"Buchnevich Will Never Pace Almost a P/GP Again — it was a Contract Year"

[Ozzy]

17 minutes ago, Pete said:

Pretty sure Blais would be doing better than Hunt in that role and we probably wouldn't be looking for a winger.

Also we haven't gotten into the what if Buch was here, then Kakko is on line 2 where he's Kakka, nor did they know at the time of the trade that Krav would be on round 2 of being a bitch boi. 

Everything went the way it was supposed to go except for the return on the trade.

But he was never going to be here this year, and even if he was it wouldn't matter cuz he wasn't going to be here next year. He's not the guy that's going to make or break our fortunes this season. 

Money....

[josh]

19 minutes ago, Pete said:

Pretty sure Blais would be doing better than Hunt in that role and we probably wouldn't be looking for a winger.

Also we haven't gotten into the what if Buch was here, then Kakko is on line 2 where he's Kakka, nor did they know at the time of the trade that Krav would be on round 2 of being a bitch boi. 

Everything went the way it was supposed to go except for the return on the trade.

But he was never going to be here this year, and even if he was it wouldn't matter cuz he wasn't going to be here next year. He's not the guy that's going to make or break our fortunes this season. 

Don't be silly. Blais has never played more than 40 games in a season, He'd be hurt his 2nd shift.

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, Cash or Czech said:

Literally no space beyond this season. And who knows how much worse the return would've gotten knowing how in a bind we would have been for cap space after next season.

We've seen what teams are trading to clear cap space. This was necessary asset management for the future.

For the 6,000th time (this is an exaggeration folks, I don't seriously mean 6,000, because as this thread shows, people get bent on my accuracy),

 

If they don't sign Goodrow and Nemeth, THERE IS YOUR CAP SPACE!!! Past this season! Those guys are signed to term. If they aren't signed THERES THE SPACE!  It puts them EXACTLY in the position they are in right this very moment financially going forward. Actually ..  BETTER, because we'd have the player we are currently seeking and we wouldn't have that awful Goodrow contract on the books for six fucking years! Can we all agree the Goodrow signing was not a good idea?

With Blais injury history,  something tells me the Rangers could have traded something else for the guy if you absolutely NEED him. I love the player. But I also know that this is going to be his career story, due to how he plays and how it's gone for him so far. 

I know, I know. The Rangers are playing extremely well...  Let me guess.. They don't need him... They couldn't possibly be where they are now with Buchnevich in  and Nemeth and Goodrow out..

Extend Buch for 3-4 years, (he only got 5.8 from STL, maybe he gives a smaller hometown discount? 5.5?) Don't sign Nemeth. Don't sign Goodrow.  Use Barron. Use Hajek (he's been better than Nemeth....) or a rookie. 

How does this NOT work going forward? Unless you feel Nemeth and/or Goodrow are major pieces to this team's success (I certainly don't and I'm pretty sure I've seen others supporting this no Buchnevich theme, deservedly bash these 2 players a bunch this season, soooo...), I don't understand why people say it couldn't possibly be done. 

 

 

Edited December 23, 2021 by The Dude

[Ozzy]

I don't think we need another Buchnevich though...I'd rather have a guy in the mold of a Greenway or Getzlaf.   Buch to me is a perimeter player.  I prefer "Playoff players", like Goodrow, Blais, and so forth....especially combined with what we already have in place here.

The '94 team dealt away Tony Amonte for Noonan and Matteau...not really production players, but character, grittier, playoff grinders.  The result took care of itself, and Matteau ended up scoring the goal for the ages.

[The Dude]

4 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

I don't think we need another Buchnevich though...I'd rather have a guy in the mold of a Greenway or Getzlaf.   Buch to me is a perimeter player.  I prefer "Playoff players", like Goodrow, Blais, and so forth....especially combined with what we already have in place here.

The '94 team dealt away Tony Amonte for Noonan and Matteau...not really production players, but character, grittier, playoff grinders.  The result took care of itself, and Matteau ended up scoring the goal for the ages.

Did you watch Buch last season bro? Fucking kid was down and dirty and was crashing the net and winning battles. You must have buried he Tom Wilson incident deep down inside somewhere.  Where he was on that play,, is what he's become as well as developing a pretty sweet shot. He turned that corner and is continuing to do so this year.

Can we stop calling Blais a playoff performer? He got a couple shifts on the top line in the playoffs one year. He had 1 goal and 2 assists that year. 

Goodrow has been useless 90% of this season. 

Gimme the young player who produces and plays a gritty 2 way game over Goodrow who has done nothing here. Nothing.  Want playoff experience? There was plenty cheaper options out there. Including Perry, and Getzlaf who could have been had short term and be a bit more noticeable on the ice. 

Perimeter? I think you are deluding yourself here. 

https://youtu.be/ZypZtFHQKe8

[Valriera]

Look, another argument that doesn’t matter at all if either of our 1OA or 2oa play remotely close to expectations.

you’re not wrong that we could have buch instead of goodrow and nemeth, but you’re also missing the entire point of moving him, so. We are essentially missing four wingers that were projected to fill a similar role for 1/6th the money and none of them are currently doing that. Those four wingers’ salaries, combined, dont equal Buch’s. So it’s a no brainer to make the move and of course we can look back and say well it didn’t work out as expected but you know what? You still make the move 10/10 times because it was smart given information available

[Pete]

Blais got a couple of shifts on the top line? Clearly someone didn't watch much Blues playoff hockey that year. 

[Tonybologna]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

Pretty sure Blais would be doing better than Hunt in that role and we probably wouldn't be looking for a winger.

Also we haven't gotten into the what if Buch was here, then Kakko is on line 2 where he's Kakka, nor did they know at the time of the trade that Krav would be on round 2 of being a bitch boi. 

Everything went the way it was supposed to go except for the return on the trade.

But he was never going to be here this year, and even if he was it wouldn't matter cuz he wasn't going to be here next year. He's not the guy that's going to make or break our fortunes this season. 

If Kravtsov was part of the trading Buch plan he NEVER should have been asked to go to Hartford, so it's two major fuck-ups leaving a big hole in our lineup. Of course we've been pretty damn good despite that but I do wonder how much better we could be/look with Krav or Buch in the top 6.

[Ozzy]

58 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Did you watch Buch last season bro? Fucking kid was down and dirty and was crashing the net and winning battles. You must have buried he Tom Wilson incident deep down inside somewhere.  Where he was on that play,, is what he's become as well as developing a pretty sweet shot. He turned that corner and is continuing to do so this year.

Can we stop calling Blais a playoff performer? He got a couple shifts on the top line in the playoffs one year. He had 1 goal and 2 assists that year. 

Goodrow has been useless 90% of this season. 

Gimme the young player who produces and plays a gritty 2 way game over Goodrow who has done nothing here. Nothing.  Want playoff experience? There was plenty cheaper options out there. Including Perry, and Getzlaf who could have been had short term and be a bit more noticeable on the ice. 

Perimeter? I think you are deluding yourself here. 

https://youtu.be/ZypZtFHQKe8

I understand where you're coming from, Dude man...I just feel differently about this team we have now.  @Petealready covered the Cap circumstances, but this team I still believe feels chemically different.  That in the fact that I don't have a problem with this team playing against "heavy" teams.  We can answer the bell against teams like the Isles and when the time comes, we're going to be able to compete in a 7 game playoff series against teams built like Calgary and Colorado.

Buchnevich, in my opinion wouldn't have made much of a difference with how this season's gone...if you wanna see why we're at the top of the standings, we have to look between the pipes at that #31 guy. 

5 minutes ago, Pete said:

Blais got a couple of shifts on the top line? Clearly someone didn't watch much Blues playoff hockey that year. 

He's also got a ring for his efforts...and that says something to me, anyway.

[The Dude]

7 minutes ago, Valriera said:

Look, another argument that doesn’t matter at all if either of our 1OA or 2oa play remotely close to expectations.

you’re not wrong that we could have buch instead of goodrow and nemeth, but you’re also missing the entire point of moving him, so. We are essentially missing four wingers that were projected to fill a similar role for 1/6th the money and none of them are currently doing that. Those four wingers’ salaries, combined, dont equal Buch’s. So it’s a no brainer to make the move and of course we can look back and say well it didn’t work out as expected but you know what? You still make the move 10/10 times because it was smart given information available

Everyone is saying the reason for moving him was because it wasn't do-able because of the cap. That's just not true. At all. 

Why waste 4 roster spots in trying (and failing) to fill the roster spot unnecessarily opened by not committing to Buchnevich? I don't care if their salaries combined don't equal what Buch got. What does this accomplish? They would STILL  be under the cap. 

If you have Buch you have 1 extra winger whom should be in the conversation for a roster spot in Kravtsov. He's probably still here if he doesn't make the roster because he will have lost his spot to Buchnevich, not Hunt, Gauthier, Tinordi, or a guy that was deemed the walking dead in Hajek.  I'd think he'd understand. 

Please explain why you do this move 10 out of 10 times?

Smart given information available? The information available was that the 1 &2 OA were obviously not ready for serious roles, and Kravstov was pretty much a player that could potentially push either one off the roster.  

I don't understand this thinking. What's so smart about walking away from a blossoming player, who was well liked in the locker room? Why would you rather have 4 options that produce nothing,  just because they would be cheaper?  You pay for production.  Production reduces the need to stock cheap filler and rely on prospects to take on roles most SHOULD have saw they weren't ready for. 

You'd still rather go with the risk that YOU KNOW has failed if you could do it over again. Why? What's the advantage unless you just don't like Buchnevich?

 

[Ozzy]

25 minutes ago, Valriera said:

Look, another argument that doesn’t matter at all if either of our 1OA or 2oa play remotely close to expectations.

you’re not wrong that we could have buch instead of goodrow and nemeth, but you’re also missing the entire point of moving him, so. We are essentially missing four wingers that were projected to fill a similar role for 1/6th the money and none of them are currently doing that. Those four wingers’ salaries, combined, dont equal Buch’s. So it’s a no brainer to make the move and of course we can look back and say well it didn’t work out as expected but you know what? You still make the move 10/10 times because it was smart given information available

This is the financial part that pretty much rings true in my opinion, Val. 

The thing I dig about that deal is that we got a guy back with Blais that checks a few boxes for what I wanted to see them do in the off season:

• Bigger
• Stronger
• Drive to the net; Vertical game
• Play a tougher, 2 way game
• Stanley Cup experience (has a ring)

Shame he's done for the season...I would've like to see him play more this year.  I think he'd have been a reliable and solid addition the rest of the way.

[Pete]

24 minutes ago, Tonybologna said:

If Kravtsov was part of the trading Buch plan he NEVER should have been asked to go to Hartford, so it's two major fuck-ups leaving a big hole in our lineup. Of course we've been pretty damn good despite that but I do wonder how much better we could be/look with Krav or Buch in the top 6.

I think you're forgetting that he still has to earn a spot which he failed to do because he was injured. They've already said they asked him to go to Hartford for conditioning and he said no.

[Pete]

Keep reading how bad the players are but the team is much better this year than last. Funny how that works.

[The Dude]

12 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

I understand where you're coming from, Dude man...I just feel differently about this team we have now.  @Petealready covered the Cap circumstances, but this team I still believe feels chemically different.  That in the fact that I don't have a problem with this team playing against "heavy" teams.  We can answer the bell against teams like the Isles and when the time comes, we're going to be able to compete in a 7 game playoff series against teams built like Calgary and Colorado.

Buchnevich, in my opinion wouldn't have made much of a difference with how this season's gone...if you wanna see why we're at the top of the standings, we have to look between the pipes at that #31 guy. 

He's also got a ring for his efforts...and that says something to me, anyway.

Yeah but I can't see what Pete says. He's blocked. Also, he couldn't have covered the cap concerns. I just explained it. Some silly mistakes everyone keeps making is adding Buchnevich to a roster that has Goodrow, Nemeth and Blais . I can't lay it out any more simple. TAKE THEM OFF THE ROSTER AND IT WORKS. 

Again. Blais had 1 goal 2 assists on that cup run. He wasn't on the top line though out and if he was.   1 goal 2 assists...  Big goal. Fine. 

I don't want to shit on Blais. I think he's awesome. I do think they probably could have gotten him in some other deal and be used in a bottom 6 role. But let's just relax with propping him up like he's Keith Tkachuk.  He's a good skating energy player that can surprise you offensively if he's not on the IR.  

 

Ozz..  this team has YET to step up to the plate against the teams you mentioned.  Infact they spanked the Rangers around. Bad. 

I do like how the 4th line has finally shaken out and contributed in the last month or more.. It has definitely given the team some swagger. It may have given Panarin some confidence back. But they were finding ways to win before that, and I like to think they would have had less trouble "finding" ways had they had used better players on the top RW spots (and jettisoned Hunt into space).. They had a RW that checked a lot of boxes. They're currently looking for what seems like a direct replacement. 

[Ozzy]

Can't make a good cake with just icing, man!  LOL

[The Dude]

3 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Can't make a good cake with just icing, man!  LOL

You're using the wrong logic though.  You can make cake batter from scratch.  You don't have to overpay for it over 6 years. And you need icing to win hockey games. 

 

Yeah... that's it. 

[Pete]

6 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Can't make a good cake with just icing, man!  LOL

It's almost like the point was to get tougher...which is why they added Goodrow and Blais and Reaves...and they're a better team who shows up more prepared to play and scores some more ugly goals...again, funny how that works.

And of course no one is factoring in raises for anyone after next season so no we could not afford Buch who took a cost of living rate in STL that I doubt he'd take living in NYC. 

And yea, the Dude has me "blocked" and responds to my posts by quoting other people. 

Edited December 23, 2021 by Pete

[Ozzy]

1 minute ago, The Dude said:

Yeah but I can't see what Pete says. He's blocked. Also, he couldn't have covered the cap concerns. I just explained it. Some silly mistakes everyone keeps making is adding Buchnevich to a roster that has Goodrow, Nemeth and Blais . I can't lay it out any more simple. TAKE THEM OFF THE ROSTER AND IT WORKS. 

Again. Blais had 1 goal 2 assists on that cup run. He wasn't on the top line though out and if he was.   1 goal 2 assists...  Big goal. Fine. 

I don't want to shit on Blais. I think he's awesome. I do think they probably could have gotten him in some other deal and be used in a bottom 6 role. But let's just relax with propping him up like he's Keith Tkachuk.  He's a good skating energy player that can surprise you offensively if he's not on the IR.  

 

Ozz..  this team has YET to step up to the plate against the teams you mentioned.  Infact they spanked the Rangers around. Bad. 

I do like how the 4th line has finally shaken out and contributed in the last month or more.. It has definitely given the team some swagger. It may have given Panarin some confidence back. But they were finding ways to win before that, and I like to think they would have had less trouble "finding" ways had they had used better players on the top RW spots (and jettisoned Hunt into space).. They had a RW that checked a lot of boxes. They're currently looking for what seems like a direct replacement. 

Oh, I'm not saying you're wrong, Dude.  If that's what you expected to see from Buch, he's making a great case to have been a solid player for any team...not just us.

The thing is I wanted the Rangers to add size, and toughness in order to weather the storm of a pending playoff run in the next couple season to come, possibly as soon as this season.  I figured since Buch was going to be the guy to go, why not fill a few gaps and even bolster it with that 2nd round pick.  I feel like if we signed Buch, we lose any chance of keeping Strome, who I feel very strongly about keeping.

There's no doubt it looks shitty right now the way things shook out so far.  But I would still make that trade, because I still think we're better off going that route of grabbing young, tougher experienced players that play a less perimeter game.

I'm not saying Buch plays like a pansy, but I want bigger and tougher then him, that's all. 

I actually really love this team right now.  They're young and they have balls the size of Hippity Hops!!  I just need Reaves to get a few goals now, so I can bust G Man's balls about stealing my pick in the Ballsy thread!!  LOL

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

Oh, I'm not saying you're wrong, Dude.  If that's what you expected to see from Buch, he's making a great case to have been a solid player for any team...not just us.

The thing is I wanted the Rangers to add size, and toughness in order to weather the storm of a pending playoff run in the next couple season to come, possibly as soon as this season.  I figured since Buch was going to be the guy to go, why not fill a few gaps and even bolster it with that 2nd round pick.  I feel like if we signed Buch, we lose any chance of keeping Strome, who I feel very strongly about keeping.

There's no doubt it looks shitty right now the way things shook out so far.  But I would still make that trade, because I still think we're better off going that route of grabbing young, tougher experienced players that play a less perimeter game.

I'm not saying Buch plays like a pansy, but I want bigger and tougher then him, that's all. 

I actually really love this team right now.  They're young and they have balls the size of Hippity Hops!!  I just need Reaves to get a few goals now, so I can bust G Man's balls about stealing my pick in the Ballsy thread!!  LOL

I can't do this anymore.  Why do you think there is a difference between our cap had we signed Buch for 3-4 years at 5.5- 5.8. Vs having Nemeth and Goodrow here totaling 6.1 mill with no movement clauses with more years attached? Keeping Buch SAVES YOU a couple hundred K and the time in years would be less.

Stromes contract isn't affected by signing Buch, any more than it is by signing  Goodrow and Nemeth.  It's exactly the same, minus a roster spot, which I've said could be filled in house and by players already on this roster.. 

 

You keep talking about weathering the storm against these top teams. We have gotten beaten pretty bad by the teams you speak of, DUE to trying to play this "muscle" game that I think we ALL over indulge in wanting to see. You can't just sprinkle that element into how these guys play. Their top players ARE finesse, and unless you put a player with ACTUAL SKILL out there with them,  you aren’t going to get much different results than you're getting from Hunt. 

I think this team has potential.  It always did. Our lines are pretty much what they were under Quinn, but we have a 4th line that stays within their roles. Things shaped up when Gallant stopped trying to force Goodrow into the top 6.

To me, Gallant, Fox, Shestyorkin, Kreider, and now Trouba and Panarin are what is going to carry this team as far as it can go. I fee like they need one another piece at forward. We differ on that ingredient. Unless you're adding an actual power forward, I don't think the answer is another banger to slosh it up in the top 6. I'd rather a shooter who can do a bit of everything.  

Edited December 23, 2021 by The Dude

[Keirik]

13 minutes ago, The Dude said:

I can't do this anymore.  Why do you think there is a difference between our cap had we signed Buch for 3-4 years at 5.5- 5.8. Vs having Nemeth and Goodrow here totaling 6.1 mill with no movement clauses? Keeping Buch SAVES YOU a couple hundred K and the time in years would be the same. Stromes contract isn't affected by signing Buch, any more than it is by signing  Goodrow and Nemeth.  It's exactly the same,  minus a roster spot, which I've said could be filled in house and already on this roster.. 

 

You keep talking about weathering the Strorm against these top teams. We have gotten beaten pretty bad by the teams you speak of, DUE to trying to play this "muscle" game that I think we ALL over indulge in wanting to see. 

I think this team has potential.  It always did. Our lines are pretty much what they were under Quinn, but we have a 4th line that stays within their roles. To me, Gallant, Fox, Shestyorkin, Kreider, and now Trouba and Panarin are what is going to carry this team as far as it can go. I fee like they need one one piece. We differ on that ingredient. Unless you're adding an actual power forward, I don't think the answer is another banger to slosh it up in the top 6. I'd rather a shooter who can do a bit of everything.  

I don’t disagree with you that this team needs one more piece. I just think this team is committed to Alf and Kakko eventually growing into two pieces more. 

[Phil]

Botched trade. Shit happens. Hindsight is always 20-20.

[Ozzy]

17 hours ago, The Dude said:

I can't do this anymore.  Why do you think there is a difference between our cap had we signed Buch for 3-4 years at 5.5- 5.8. Vs having Nemeth and Goodrow here totaling 6.1 mill with no movement clauses with more years attached? Keeping Buch SAVES YOU a couple hundred K and the time in years would be less.

Stromes contract isn't affected by signing Buch, any more than it is by signing  Goodrow and Nemeth.  It's exactly the same, minus a roster spot, which I've said could be filled in house and by players already on this roster.. 

 

You keep talking about weathering the storm against these top teams. We have gotten beaten pretty bad by the teams you speak of, DUE to trying to play this "muscle" game that I think we ALL over indulge in wanting to see. You can't just sprinkle that element into how these guys play. Their top players ARE finesse, and unless you put a player with ACTUAL SKILL out there with them,  you aren’t going to get much different results than you're getting from Hunt. 

I think this team has potential.  It always did. Our lines are pretty much what they were under Quinn, but we have a 4th line that stays within their roles. Things shaped up when Gallant stopped trying to force Goodrow into the top 6.

To me, Gallant, Fox, Shestyorkin, Kreider, and now Trouba and Panarin are what is going to carry this team as far as it can go. I fee like they need one another piece at forward. We differ on that ingredient. Unless you're adding an actual power forward, I don't think the answer is another banger to slosh it up in the top 6. I'd rather a shooter who can do a bit of everything.  

Not discounting your point, Dude man...I hear ya....I just like players like Goodrow, Blais, Reaves and the like.  I really would have LOVED to get Greenway, but maybe down the road.  We can agree to disagree, that's cool.  I respect your stance on it though.  I just like the grinder type players better for this team right now.  I think they add that little extra that can win us games we didn't last season, by wearing down teams throughout a game. 

I'm never going to be sold on keeping Buchnevich though.  I kinda figured he'd be the odd man out all along. 

[Albatrosss]

3 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Not discounting your point, Dude man...I hear ya....I just like players like Goodrow, Blais, Reaves and the like.  I really would have LOVED to get Greenway, but maybe down the road.  We can agree to disagree, that's cool.  I respect your stance on it though.  I just like the grinder type players better for this team right now.  I think they add that little extra that can win us games we didn't last season, by wearing down teams throughout a game. 

I'm never going to be sold on keeping Buchnevich though.  I kinda figured he'd be the odd man out all along. 

if you like the grinder type, you cant be for re-signing Strome then.  

[Albatrosss]

21 hours ago, Pete said:

Keep reading how bad the players are but the team is much better this year than last. Funny how that works.

must be the coach

[Dunny]

I'm not sure how anyone could seriouy hold the opinion that this is  a good team. 

I'm not even convinced this is a playoff team.