Filip Chytil Problem

[josh]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

He is a Hartford success story, he's just not a Ranger success story.

And after so many people told me he was primed for a breakout season....

I don't disagree on your perspective on Chytil. I disagree on the timing. 

We can't be blaming him for scoring issues when Zibanejad and Panarin are quiet. And we can't blame him for defensive issues when... well, the defense.

I'm the first to bring up his career high 23 points after 4 seasons, but I'm not forcing a trade, and any trade has to be a legit and immediate upgrade to the current roster.

[Bugg]

2 hours ago, Phil said:

The Flames were also always one stride from the puck, which again means your skilled guys have to make quicker decisions. They need to dump more pucks in and hunt them down (and win those battles), to get away from the relentless forecheck. Again, grit issue. At least to me.

Still a Quinn hangover; if the cross ice tape to tape passes don't work, the top 2 lines go dead. Not enough dump and forecheck when skill/passing attack isn't working. When your 4th line is your only offense like last night, that's a problem. 

[Pete]

30 minutes ago, josh said:

any trade has to be a legit and immediate upgrade to the current roster.

100% agreed, but if you keep him in his current situation there's no way his value goes up... Everybody always says bread man makes everyone look better, we certainly saw that's not the case and it doesn't bode well for Chytil. I think a lot of scouts had their eyes on those games.

[Valriera]

9 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Still a Quinn hangover; if the cross ice tape to tape passes don't work, the top 2 lines go dead. Not enough dump and forecheck when skill/passing attack isn't working. When your 4th line is your only offense like last night, that's a problem. 

Let's not forget this - this team is 7 games divorced from a coach who was fired because almost exactly this problem. We will need to wait to see this message sink in.

 

As for Chytil, I agree that his development is just not where you'd expect it to be. I think him projecting as a 3C even is fine, but he's not even a good one today and I don't know that I'm ready to wait for it to happen any longer. Another guy with the tools but none of the brains, same problem as Gauthier. 

What to do is a different story. Ultimately I land on Phil's point that slow rolling his trade does nothing to his trade value since he is still young. Nobody is going to balk at him in 2 seasons even because he's too old for 24 if they're interested in him. His line with Blais and Laf is going to be fine as a 3rd line, and if we find an upgrade that we think can help us in that slot for a cup run, then yeah you pull the trigger there. 

[Phil]

37 minutes ago, josh said:

I don't disagree on your perspective on Chytil. I disagree on the timing. 

We can't be blaming him for scoring issues when Zibanejad and Panarin are quiet. And we can't blame him for defensive issues when... well, the defense.

I'm the first to bring up his career high 23 points after 4 seasons, but I'm not forcing a trade, and any trade has to be a legit and immediate upgrade to the current roster.

That's why I'm saying do Nino for Clutterbuck type deal. Imagine if Marcus Foligno was a center.

[Phil]

39 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Still a Quinn hangover; if the cross ice tape to tape passes don't work, the top 2 lines go dead. Not enough dump and forecheck when skill/passing attack isn't working. When your 4th line is your only offense like last night, that's a problem. 

No disagreement but that still doesn't explain away Chytil's mediocre NHL progress.

[josh]

36 minutes ago, Pete said:

100% agreed, but if you keep him in his current situation there's no way his value goes up... Everybody always says bread man makes everyone look better, we certainly saw that's not the case and it doesn't bode well for Chytil. I think a lot of scouts had their eyes on those games.

Scouts would have noticed how shitty panarin has played and how well Chytil looked playing with a first overall and a guy that played on the blues first line for a couple of games in the playoffs they year they won the cup. 

No one is getting chytil to be their immediate 1C. They'd expect him to grow into a 2C. 

I mean, look Strome and Zibanejad. That's exactly what other teams see. 

[josh]

6 minutes ago, Phil said:

No disagreement but that still doesn't explain away Chytil's mediocre NHL progress.

Dude. You were saying the exact opposite over the summer 

[Phil]

6 minutes ago, josh said:

Dude. You were saying the exact opposite over the summer 

About Chytil?

[josh]

Just now, Phil said:

About Chytil?

Yes. Pretty sure you kept mentioning his yearly increase in points per game

[Pete]

8 minutes ago, josh said:

Scouts would have noticed how shitty panarin has played and how well Chytil looked playing with a first overall and a guy that played on the blues first line for a couple of games in the playoffs they year they won the cup. 

No one is getting chytil to be their immediate 1C. They'd expect him to grow into a 2C. 

I mean, look Strome and Zibanejad. That's exactly what other teams see. 

Pretty decent points.

That said now that we have Zib and Strome its time to add Toews at 3C.

[josh]

2 minutes ago, Pete said:

Pretty decent points.

That said now that we have Zib and Strome its time to add Toews at 3C.

Maybe let's wait a few days after today's news. 

 

I've mentioned Toews before. With that actual salary being below 3m, @Phil mentioned another team retaining.

I think that's more of a deadline deal, though. And so would trading chytil. 

[Pete]

1 minute ago, josh said:

Maybe let's wait a few days after today's news. 

 

I've mentioned Toews before. With that actual salary being below 3m, @Phil mentioned another team retaining.

I think that's more of a deadline deal, though. And so would trading chytil. 

Fair.

Also don't understand the motivation to keep him at C. He's a wing. There's nothing about his game that will shine by keeping him in the middle.

[Phil]

3 minutes ago, josh said:

Yes. Pretty sure you kept mentioning his yearly increase in points per game

I mean, it's possible I've argued something about that in the past, but I've been pushing to move on from him for a little bit:

And I'm much less convinced of his upside as others:

 

[TwoMinutesForNothing]

He's a shooter, needs a playmaking winger.  He played well a couple games ago where he scored and his line put up both goals.  Now his line mates are about to be Blais and Goodrow.  How's that gonna work.  Preseason may not count, but his skills looked pretty good in the last game when he scored a hat trick.  If he had a winger the style of Zuc or somebody similar I think his numbers would look a lot better.    

I still see plenty of talent and don't want to trade him and end up being Ottawa in another version of the Zibanejad trade.  

[shestYORKin]

5 hours ago, Kevin said:

I've tried being patient with Chytil but he is creating a problem with this team.  The way this team is currently constructed, they need Chytil to provide offense.  Too often he coasts through games where he is just completely invisible.  He was given a chance with more talented players but so far it's amounted to 1 goal and 0 assists through 7 games.  Further, he's only managed a meager 13 shots during these games.  He is still suspect in the defensive zone, below average at the face-off dot, and too soft in the neutral zone and on the fore-check.  So what exactly is he if he isn't contributing offensively?  This is basically his 4th season as a Ranger.  I know he's still young but the improvement and consistency is still way off where he needs to be for this team.  I've never thought he was a center to begin with but maybe moving him over to wing allows him to create a little more offense?  His name has come up in the Toews/Kane thread and I would do a deal, centered around him, in a heartbeat for a real center or a more prolific scoring winger.

*Fixed it: “The way this team is currently constructed, they need Breadman to provide offense.  Too often lately he coasts through games where he is just completely invisible.”

of course we all know Panarin will sort it out and get on track while Chytil is a coin flip. but let’s not put the cart before the horse: if we’re bitching about coasting through games and the team needing someone to provide offense Breadman is the actual problem right now. after he’s good then you can make Chytil the problem all you want.

[josh]

39 minutes ago, Pete said:

Fair.

Also don't understand the motivation to keep him at C. He's a wing. There's nothing about his game that will shine by keeping him in the middle.

Funny. I said the same thing about Zibanejad playing the wing after he only had a few ES assists that one season.

Certainly a poor man's comparison. 

 

 

Mostly what I said all off-season - it's not chytil, necessarily,  it's that he's not dynamic or any different than Zibanejad or Strome. Which IS an issue. Spreading the skill and size will "mask" This (?) But the lines need to be set accordingly 

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

No disagreement but that still doesn't explain away Chytil's mediocre NHL progress.

It's not like he's had consistent line mates. That's an explanation. That and injuries.  He looked like he was turning a corner last season with Lafreniere and Gauthier before he got hurt. That line was never put back together.

The current line of Lafreniere- Chytil- Blais has some potential if it's given a few games. Odd they never went back to the barrel with Gauthier on that line.  

IMO, we've see 2 versions of Chytil. A confident version and a lost version. He's looking lost right now.  

[Kevin]

1 hour ago, shestYORKin said:

*Fixed it: “The way this team is currently constructed, they need Breadman to provide offense.  Too often lately he coasts through games where he is just completely invisible.”

of course we all know Panarin will sort it out and get on track while Chytil is a coin flip. but let’s not put the cart before the horse: if we’re bitching about coasting through games and the team needing someone to provide offense Breadman is the actual problem right now. after he’s good then you can make Chytil the problem all you want.

Bread's lack of production only exasperates the problem that is Chytil.  He is one soft backhand goal away from being pointless through 7.  Bread hasn't been good but he's a proven commodity.   Chytil is far from that.  My biggest issue with him is that he plays no role on this team.  The argument about line-mates is getting stale too.  At some point you'd like to see a center make his line-mates better and he's never done that.

I bet in practice, Chytil looks like the best player on the ice.  When the puck drops for real though, his brain doesn't seem to be able to keep up with his skill.  

[shestYORKin]

6 hours ago, Kevin said:

Bread hasn't been good but he's a proven commodity.   Chytil is far from that. 

exactly. we’re bashing other players while our top player isn’t producing here.

the Rangers don’t have a Chytil problem until they don’t have a Bread problem. 

this post isn’t necessarily wrong, it’s just premature. 

[Pete]

9 minutes ago, shestYORKin said:

exactly. we’re bashing other players while our top player isn’t producing here.

the Rangers don’t have a Chytil problem until they don’t have a Bread problem. 

this post isn’t necessarily wrong, it’s just premature. 

No...This is about a lack of development coming from Chytil and has nothing at all to do with Panarin. This isn't about the last 7 games. It's about a growth path where Chytil has had a handful of good games, but more often than not been ineffective or hurt. 

[Pete]

7 hours ago, josh said:

Funny. I said the same thing about Zibanejad playing the wing after he only had a few ES assists that one season.

Certainly a poor man's comparison. 

 

 

Mostly what I said all off-season - it's not chytil, necessarily,  it's that he's not dynamic or any different than Zibanejad or Strome. Which IS an issue. Spreading the skill and size will "mask" This (?) But the lines need to be set accordingly 

We're talking about Chytil though. He's not a center. 

[shestYORKin]

32 minutes ago, Pete said:

No...This is about a lack of development coming from Chytil and has nothing at all to do with Panarin. This isn't about the last 7 games. It's about a growth path where Chytil has had a handful of good games, but more often than not been ineffective or hurt. 

well turns out the OP is about the last *checks again* games

[Pete]

2 hours ago, shestYORKin said:

well turns out the OP is about the last *checks again* games

No it isn't. It has stats for the last 7 games, but read the whole post. It's about how it's his 4th season and lack of development and distinguishing himself. 

Edited October 27, 2021 by Pete

[RJWantsTheCup]

I really think the Rangers were planning on moving Chytil & Kravtsov in the off season as part of a major trade that fell through.