Walker Rangers’ Pride Night About-Face Created Same Mess it Tried to Avoid

[Phil]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

 

I couldn't even get through the video because the whole opening set of remarks is just based on the hockey version of Tucker Carlson not understanding cultura trends. 

 

Future generations are trending towards non-binary to the point where in a few years only half the US population will identify specifically as man or woman exclusively. If you're not talking to the next generation of lgbtq+, you're just not going to have a fan base in 20 to 30 years.

 

That said, figure out the right way to talk to those groups. Shirts and tape do precious little.

 

And frankly the people complaining over shirts and tape are whining just for the sake of whining. Like I said before that's not what acceptance is. And forcing players to do it is even one generation further away from acceptance. 

 

The best way to do pride night was to keep the programming that they have and invite fans to come as they are. You want to get glitter and glam, feel free to do that. If you want to wear a rainbow jersey of your own purchasing, former players will be available to autograph it. If a player feels like they want to autograph a rainbow jersey, let them do it and auction it off.

 

It's not any one thing that's the issue here it's the culmination of everything... It's the forced performative nonsense that's a cheap tactic that doesn't move the needle, it's forcing players into doing it, and then it's cow-towing to the vocal minority of whiny little bitches. 

 

That's the trifecta of the super woke, the super conservative, and the super marketing machine. It's almost too much to bear.

 

I wasn't responding to the video. I was only responding to @mbob. I didn't even watch it, to be honest.

 

I agree with everything else you said, though. In a lot of ways, they will probably benefit from not having worn these, because it could force more meaningful change on this whole front by getting them away from "what they always do," which, as you said, is just performative and cheap.

[Blue Heaven]

NYI Pride Night is Feb. 9th, lets see what happens there.

Devils have Gender Equality Night on March 9th.

 

Can't find anything about those teams wearing special jerseys

[jsm7302]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

 

They're less expressly social causes, but they share the same or similar connective tissue to ideology, which is my point. Especially on the marketing side, where the Rangers/MSG are keenly aware that each of these events are designed to target very specific groups of people. They push ticket sales for these events, and those sales are expressly pointed at the groups/ideologies that would closely align with them.

 

As I mentioned before, Pride night, or Women's Empowerment Night, are going to attract, or are designed to attract, a more liberal, younger audience. LEO or MAN nights are going to attract, or are designed to attract, a more conservative, older audience.

 

 

I should clarify: when I talk about being half pregnant, it's not to say that you can't do Appreciation Nights if you aren't going to do them for everyone. I'm saying that you shouldn't do Appreciation Nights if you're going to arbitrarily pull the rug out from under one but possibly not another, because it makes the ones that don't get interfered with feel preferential.

 

When I said maybe they should just not do these, it's specifically because they have a tempestuous man-child of an owner who's prone to fits of personal grievance-fueled rage. Not because I don't think there's any value to doing these types of events, or because I have any dog in this fight. I actually think all of these ventures do very little to move the needle on their associated causes. They're more for branding awareness with a touch of virtue signaling. The real work is often far less heralded, like the donations they make to charities. For my money, the best charity/social cause of the year is Garden of Dreams night.

I think they went awry by not following through with what they said they were going to do. Like they needed the spotlight from Philly. So wierd for NY of all places not to take part in this specific night. NY is the melting pot of the country and you would think they would do these nights without further thoughts. It's the market, if you don't want to participate then sign somewhere else. 

 

I supported the choice not to wear the jersey in Philly but in all reality, EVERYONE SHOULD STOP GRANDSTANDING. Love for one, love for all. Live free!

[Pete]

1 hour ago, jsm7302 said:

NY is the melting pot of the country and you would think they would do these nights without further thoughts

NY is the melting pot and I would bet my savings account that of the 18K at the Garden on any given Rangers game night, probably 8K identify as LGBTQ.

Edited January 31, 2023 by Pete

[jsm7302]

17 minutes ago, Pete said:

NY is the melting pot and I would bet my savings account that of the 18K at the Garden on any given Rangers game night, probably 8K identify as LGBTQ.

I'll be at the next game surveying in hopes of capitalizing on your savings account.

[Richter35]

Even with NYS having a reported 7.9% LGBTQ identity , that would mean about 2200 fans out of 18K. That assumes the general population of hockey fans are represented equally . I would bet not.

[Pete]

20 minutes ago, Richter35 said:

Even with NYS having a reported 7.9% LGBTQ identity , that would mean about 2200 fans out of 18K. That assumes the general population of hockey fans are represented equally . I would bet not.

That's NYS and not NYC.

 

That's also those who are honest about how they identify.

[Richter35]

You honestly think the Garden has 8k people a night that identify as LGBTQ ? If thats the case , then why the need for a night to promote the league as LGBTQ friendly ? It would seem pretty well accepted if almost half of your audience is LGBTQ.

[Pete]

2 minutes ago, Richter35 said:

You honestly think the Garden has 8k people a night that identify as LGBTQ ? If thats the case , then why the need for a night to promote the league as LGBTQ friendly ? It would seem pretty well accepted if almost half of your audience is LGBTQ.

Well, that's the point LOL. I don't think anyone living in NYC as a gay person thinks they're unwelcome at a hockey game.

 

Columbus? Dallas? Nashville? Might have some other feelings.

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

NY is the melting pot and I would bet my savings account that of the 18K at the Garden on any given Rangers game night, probably 8K identify as LGBTQ.

 

That feels high given there's around 800,000 LGBTQ-identifying persons living in the NYC metro area, but you could be right given rising trend of those identifying as nonbinary in the country.

 

[RangersIn7]

Just don’t know how they botched this.

Especially with the additional attention in it due to the circumstances in Philly.

 

 

[LindG1000]

9 hours ago, Pete said:

 

I couldn't even get through the video because the whole opening set of remarks is just based on the hockey version of Tucker Carlson not understanding cultura trends. 

 

Future generations are trending towards non-binary to the point where in a few years only half the US population will identify specifically as man or woman exclusively. If you're not talking to the next generation of lgbtq+, you're just not going to have a fan base in 20 to 30 years.

 

That said, figure out the right way to talk to those groups. Shirts and tape do precious little.

 

And frankly the people complaining over shirts and tape are whining just for the sake of whining. Like I said before that's not what acceptance is. And forcing players to do it is even one generation further away from acceptance. 

 

The best way to do pride night was to keep the programming that they have and invite fans to come as they are. You want to get glitter and glam, feel free to do that. If you want to wear a rainbow jersey of your own purchasing, former players will be available to autograph it. If a player feels like they want to autograph a rainbow jersey, let them do it and auction it off.

 

It's not any one thing that's the issue here it's the culmination of everything... It's the forced performative nonsense that's a cheap tactic that doesn't move the needle, it's forcing players into doing it, and then it's cow-towing to the vocal minority of whiny little bitches. 

 

That's the trifecta of the super woke, the super conservative, and the super marketing machine. It's almost too much to bear. 

 

 

I don't disagree at all with what you're saying in total. You're largely bang on here, but it's worth calling out that there is some level of research trying to either confirm or deny the impact of (insert name) nights. The early returns do suggest that these events create exposure, and exposure tends to have a rather strong net positive impact on how outsiders feel about the community. It's at least a little unfair to say that these nights are without impact, even though they may be somewhat cookie-cutter.

[Pete]

1 minute ago, LindG1000 said:

 

I don't disagree at all with what you're saying in total. You're largely bang on here, but it's worth calling out that there is some level of research trying to either confirm or deny the impact of (insert name) nights. The early returns do suggest that these events create exposure, and exposure tends to have a rather strong net positive impact on how outsiders feel about the community. It's at least a little unfair to say that these nights are without impact, even though they may be somewhat cookie-cutter.

I would need to see the research. As I said, they might make an impact in cities other than NY, BOS, Bay area, etc.

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

 

That feels high given there's around 800,000 LGBTQ-identifying persons living in the NYC metro area, but you could be right given rising trend of those identifying as nonbinary in the country.

 

And how many of them aren't self identifying?

[LindG1000]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

I would need to see the research. As I said, they might make an impact in cities other than NY, BOS, Bay area, etc.

Yeah, that's probably true. NYC itself likely hasn't got need of this - I seriously doubt that anyone feels unwelcome at MSG or in NYC at all unless they're suing James Dolan. I think there's a greater cultural context (I'm big on "stick to sports" being an absolutely fucking buillshit stance) that MSG, NYC, etc really matter on a grander scale, but writ large, nobody who is buying a ticket to see a game at MSG is likely to feel like they don't belong on the 40 other game nights.

[The Dude]

Maybe it's time to move this to the political section. 

[Keirik]

7 hours ago, Blue Heaven said:

NYI Pride Night is Feb. 9th, lets see what happens there.

Devils have Gender Equality Night on March 9th.

 

Can't find anything about those teams wearing special jerseys

Devils definitely did in the past. 

[Phil]

3 hours ago, The Dude said:

Maybe it's time to move this to the political section. 

 

No, it's still team-related.

[Phil]

Quote

Burke said wearing a Pride-themed jersey is a broad symbolic gesture to say: “You’re welcome here.”

 

“The part that troubles me is, this fragmentation is dangerous,” said Burke. “For someone to say, ‘Well, I’m an Orthodox Christian, I’m not wearing a Pride sweater.’ Well, I don’t see how one has anything to do with the other.

 

“We want to say, ‘Everyone is welcome here.’ And that’s the risk here: The fragmentation, the distraction, losing sight of the message.”

 

Quote

“I’m clearly and visibly annoyed by this, but I do think the New York Rangers endorse and embrace Pride,” he said. “Whether they’ve got individual players who sidetracked it or not, I do believe the Rangers are part of the solution here.”

He named Rangers general manager Chris Drury and captain Jacob Trouba as part of that solution.

 

“Our players support this,” he said. “I know that. I don’t think a couple of distractions are going to derail the movement, which is all I care about.”

 

[Pete]

2 hours ago, Phil said:

 

 

The idea that you need to accept a certain lifestyle, and not only accept it but be forced into endorsing it, is everything that's wrong with the woke movement.

 

I don't need to accept or endorse anyone's lifestyle, all I need to do is not interfere with it and mind my own business.

 

That's what the players are doing. 

[Puck Head]

On 1/31/2023 at 10:32 AM, Pete said:

NY is the melting pot and I would bet my savings account that of the 18K at the Garden on any given Rangers game night, probably 8K identify as LGBTQ.

I’d guess something closer to 500-1000

 

5% of US population identifies as LGBYT 

7% of NY population identified as LGBYT

 

That would average to around 1300 per game, but hockey isn’t exactly the most common bonding moment for LGBYT

[Pete]

7 minutes ago, Puck Head said:

I’d guess something closer to 500-1000

 

5% of US population identifies as LGBYT 

7% of NY population identified as LGBYT

 

That would average to around 1300 per game, but hockey isn’t exactly the most common bonding moment for LGBYT

NYS≠NYC

 

You're also counting people who are out. I feel good about my estimate.

[SaveByRichter35]

I would say to stop doing all of these nights all together and just.  Play.  Hockey.  But that won't happen because these nights are nothing but a money grab.  With that being said, just continue to do all of these celebration nights the way they did this particular night.  Light the Garden up in whatever corresponding colors.  Have your banners on the scoreboards and let the PA announcer address the fans in attendance.  Give out whatever gimmick they're going to give out to said fans in attendance.  Talk about it on the tv broadcast.  Just leave the players out of it.  Drop the jerseys that get worn for 10 minutes, drop the stick tape.  Let the players autograph jerseys at a predetermined time to be auctioned off for whatever cause of the night.  Let the players just.  Play.  Hockey.

[Phil]

42 minutes ago, SaveByRichter35 said:

I would say to stop doing all of these nights all together and just.  Play.  Hockey.  But that won't happen because these nights are nothing but a money grab.  With that being said, just continue to do all of these celebration nights the way they did this particular night.  Light the Garden up in whatever corresponding colors.  Have your banners on the scoreboards and let the PA announcer address the fans in attendance.  Give out whatever gimmick they're going to give out to said fans in attendance.  Talk about it on the tv broadcast.  Just leave the players out of it.  Drop the jerseys that get worn for 10 minutes, drop the stick tape.  Let the players autograph jerseys at a predetermined time to be auctioned off for whatever cause of the night.  Let the players just.  Play.  Hockey.

 

This is actually not a half bad idea if teams are truly getting scared off the practice due to Provorov, and now this most recent example with the Rangers.

 

It allows teams to continue with monthly corporate cause adoption, make whatever donations they want, invite any special guests, etc, without ever having to put a specific player or players into an uncomfortable situation, should they object.

[goondman]

I kinda get the feeling there was some grumbling in the locker room and Dolan caught wind....