Trochek Is Surprisingly Much Different Than Strome Was

[Phil]

2 hours ago, Jdog99 said:

I think Trochek is a much better player than Stromer...on 'another level'. Just wondering if there are any objective stats/results on the go forward that would prove that out in your eyes.

 

I don't want to speak for @Pete, but this feels like a shifting of the burden of proof to me. I'd ask you, if you're the one saying you believe that Trocheck is on "another level," what does that actually mean? Especially if the players end up as closely matched in production as they have throughout their careers thus far?

 

Put another way, I can't define what's in your head. You have to give me the framework so I know how to react to it.

[jsm7302]

34 minutes ago, Pete said:

Well both players career stat lines are pretty similar, especially when you take into account the teams they both played on. So there is no evidence to support your claim.

 

And at the end of the day it really doesn't matter. If it makes you feel better to make that claim then go right ahead. 

I think when it comes to the eye test; I can understand the statement. Not that I necessarily agree with it but Trochek doesn't mind banging and tends to shoot the puck more and just appears more engaged due to a bit more tenacity. Another level? Maybe not but possibly a better explanation of the initial comment.

 

When it comes to stat line; there are multiple ways to get the same stats, some are net front presences and others play on the perimeter.

 

All in all, we rolled the dice and won thus far. I appreciated Stromer and what he did here and now I appreciate what Trochek is doing. Hope he is a part of climbing the hill at the end of the season.

[Pete]

Just now, jsm7302 said:

I think when it comes to the eye test; I can understand the statement. Not that I necessarily agree with it but Trochek doesn't mind banging and tends to shoot the puck more and just appears more engaged due to a bit more tenacity. Another level? Maybe not but possibly a better explanation of the initial comment.

 

When it comes to stat line; there are multiple ways to get the same stats, some are net front presences and others play on the perimeter.

 

All in all, we rolled the dice and won thus far. I appreciated Stromer and what he did here and now I appreciate what Trochek is doing. Hope he is a part of climbing the hill at the end of the season.

I completely agree that they have different styles and that Vinny is what they need more of, and yes Strome is not a guy who's taking the puck to the middle.

 

I'm not unhappy with the swap. I just don't think you need to shit on guys on the way out, especially with comments that aren't supported by any metric. "He shoots more!"  Pretty much the same shot total last year. "At least he hits the net!"  Missed the net more than Strome. " "Better defensively!" Using what metric? Certainly not +/-.

 

Why do we have to tear down the guy who just left in order to raise up the guy who's here now? Why can't we just raise up the guy who's here now while still pointing out the different styles?

 

I mean the title of the thread does a great job of it, I don't know why the posters can't follow suit. 

[Jdog99]

Just now, Phil said:

 

I don't want to speak for @Pete, but this feels like a shifting of the burden of proof to me. I'd ask you, if you're the one saying you believe that Trocheck is on "another level," what does that actually mean? Especially if the players end up as closely matched in production as they have throughout their careers thus far?

 

im fine if we just boil it down to production...goals/assists/total points. and from what i've seen thus far, i'd be pretty comfortable betting that Trocheck will produce significantly more. i'll predict he basically keeps his current pace for the full season for at least 70+ points.

[Scott]

I liked Strome I like what I've seen from Tro. Their stats to date are similar. Let's see if Tro's productivity takes a big step forward benefiting playing with Panarin. If so I think there would become a sizeable gap between the two over time. Strome already had that benefit and while Tro has played on good teams I think there's potentially more of a direct benefit playing on a line and PP with Bread.

 

For now however I think all that can be said definitively is that it's TBD.

[Phil]

3 minutes ago, Jdog99 said:

 

im fine if we just boil it down to production...goals/assists/total points. and from what i've seen thus far, i'd be pretty comfortable betting that Trocheck will produce significantly more. i'll predict he basically keeps his current pace for the full season for at least 70+ points.

 

Strome produced at an average of 0.73 P/GP as a Ranger. That's 60 points per season over 82 games. But he averaged 0.85 P/GP in the final two of his three years here. That's 70 points per season over 82 games.

 

I don't see how Trocheck putting up 70 points is "significantly more" considering it's literally in line with what Strome did his last two seasons. So unless we're looking at a point per game here, I just don't agree with your framing.

[jsm7302]

Just now, Phil said:

 

Strome produced at an average of 0.73 P/GP as a Ranger. That's 60 points per season over 82 games. But he averaged 0.85 P/GP in the final two of his three years here. That's 70 points per season over 82 games.

 

I don't see how Trocheck putting up 70 points is "significantly more" considering it's literally in line with what Strome did his last two seasons. So unless we're looking at a point per game here, I just don't agree with your framing.

[RJWantsTheCup]

I think the biggest difference in Trocheck and Strome is on faceoffs.

It's most apparent on the power play when we win the faceoff instead of losing and wasting the first 25-30 seconds bringing the puck back up ice into the offensive zone.

[Jdog99]

4 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Strome produced at an average of 0.73 P/GP as a Ranger. That's 60 points per season over 82 games. But he averaged 0.85 P/GP in the final two of his three years here. That's 70 points per season over 82 games.

 

I don't see how Trocheck putting up 70 points is "significantly more" considering it's literally in line with what Strome did his last two seasons. So unless we're looking at a point per game here, I just don't agree with your framing.

 

well lets put pace aside for actual gross production. Strome has never broke 60 points here. If Tro stays healthy and puts up 70+, I'm counting that as a significant upgrade.

 

But even moreso - lets tack on playoffs and see how that plays out. Strome's production was abysmal last run. If Tro duplicates his playoff performance here or exceeds it, I'm booking him as a SIGNIFICANT upgrade, no ifs ands or buts.

[Pete]

Strome was hurt last playoff. 

 

I'm still confused as to why we even need to have this debate, that one player is better than the other.

 

It's probably fair to say the team is better on the whole with Vinny, but that doesn't make one player better than the other. 

[jsm7302]

31 minutes ago, Jdog99 said:

 

well lets put pace aside for actual gross production. Strome has never broke 60 points here. If Tro stays healthy and puts up 70+, I'm counting that as a significant upgrade.

 

But even moreso - lets tack on playoffs and see how that plays out. Strome's production was abysmal last run. If Tro duplicates his playoff performance here or exceeds it, I'm booking him as a SIGNIFICANT upgrade, no ifs ands or buts.

 

12 minutes ago, Pete said:

Strome was hurt last playoff. 

 

I'm still confused as to why we even need to have this debate, that one player is better than the other.

 

It's probably fair to say the team is better on the whole with Vinny, but that doesn't make one player better than the other. 

It is kind of odd that you are both right yet still at odds.

[Phil]

58 minutes ago, Jdog99 said:

well lets put pace aside for actual gross production. Strome has never broke 60 points here. If Tro stays healthy and puts up 70+, I'm counting that as a significant upgrade.

 

But even moreso - lets tack on playoffs and see how that plays out. Strome's production was abysmal last run. If Tro duplicates his playoff performance here or exceeds it, I'm booking him as a SIGNIFICANT upgrade, no ifs ands or buts.

 

OK, then let's look at gross production. Strome scored 141 points in 189 games. Trocheck has scored nine points in 10 games so far.

 

The simplest, most straight forward comparison? Let's talk when Trocheck hits 189 games and see where he is.

 

But I'm good with playoffs being the real barometer. I'd argue it's far more important, and likely weighed heavily in the decision. Trocheck was arguably the most important player on Carolina's roster last year.

[Jdog99]

51 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

OK, then let's look at gross production. Strome scored 141 points in 189 games. Trocheck has scored nine points in 10 games so far.

 

The simplest, most straight forward comparison? Let's talk when Trocheck hits 189 games and see where he is.

 

But I'm good with playoffs being the real barometer. I'd argue it's far more important, and likely weighed heavily in the decision. Trocheck was arguably the most important player on Carolina's roster last year.

 

lets not get carried away here...I think we can at least start to make an informed judgement after a full season (rather than 189 games)...and certainly if a playoff run gets included

[Long live the King]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

Strome was hurt last playoff. 

 

I'm still confused as to why we even need to have this debate, that one player is better than the other.

 

It's probably fair to say the team is better on the whole with Vinny, but that doesn't make one player better than the other. 

 

At the same time, if one player is better than the other, making that statement isn't shitting on the not as good player.

[RichieNextel305]

Different styles for sure. Strome had the vision. Trocheck is more in the mold of a shooter who can bury the puck in front. I think the real difference will come playoff time. We have a lot of perimeter players and a lot of pass-first guys. Trocheck is the kind of guy who isn’t afraid to get a little dirty in front to score a goal. We have fewer of those guys than we did players like Strome.

[BrooksBurner]

My money is on Trocheck netting 30 goals and 80 points on Panarin’s line.
 

The real comparison right now, since we don’t have nearly enough “Trocheck with Panarin” data, is Strome’s years w/o Panarin versus Trocheck without Panarin during those same years. I don’t even have to run those numbers to know what they’ll look like (incredibly lopsided in Trocheck’s favor) because I know half of Strome’s output came with Panarin. But Trocheck also got gobs of ice time most of his playing career and Strome did not, so then you have to resort to “per 60” which might be a little closer.

In my view, there’s a reason Trocheck got ice time even without the luxury of attaching to a guy like Panarin, while Strome did not. The eye test in Trocheck’s favor has shocked me. I really didn’t expect it.

Edited November 1, 2022 by rmc51

[Keirik]

So far both have played 12 games.

 

Strome

 

12 games

3g 5a for 8p, 1 pp goal
19:00 TOI

45.3 f/o %

8 hits

 

Trocheck

12 games

4g 5a 9p, 2pp goals, 1 pp assist

21:14 TOI

55.3 f/o %

42 hits

 

   Just giving a quick rundown thus far. Production wise they are very similar. Obviously faceoffs and hitting is where the biggest difference is.  625k salary difference and Trocheck has two years longer of a deal. Full NMC up front and modified NTC starting 25/26. Interesting enough Strome has no clauses in his deal. 

[Long live the King]

5 minutes ago, Keirik said:

So far both have played 12 games.

 

Strome

 

12 games

3g 5a for 8p, 1 pp goal
19:00 TOI

45.3 f/o %

8 hits

 

Trocheck

12 games

4g 5a 9p, 2pp goals, 1 pp assist

21:14 TOI

55.3 f/o %

42 hits

 

   Just giving a quick rundown thus far. Production wise they are very similar. Obviously faceoffs and hitting is where the biggest difference is.  625k salary difference and Trocheck has two years longer of a deal. Full NMC up front and modified NTC starting 25/26. Interesting enough Strome has no clauses in his deal. 

 

Regular season doesn't really matter.  I know Strome was hurt last year, but the faceoffs and physical play of Trocheck are gonna be a lot more important come playoff time.

[Keirik]

1 minute ago, Long live the King said:

 

Regular season doesn't really matter.  I know Strome was hurt last year, but the faceoffs and physical play of Trocheck are gonna be a lot more important come playoff time.

I dont disagree but both really are pretty similar playoff stats. The faceoffs, hitting, and hopefully dragging bread into the fight more will be tlhe hopeful differences. 

[lefty9]

On 11/6/2022 at 12:59 PM, Keirik said:

So far both have played 12 games.

 

Strome

 

12 games

3g 5a for 8p, 1 pp goal
19:00 TOI

45.3 f/o %

8 hits

 

Trocheck

12 games

4g 5a 9p, 2pp goals, 1 pp assist

21:14 TOI

55.3 f/o %

42 hits

 

   Just giving a quick rundown thus far. Production wise they are very similar. Obviously faceoffs and hitting is where the biggest difference is.  625k salary difference and Trocheck has two years longer of a deal. Full NMC up front and modified NTC starting 25/26. Interesting enough Strome has no clauses in his deal. 

Offensively they both good players ,but Vinny brings gritt and is very good on face offs something the rangers needs,so I think Vinny is better fit here 

[Kevin]

1 hour ago, lefty9 said:

Offensively they both good players ,but Vinny brings gritt and is very good on face offs something the rangers needs,so I think Vinny is better fit here 

The more necessary fit due to the roster being constructed of a lot of guys like Strome.  Trocheck is noticeably different.