Greatest NYR Reclamation Project?

[josh]

35 minutes ago, The Dude said:

But.....  2 team's prior.  4 years in the league.... LOL. It's a fit for the parameters. You cited too young and too productive.  Which I argue is a bit off considering how we discuss younger more productive players here.  

 

Bitch I’m the Supreme Court.

 

take up your issue with Congress 

[Pete]

56 minutes ago, The Dude said:

? So a 2nd round pick is nothing and Detroit and Edmonton didn't even want Graves at all? I don't understand how Graves in Josh's terms is too young and too productive to be considered a reclamation, and I believe you agreed.... But you're ready to ditch two higher drafted players,  who are younger and just as productive if not more.. but would agree that they would be another team's reclamation.. 

 

I don't understand how Graves draft status takes him out of the conversation. 

 

The Rangers took a 4th year player that barely anyone knew about and turned him into a Ranger legend. Someone had hopes for Graves as he made it to the NHL for 2 teams prior. 

 

Which is it? Too young, too productive or not drafted high enough?  The guidelines are all over the place in your standards to act so matter of factly. 

I think you're confusing two arguments. 

 

I really don't care if number 24 and number 72 become another team's reclamation project. I discuss about what's best for this team in its current situation.

 

I don't think anybody can really speak to what was in the best interest of Detroit and Edmonton's situation at the time they moved Graves. 

 

And this thread really isn't about Kakko or Chytil. 

[The Dude]

6 hours ago, josh said:

Bitch I’m the Supreme Court.

 

take up your issue with Congress 

That was me posting.  Not you're mom. She says hi though and to take out the trash in the bathroom. Don't mind the condoms in there.. wasn't me. 

[The Dude]

6 hours ago, Pete said:

I think you're confusing two arguments. 

 

I really don't care if number 24 and number 72 become another team's reclamation project. I discuss about what's best for this team in its current situation.

 

I don't think anybody can really speak to what was in the best interest of Detroit and Edmonton's situation at the time they moved Graves. 

 

And this thread really isn't about Kakko or Chytil. 

The fact that Graves was 23/24 in his 4th year in the league, means as a 2nd round pick, someone thought he was special enough to jump into the league at 19/20 years old and played on 2 pretty good teams before coming here. 

 

I'm MAKING 2 "arguments".

 

I'm wondering how people can claim Graves was too young and it was too early to call him a bust at age 23/24 (just to back their opinion here), yet can easily walk away from 2 younger and more productive players that had a higher draft status today. I don't understand how Graves wasn't a bust, but these 2 are. 

 

This thread isn't about Chytil and Kakko, but their situations today can be used as comparable variables to the matter of factly opinions given here. 

 

Saying  "I don't care if Kakko goes and becomes someone's reclamation project", doesn't back your hard stance about what makes a reclamation.. The fact that you don't care, has nothing to do with what we are trying to iron out as what the guidelines are to form a base of what we want to define reclamation as. 

 

But, it's fine. You see it differently.  Let's just disagree. Sorry to drag it out. 

[Pete]

28 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Saying  "I don't care if Kakko goes and becomes someone's reclamation project", doesn't back your hard stance about what makes a reclamation

But it does exactly that.

 

Me: Graves wasn't a reclamation, he was just young and the other teams lost patience.

 

You: Don't you want to move Chytil? (I actually don't want to move on from Kakko, but at the time I didn't see the point in arguing that, too)

 

Me: OK, then he'll be someone else's reclamation project. 

 

Regarding Graves, I agree  with you. he was always a player with potential. No one said otherwise. 

 

While Detroit might have thought he underachieved, he was also part of the package that got Jimmy Carson from Edmonton. Jimmy Carson was the centerpiece of the Gretzky trade. You have to give good players to get good players.

 

After 11 points in a Cup run, he signed an offer sheet to come here, Neil Smith knew him from Detroit and went after him. It was a 5 year contract. Shitty players don't get offer sheeted for 5 year deals. 

 

Not sure how this makes him a reclamation project. He was never tossed away like trash. 

 

Strome was traded from the Isles to the Oilers for Jordan Eberle...and then traded here for...Ryan Spooner...

 

So in Strome's case his stock was very low when he came here. Graves stock was high, same case as Zibenejad. That's the difference. 

[RangersIn7]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

But it does exactly that.

 

Me: Graves wasn't a reclamation, he was just young and the other teams lost patience.

 

You: Don't you want to move Chytil? (I actually don't want to move on from Kakko, but at the time I didn't see the point in arguing that, too)

 

Me: OK, then he'll be someone else's reclamation project. 

 

Regarding Graves, I agree  with you. he was always a player with potential. No one said otherwise. 

 

While Detroit might have thought he underachieved, he was also part of the package that got Jimmy Carson from Edmonton. Jimmy Carson was the centerpiece of the Gretzky trade. You have to give good players to get good players.

 

After 11 points in a Cup run, he signed an offer sheet to come here, Neil Smith knew him from Detroit and went after him. It was a 5 year contract. Shitty players don't get offer sheeted for 5 year deals. 

 

Not sure how this makes him a reclamation project. He was never tossed away like trash. 

 

Strome was traded from the Isles to the Oilers for Jordan Eberle...and then traded here for...Ryan Spooner...

 

So in Strome's case his stock was very low when he came here. Graves stock was high, same case as Zibenejad. That's the difference. 

Graves actually exceeded expectations when he came here. Immensely.

 

Yes, 2nd round pick. Good size. Physical. Smart. Defensively responsible. But while he had been a scorer at every other level, he hadn’t shown that in the NHL and I don’t believe it was widely thought that he’d instantly become a 1st liner and the goal scorer he became as a Ranger. 

 

But he wasn’t a reclamation project. He just got here, got playing time with Mess and it clicked. 

[Pete]

27 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

Graves actually exceeded expectations when he came here. Immensely.

 

Yes, 2nd round pick. Good size. Physical. Smart. Defensively responsible. But while he had been a scorer at every other level, he hadn’t shown that in the NHL and I don’t believe it was widely thought that he’d instantly become a 1st liner and the goal scorer he became as a Ranger. 

 

But he wasn’t a reclamation project. He just got here, got playing time with Mess and it clicked. 

He was a 60 point player who had 2 great goal scoring seasons (which of agree exceeded expectations) and a bunch of good ones. I'd say that's what you'd expect from a 2nd rounder... But you may be right that it wasn't expected from him when he signed here. 

[Sod16]

A note on Graves: he signed an offer sheet for five years at 500k per which the Oilers did not match.  The contract was considered rich at the time (Leetch was making $250K in 91-92!).  I wouldn't call a guy coming in through an offer sheet a reclamation project, and reclamation projects don't get five year deals.  

Edited August 5, 2022 by Sod16