company sponsoring a mandatory employee event where we could be forced to wear something rainbow and I’d be put in the wrong focus with my decision so I like the call to do their event honoring its intended purpose but let the players just go to work. 
 

 

 

9 hours ago, Phil said:

 

This is all fine. The problem is they're likely half pregnant on this, and they're just going to turn around and wear special jerseys in warmups for Law Enforcement Appreciation Night later in February. I think they already did Military Appreciation Night, or I'd have mentioned that, too.

 

That's the problem with this kind of corporate-backed endorsement of social causes. It's really, really hard to do them consistently without angering anyone who disagrees with whatever political ideology is associated with it on any given night. Pride night is overwhelmingly liberal, I'd venture to say, while LEO or MAN would likely lean conservative.

 

Maybe just don't do these silly appreciation nights at all if this is such an issue?

I couldn't even get through the video because the whole opening set of remarks is just based on the hockey version of Tucker Carlson not understanding cultura trends. 

 

Future generations are trending towards non-binary to the point where in a few years only half the US population will identify specifically as man or woman exclusively. If you're not talking to the next generation of lgbtq+, you're just not going to have a fan base in 20 to 30 years.

 

That said, figure out the right way to talk to those groups. Shirts and tape do precious little.

 

And frankly the people complaining over shirts and tape are whining just for the sake of whining. Like I said before that's not what acceptance is. And forcing players to do it is even one generation further away from acceptance. 

 

The best way to do pride night was to keep the programming that they have and invite fans to come as they are. You want to get glitter and glam, feel free to do that. If you want to wear a rainbow jersey of your own purchasing, former players will be available to autograph it. If a player feels like they want to autograph a rainbow jersey, let them do it and auction it off.

 

It's not any one thing that's the issue here it's the culmination of everything... It's the forced performative nonsense that's a cheap tactic that doesn't move the needle, it's forcing players into doing it, and then it's cow-towing to the vocal minority of whiny little bitches. 

 

That's the trifecta of the super woke, the super conservative, and the super marketing machine. It's almost too much to bear. 

 

[BrooksBurner]

10 hours ago, Phil said:

 

This is all fine. The problem is they're likely half pregnant on this, and they're just going to turn around and wear special jerseys in warmups for Law Enforcement Appreciation Night later in February. I think they already did Military Appreciation Night, or I'd have mentioned that, too.

 

That's the problem with this kind of corporate-backed endorsement of social causes. It's really, really hard to do them consistently without angering anyone who disagrees with whatever political ideology is associated with it on any given night. Pride night is overwhelmingly liberal, I'd venture to say, while LEO or MAN would likely lean conservative.

 

Maybe just don't do these silly appreciation nights at all if this is such an issue?

Those appreciation nights are for workers who, for the most part, put their lives on the line for the community/country though. The LGBTQ group does not. They are just people who live their lives and exist like the rest of us. That is not to minimize that it did not used to be that way, where they could simply exist like they can today.

[mbob]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

 

I couldn't even get through the video because the whole opening set of remarks is just based on the hockey version of Tucker Carlson not understanding cultura trends. 

 

Future generations are trending towards non-binary to the point where in a few years only half the US population will identify specifically as man or woman exclusively. If you're not talking to the next generation of lgbtq+, you're just not going to have a fan base in 20 to 30 years.

 

That said, figure out the right way to talk to those groups. Shirts and tape do precious little.

 

And frankly the people complaining over shirts and tape are whining just for the sake of whining. Like I said before that's not what acceptance is. And forcing players to do it is even one generation further away from acceptance. 

 

The best way to do pride night was to keep the programming that they have and invite fans to come as they are. You want to get glitter and glam, feel free to do that. If you want to wear a rainbow jersey of your own purchasing, former players will be available to autograph it. If a player feels like they want to autograph a rainbow jersey, let them do it and auction it off.

 

It's not any one thing that's the issue here it's the culmination of everything... It's the forced performative nonsense that's a cheap tactic that doesn't move the needle, it's forcing players into doing it, and then it's cow-towing to the vocal minority of whiny little bitches. 

 

That's the trifecta of the super woke, the super conservative, and the super marketing machine. It's almost too much to bear. 

 

 

The video was only an example of the spotlight I don’t want for my team.  

[Pete]

7 minutes ago, mbob said:

 

The video was only an example of the spotlight I don’t want for my team.  

Oh I hear you. I quoted you not so much for the content of your post which I can understand, I quoted you just to grab the video itself. 

[Pete]

31 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

Those appreciation nights are for workers who, for the most part, put their lives on the line for the community/country though. The LGBTQ group does not. They are just people who live their lives and exist like the rest of us. That is not to minimize that it did not used to be that way, where they could simply exist like they can today.

And if plans shifted as they did in this case, and the team didn't wear the jerseys, or tape their stick camouflage, again we're talking about big needle movers here... Would law enforcement officers or military personnel start saying that they don't feel welcome at NHL games anymore?

 

The entire thing is farcical. 

[mbob]

16 minutes ago, Pete said:

And if plans shifted as they did in this case, and the team didn't wear the jerseys, or tape their stick camouflage, again we're talking about big needle movers here... Would law enforcement officers or military personnel start saying that they don't feel welcome at NHL games anymore?

 

The entire thing is farcical. 

Not to derail the thread but the gov pays big dollars to the professional leagues for their propaganda, especially the NFL.  Nothing is organic any more 

[Phil]

11 hours ago, jsm7302 said:

I wouldn't consider LEO or MAN social causes; they are both government agencies put in place for the safety and well being of the countries citizens. The appreciation nights for these specific entites are a positive reflection imo. Supporting controversial social causes could make some uncomfortable where the former really has no political leaning or standing.

 

Supporting Police isn't a popular thing like it was post 9/11 unfortunately however I think the recognition for societies watchdogs should be appreciated by athletes, actors, bankers, cashier's and custodians. Without those who hold the structure of society to a standard, society would collapse and this goes for military on an international scale and Police nationally.

 

They're less expressly social causes, but they share the same or similar connective tissue to ideology, which is my point. Especially on the marketing side, where the Rangers/MSG are keenly aware that each of these events are designed to target very specific groups of people. They push ticket sales for these events, and those sales are expressly pointed at the groups/ideologies that would closely align with them.

 

As I mentioned before, Pride night, or Women's Empowerment Night, are going to attract, or are designed to attract, a more liberal, younger audience. LEO or MAN nights are going to attract, or are designed to attract, a more conservative, older audience.

 

11 hours ago, jsrangers said:

Holy shit gimmie my time back please after watching just a few mins of that video. 

 

The last thing we need is someone now to source a video from the left to bore everyone to tears in retaliation. 

 

Again I think the biggest issue is if they were never in to begin with that's fine then I would agree it's nothing but crying and grandstanding . But that's not the case. Frankly to me it doesn't even matter the "cause" behind the special advertised fund raising jersey is. Be it Vets, First Responders etc, the fact they bailed at the last minute is the spineless part. Let's see how they play out whatever "cause" jersey is up next, I think @Philsaid it's towards the end of Feb. 

 

They should probably bail on all of them because you're always at risk of pissing off some on the other side.

 

I should clarify: when I talk about being half pregnant, it's not to say that you can't do Appreciation Nights if you aren't going to do them for everyone. I'm saying that you shouldn't do Appreciation Nights if you're going to arbitrarily pull the rug out from under one but possibly not another, because it makes the ones that don't get interfered with feel preferential.

 

When I said maybe they should just not do these, it's specifically because they have a tempestuous man-child of an owner who's prone to fits of personal grievance-fueled rage. Not because I don't think there's any value to doing these types of events, or because I have any dog in this fight. I actually think all of these ventures do very little to move the needle on their associated causes. They're more for branding awareness with a touch of virtue signaling. The real work is often far less heralded, like the donations they make to charities. For my money, the best charity/social cause of the year is Garden of Dreams night.