Is Panarin's Contract a Detriment to the Team?

[The Dude]

33 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

 

Detriment just isn't the right word man. If you have $100 to spend on a new outfit and you go to the Gap with Pete and his friends and spend $60 on a sweater vest button up combo, yeah you might only have $40 for a pair of jeans and boat shoes, but you still have a pretty sick combo up top that's worth $60.

Will it count as trolling if we continue to use the Gap against Pete? 

[LindG1000]

26 minutes ago, Capt said:

I'm not arguing that his contract ws bd when they signed him.  Covid happened & while we cry bout it the league & the world moved on.  The league's standard for competition adjusted.  I'm very simply saying the team needs to explore their options in getting out from his contract nd building in other direction.  Doesn't infer that his contract ws awful  when signed, it's just hindering now.  Yes because the cp didn't go up.  Covid isn't going to be the excuse why I'm not locking up Miller & Lf long term.  Nobody cares bout Covid, move on.  The rest of the league will without you

 

There's no getting out from under it, nor should you want to. Not that there's an option to just move 11.6M without taking 11.6M back.

 

There is also no reason why we don't re-sign Miller and Laf long term. 

 

And fucks sake man, fix your A key. 

[Pete]

8 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Will it count as trolling if we continue to use the Gap against Pete? 

I mean when you shop at Target and Walmart, can you really make fun of the Gap? 

[The Dude]

35 minutes ago, Capt said:

Better spent on. more complete player.  I don't view points s the end of it.  He's perimeter player who hs. questionable compete level.  He's skilled s fuck, no doubt.  However if I'm paying top 3 money it better be  perfect player.  He is not even close.  The guys he's $ like, re centers, which is so much more important.  They also put up  lot more gols nd I don't have to mess with the numbers to get to 100 pt yrs.  

 

The playoffs while some my think I'm overblowing made it crystal clear the he's very flawed player.   Skilled nd productive during the regular season but also easily confined to the point of being irrelevant when the teams get used to each other.   Tht is not the case with his peers making his money. 

Again.  It IS close and that's the point you continually fail to get. You want to compare him to McDavid and Draisaitl, and he's not far behind in production and his team went further  than theirs despite their playoff production. Like it or not,  Panarin draws defenders and is a serious problem for opposing teams. 

 

I can agree that the Wilson incident messed him up a bit as did the Putin shit. I honestly believe that guy when he says he will be better. Guy walks the walk.

[Pete]

5 minutes ago, LindG1000 said:

 

There's no getting out from under it, nor should you want to. Not that there's an option to just move 11.6M without taking 11.6M back.

 

There is also no reason why we don't re-sign Miller and Laf long term. 

 

And fucks sake man, fix your A key. 

He can't, he spent his entire Keyboard Cap on other keys that he needs. It was worth it at the time, but man now that he needs more keys... Fuck an A. 

[BrooksBurner]

11 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Will it count as trolling if we continue to use the Gap against Pete? 

 

I'm not sure, but it just struck me how everyone calls it "the Gap", just like everyone says "the Ukraine".

[BrooksBurner]

13 minutes ago, LindG1000 said:

 

There's no getting out from under it, nor should you want to. Not that there's an option to just move 11.6M without taking 11.6M back.

 

There is also no reason why we don't re-sign Miller and Laf long term. 

 

And fucks sake man, fix your A key. 

 

Lmao. I haven't had a key stick that badly since I was 12 or 13 and discovered porn on my Windows 98 desktop.

[The Dude]

20 hours ago, LindG1000 said:

 

There's no getting out from under it, nor should you want to. Not that there's an option to just move 11.6M without taking 11.6M back.

 

⁹

20 hours ago, rmc51 said:

 

I'm not sure, but it just struck me how everyone calls it "the Gap", just like everyone says "the Ukraine".

Here we go political Gap talk! God damn pinko commie Gap shoppers!! They ain't got SHIT  on AMERICAN eagle!!!

Edited July 26, 2022 by The Dude

[The Dude]

Just now, rmc51 said:

 

Lmao. I haven't had a key stick that badly since I was 12 or 13 and discovered porn on my Windows 98 desktop.

While searching for Gap, I'm sure..  

[BrooksBurner]

2 minutes ago, The Dude said:

While searching for Gap, I'm sure..  

 

Can't beat the Ukraine Gap

Edited July 26, 2022 by rmc51

[Capt]

1 hour ago, The Dude said:

So, this whole thing really is just a "I don't like the player" thing  

 

Ok. Move along. You dragged this whole thing out and what we have all been saying about your opinion  (which you denied) was actually true. You just don't like the player. It's not his salary. It's not his production. It's you not liking his make up. I think you'd have gotten more backing than you think,  if you just came out and said this from the beginning. But you had to drag his cap hit and production into it. 

 

This was ridiculous man. All this to get here. 

Obviously I don't like the player.  The reasons I don't like him is the reason why I believe he's overpaid &  detriment to the team.  I don't believe in him being the guy to lead the team to win the toughest trophy in sports.  I also believe  that it's possible to trde his contract without getting the total  $11.5M back.  Money is coming back but  savings is possible.  If his contract is right then other's will be lining up to make it work.  I believe other GMS believe what I believe.  They would want retention in trading for him because @ $11.5M, his contract would negatively effect other roster decisions to the point getting him is pointless.  

Edited July 26, 2022 by Capt

[Capt]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

He can't, he spent his entire Keyboard Cap on other keys that he needs. It was worth it at the time, but man now that he needs more keys... Fuck an A. 

No I'm just used to doing these things with crayons not computers.

[Keirik]

On 7/24/2022 at 9:44 PM, Capt said:

Haha.  I guess you think Tkachuck's effect is just about the points he produces?  He's also 24 and obviously just entering his prime right now.  Panarin is hitting 31 in Oct.  Tkchuck while close in points  also scored 10 more goals  

I see you’re still not understanding what a flat cap means.  
 

There’s also the common sense here. Tkachuks best year is 104 points in 82 along side of Lindholm and Gaudreau

 

Panarin? 95 in 69 along side Strome and Fast. Come on now. I don’t even know why we are still doing this. 

 

 

[Keirik]

The five best free agent signings of the NHL salary cap era

 

4. Artemi Panarin

Quote

We knew ‘The Bread Man’ was a great hockey player by summer 2019. He was already a Calder Trophy winner and Second-Team All-Star as a Chicago Blackhawk. In two seasons leading up to his walk year, he’d averaged better than a point per game despite playing on some defensive-minded Columbus Blue Jacket teams. But the New York Rangers paid Panarin true superstar money, and he’s somehow managed to exceed expectations in his first three seasons with them.

Since Panarin became a Ranger, he’s amassed 249 points in 186 games. That’s 110 points per 82 games. Over that span, in 5-on-5 play (min. 1,000 minutes played), Panarin leads all NHLers in assists per 60 minutes and ranks sixth in points and primary assists per 60. He’s right up there with the top left wingers in the game – and of his generation. Not bad considering the Rangers, less than 17 months before the Panarin signing, penned a letter to fans asking for patience during their rebuild. By 2021-22? Eastern Conference finalists.

https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/the-five-best-free-agent-signings-of-the-nhl-salary-cap-era/

[Phil]

10 hours ago, Pete said:

Good luck finding someone to just take $11M without getting a worse contract back.

 

This is all fiction. 

 

I didn't say it was likely. Just that another shrinking violet performance could open the door. The team I'd be looking at as a potential partner is Anaheim.

[LindG1000]

11 hours ago, Pete said:

Good luck finding someone to just take $11M without getting a worse contract back.

 

This is all fiction. 

 

13 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

I didn't say it was likely. Just that another shrinking violet performance could open the door. The team I'd be looking at as a potential partner is Anaheim.

 

It takes something unique.

 

Calgary, for all intents and purposes, just traded a 9.5M contract without taking on a worse contract and without getting totally ripped off.

 

Vegas, on the other hand, has offed a Vezina winner and a 30 goal scorer for goddamn nothing in two straight offseasons.

 

The problem with this entire idea - discounting the reality that Panarin is indisputably one of the top 5 wings in the game and trading him for anything short of a proper ransom is inexcusable - is that the Calgary situation is extremely rare in a cap NHL and the Vegas situation is vomit-inducingly stupid. I'm not really sure there's an in-between with these bigger deals until they've wound down to the end. 

[The Dude]

11 hours ago, Capt said:

Obviously I don't like the player.  The reasons I don't like him is the reason why I believe he's overpaid &  detriment to the team.  I don't believe in him being the guy to lead the team to win the toughest trophy in sports.  I also believe  that it's possible to trde his contract without getting the total  $11.5M back.  Money is coming back but  savings is possible.  If his contract is right then other's will be lining up to make it work.  I believe other GMS believe what I believe.  They would want retention in trading for him because @ $11.5M, his contract would negatively effect other roster decisions to the point getting him is pointless.  

Well you could have said that to start. You didn't. I'm pretty sure you were saying that you wouldn't care if he was paid 2 mill less. Made it all about his salary. But it's not that. You don't like the player. You think he's too soft and isn't good enough to be the focal point of a winning offense. 

 

When the real Panarin shows up next season, I hope you can eat crow. Guy is a gamer. Something was wrong with him last season. He was a bit off.  Others talked about it all year (despite his production).  He became even more off after he got injured right before the playoffs.  

 

He vows to be better. If you're not a believer and don't think that will be enough, fine. Some/Most of us do think it will be a better season and playoffs for him and we know that replacing his skills set and production would be next to impossible.

 

The flat cap hurt the progression of this team and a few others. Denying that reality is just being argumentative.

 

You can't just trade an 11 million dollar player.  Jesus look at the Toronto-Tavares deal. That too was supposed to level out and be just average for such players.  It looks kinda ridiculous now with what the cap is. Toronto was banking on more cap space, just like the Rangers and the rest of the league. The Rangers and Leafs grabbed the big free agent when they were available and with an escalating cap. There hasn't been one prime time free agent on the market.  This year it's Kadri and it's looking more and more like he's going to have to sign for less than expected. That's the flat cap world the league transformed into.

 

Not accepting that truth is not constructive and is more of a tantrum about a player you just don't like. 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by The Dude

[Pete]

3 hours ago, Phil said:

 

I didn't say it was likely. Just that another shrinking violet performance could open the door. The team I'd be looking at as a potential partner is Anaheim.

And why would Anaheim want that contract for a player who doesn't show up in the playoffs?

 

At the point he becomes a "shrinking violet", he actually becomes untradeable without a sweetener (players or retention).

3 hours ago, LindG1000 said:

 

 

It takes something unique.

 

Calgary, for all intents and purposes, just traded a 9.5M contract without taking on a worse contract and without getting totally ripped off.

 

Vegas, on the other hand, has offed a Vezina winner and a 30 goal scorer for goddamn nothing in two straight offseasons.

 

The problem with this entire idea - discounting the reality that Panarin is indisputably one of the top 5 wings in the game and trading him for anything short of a proper ransom is inexcusable - is that the Calgary situation is extremely rare in a cap NHL and the Vegas situation is vomit-inducingly stupid. I'm not really sure there's an in-between with these bigger deals until they've wound down to the end. 

Yea, I mean Calgary traded a player who didn't want to be there and wasn't going to sign. Totally different scenario.

[Phil]

2 minutes ago, Pete said:

And why would Anaheim want that contract for a player who doesn't show up in the playoffs?

 

At the point he becomes a "shrinking violet", he actually becomes untradeable without a sweetener (players or retention).

 

Because they're a team on the rise, who are going to want to make the playoffs soon. The idea of pairing Strome and Panarin again for the regular season, even if it's only for the regular season, is probably a very attractive prospect for them.

[Pete]

5 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Because they're a team on the rise, who are going to want to make the playoffs soon. The idea of pairing Strome and Panarin again for the regular season, even if it's only for the regular season, is probably a very attractive prospect for them.

At that point they have RFAs in Terry, Zegras (and Comtois, should he do anything), Drysdale, and they'd need to replace Henrique and Shattenkirk...Are they gonna want to add $11M for a 32 year old "non-performer"?

 

I think we can both agree this is all very unlikely.

[BrooksBurner]

9 minutes ago, Pete said:

At that point they have RFAs in Terry, Zegras (and Comtois, should he do anything), Drysdale, and they'd need to replace Henrique and Shattenkirk...Are they gonna want to add $11M for a 32 year old "non-performer"?

 

I think we can both agree this is all very unlikely.

How are you making this argument after spending multiple pages [rightfully] saying Panarin is worth his contract?

 

Devil’s advocate gonna devil’s advocate?

[Flynn]

I love the offseason... We could have a 32 page thread on the topic of "What's 2 + 2?"  and only get begrudging agreement the answer is somewhere between 3 and 5

[Sharpshooter]

The other day was the 10-year anniversary of the Rangers trading for Rick Nash. We could do another Nash thread. 

[Phil]

20 minutes ago, Pete said:

At that point they have RFAs in Terry, Zegras (and Comtois, should he do anything), Drysdale, and they'd need to replace Henrique and Shattenkirk...Are they gonna want to add $11M for a 32 year old "non-performer"?

 

I think we can both agree this is all very unlikely.

 

I already said it's not likely. I'm just saying, I think it's possible the Rangers/Drury would look at options to move on if he has another playoffs like this last one. We're way too far out from what that might look like or who may actually want him by that point to informatively speculate. The only reason I'm even mentioning Anaheim this early is because Strome signed there.

[Phil]

5 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

The other day was the 10-year anniversary of the Rangers trading for Rick Nash. We could do another Nash thread. 

 

Great trade*

 

*Because it got the Rangers Ryan Lindgren.