Greatest NYR Reclamation Project?

[The Dude]

4 hours ago, Sod16 said:

This thread seems to be getting bogged down with the definition of a reclamation project.  I certainly do not think it would include Adam Graves, a young player who was not highly touted and had not had much impact in the NHL who then reached new heights with the Rangers.  In my mind, it's someone who has had significant success in the NHL, regressed substantially, and then recovered with the Rangers.  I stand by Poddubny and Ogrodnick as the best examples.

 

Let's NOT do a thread on FAILED reclamation projects.  There have been too too many, and that goes to show that these projects are low percentage propositions.

Meh. Reclamation, scrap heap. Whatever you want to call it

 

I'd say taking a former first rounder (Graves was a 22nd overall) that hadn't done anything in his first 5 seasons...    and making him into a franchise icon on another team, IMO is more of a success story/ reclamation than getting a vet (Ogrodnick) who had mild success as a scorer and having him pretty much continue that trend here. 

 

From nothing to legend or even a serviceable player, isn't what we're talking about?

 

 

[The Dude]

3 hours ago, Valriera said:

It’s he’s to argue against strome but I think it’s zibanejad. Ottawa is not parting ways with Mika for someone like brassard if Mika is performing up to expectations. He’s turned into an elite 1c in the league. 

Good call. The Rangers definitely got a heck of a lot more out of Zibanejad than it looked like the Sens were going to get out of him. 

[Pete]

Disagree on Zib. He had steady incremental growth. Ottawa just lost patience. 

[RichieNextel305]

Ottawa thought Brassard brought more “now” to the table than Zibanejad did. And I mean, they did beat us and Brassard did score a big goal in Game 5 to tie it late and then Turris beat us. They almost upset Pittsburgh on that one-off miracle run.

 

But man, did they sacrifice an awful lot. I remember not wanting to trade Brassard at the time, and word came out that they did trade him, I was initially mad. Then I saw it was for Zibanejad and I remember thinking: “Shit, he’s pretty damn good and he’s young.”

 

We fleeced them there. Mika has turned into an elite level star in this league.

[Albatrosss]

Eric Lindros 

[siddious]

9 hours ago, RichieNextel305 said:

Ottawa thought Brassard brought more “now” to the table than Zibanejad did. And I mean, they did beat us and Brassard did score a big goal in Game 5 to tie it late and then Turris beat us. They almost upset Pittsburgh on that one-off miracle run.

 

But man, did they sacrifice an awful lot. I remember not wanting to trade Brassard at the time, and word came out that they did trade him, I was initially mad. Then I saw it was for Zibanejad and I remember thinking: “Shit, he’s pretty damn good and he’s young.”

 

We fleeced them there. Mika has turned into an elite level star in this league.

Same I remember being upset then rationalizing that we basically got a younger brassard. I think their stats were similar too at that point (possibly based on age). Man did brassard fall off after that though. Talk about a well timed trade.

[Sod16]

1 hour ago, siddious said:

Same I remember being upset then rationalizing that we basically got a younger brassard. I think their stats were similar too at that point (possibly based on age). Man did brassard fall off after that though. Talk about a well timed trade.

I think just about everyone on this board, and everyone in the hockey world, thought it was a good trade for the Rangers when it was made.  

[siddious]

21 minutes ago, Sod16 said:

I think just about everyone on this board, and everyone in the hockey world, thought it was a good trade for the Rangers when it was made.  

After the initial reaction subsided, yeah. A lot of people really liked brassard too though. 

[Valriera]

It was a solid hockey trade for both teams but let’s not kid ourselves: zibanejad has dramatically over performed what anyone thought he could do there. Maybe doesn’t qualify is reclamation though I don’t know. Sort of like if we ship chytil and he turns into something a little less good 

[Br4d]

Definitely Graves.  Went from two-time disappointment to the guy who threw his stick up in the air at the horn in '94.

Edited August 3, 2022 by Br4d

[Keirik]

3 hours ago, Br4d said:

Definitely Graves.  Went from two-time disappointment to the guy who threw his stick up in the air at the horn in '94.

Very hard to consider Graves considering g he was only 23 when he joined the Rangers. He also was a 2nd round pick so it wasn’t as if he was some flop high draft pick that the Rangers turned around. 

[The Dude]

4 hours ago, Br4d said:

Definitely Graves.  Went from two-time disappointment to the guy who threw his stick up in the air at the horn in '94.

Exactly. From role player that Edmonton didn't want to Ranger legend and short lived Rangers season high goal scorer until Jagr broke the record years later. 

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Keirik said:

Very hard to consider Graves considering g he was only 23 when he joined the Rangers. He also was a 2nd round pick so it wasn’t as if he was some flop high draft pick that the Rangers turned around. 

Agreed.

 

He goes in the Zib pile of "previous teams weren't patient, despite the evidence of production".

[Albatrosss]

Eric Lindros 

[The Dude]

20 hours ago, Pete said:

Agreed.

 

He goes in the Zib pile of "previous teams weren't patient, despite the evidence of production".

Ok..... But......   Aren't you kinda ready to write off Chytil and Kakko after 3 and 4 (short) years of similar numbers Graves was putting up?

 

Production?

 

If that's production, why are you so hard on Chytil and Kakko?  Kakko I can understand due to draft position, but shortened seasons and injuries have a hand in his lack of progression. 

 

Im just a little mixed up on how the wording applies here. 

[josh]

Age. He was still too young to be considered a reclamation project. 
 

case closed. 

[The Dude]

19 minutes ago, josh said:

Age. He was still too young to be considered a reclamation project. 
 

case closed. 

Kakko is being pushed out the door. He's 21.  Chytil will be 23 in September. Fans want them gone. Tgey have better numbers than Graves did after 4 years in the league.

 

Graves was 23/24.. 

 

Case, very open.  Just by comparison of how people here feel about current Ranger players that are younger and have produced similar if not better numbers, yet want to kick to the curb...

 

If Kakko gets dealt or signs a low level offer sheet (like Graves did) with like.... SJ, and all of a sudden pots 26 goals, is he NOT  a reclamation project for them? 

 

Graves was in the league 4 years. Too young? Nah. 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by The Dude

[Long live the King]

27 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Kakko is being pushed out the door. He's 21.  Chytil will be 23 in September. Fans want them gone. Tgey have better numbers than Graves did after 4 years in the league.

 

Graves was 23/24.. 

 

Case, very open.  Just by comparison of how people here feel about current Ranger players that are younger and have produced similar if not better numbers, yet want to kick to the curb...

 

If Kakko gets dealt or signs a low level offer sheet (like Graves did) with like.... SJ, and all of a sudden pots 26 goals, is he NOT  a reclamation project for them? 

 

Graves was in the league 4 years. Too young? Nah. 

 

 

 

 

 

That doesn't make any of them reclamation projects.

 

Reclamation project =/= kid in need of a change of scenery 

[BrooksBurner]

Graves’ age and track record was closer to being a Gauthier if Gauthier hypothetically broke out now

[josh]

44 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Kakko is being pushed out the door. He's 21.  Chytil will be 23 in September. Fans want them gone. Tgey have better numbers than Graves did after 4 years in the league.

 

Graves was 23/24.. 

 

Case, very open.  Just by comparison of how people here feel about current Ranger players that are younger and have produced similar if not better numbers, yet want to kick to the curb...

 

If Kakko gets dealt or signs a low level offer sheet (like Graves did) with like.... SJ, and all of a sudden pots 26 goals, is he NOT  a reclamation project for them? 

 

Graves was in the league 4 years. Too young? Nah. 

 

 

 

 

You’re not wrong with your ideas and suggestions. But they don’t fall in this category. 
 

It was mentioned earlier in the thread there was more discussion on definition, and this is one of those cases 

[Pete]

1 hour ago, The Dude said:

Ok..... But......   Aren't you kinda ready to write off Chytil and Kakko after 3 and 4 (short) years of similar numbers Graves was putting up?

 

Production?

 

If that's production, why are you so hard on Chytil and Kakko?  Kakko I can understand due to draft position, but shortened seasons and injuries have a hand in his lack of progression. 

 

Im just a little mixed up on how the wording applies here. 

OK... And? Maybe they'll be another team's reclamation project?

 

Also there doesn't seem to be evidence via production that Chytil and Kakko will be anything.

 

Also, Graves is a second round pick, which makes a huge difference. There's a large leap between a number two overall and a second round picks expectations. 

[Br4d]

Graves made Kakko look like Guy Lafleur by comparison.

[Lord Al]

Roddy Piper’s childhood friend Cam Connor 

[The Dude]

33 minutes ago, Pete said:

OK... And? Maybe they'll be another team's reclamation project?

 

Also there doesn't seem to be evidence via production that Chytil and Kakko will be anything.

 

Also, Graves is a second round pick, which makes a huge difference. There's a large leap between a number two overall and a second round picks expectations. 

? So a 2nd round pick is nothing and Detroit and Edmonton didn't even want Graves at all? I don't understand how Graves in Josh's terms is too young and too productive to be considered a reclamation, and I believe you agreed.... But you're ready to ditch two higher drafted players,  who are younger and just as productive if not more.. but would agree that they would be another team's reclamation.. 

 

I don't understand how Graves draft status takes him out of the conversation. 

 

The Rangers took a 4th year player that barely anyone knew about and turned him into a Ranger legend. Someone had hopes for Graves as he made it to the NHL for 2 teams prior. 

 

Which is it? Too young, too productive or not drafted high enough?  The guidelines are all over the place in your standards to act so matter of factly. 

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, josh said:

You’re not wrong with your ideas and suggestions. But they don’t fall in this category. 
 

It was mentioned earlier in the thread there was more discussion on definition, and this is one of those cases 

But.....  2 team's prior.  4 years in the league.... LOL. It's a fit for the parameters. You cited too young and too productive.  Which I argue is a bit off considering how we discuss younger more productive players here.  

 

Edited August 5, 2022 by The Dude