Long live the King Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 But, to be fair, the ?other? teams have that goaltending. Rinne, Hellebuyck, Fleury, Vasilevskiy and Holtby are all at the same level as Hank at his best. The fact is the ex Rangers crew at Tampa are all great supporting cast players but they don?t win championships without elite talent in front of them. Neither does a great goalie. Put guys like Stamkos, Kucherov and Hedman into those Rangers teams and they?d be very close to going all the way. I think you could also argue the Rangers never had a line like the Palat/Gourde/Point line during those runs.Hank is the best game 7 goalie ever. Rinne just got pulled in less than 11 minutes. Sent from my [device_name] using http://Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Completely agreed. It's like puck on a string with someone like Crosby. But your roster does still need to be competent to limit chances against. Just look at Edmonton. Not even a 100+ point McDavid could save them from Talbot. Yeah, of course, but if you’re giving me the option to start my team with Crosby + random tendy vs. Lundqvist + Zib, I’m taking Crosby every single time. If your roster is weak, your goalie can only do so much. A goalie’s game changing saves will eventually even out with bad goals and mediocre play in front of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 none of this matters when it comes to playoffs. Guys gotta show up. All of them. Guys get the superstar label when they show up when it means the most. Your 50-point Stepan could be your 1.3 ppg Toews during a run and you get the cup. Nash 10 points in 25 games Richards 12 in 25 Stepan 15 in 24 St Louis 15 in 25 Brassard 12 in 23 Zucc 13 in 25 If your top guys are scoring points, it allows the rest of the team to do what they do best, instead of trying to change their game to compensate for others. TB has a well built line up and guys can play to their ability.How anyone can say Hank didn't make a significant difference when this was the goal support he got, and the Rangers stroll racked up playoff wins, blows my mind. Sent from my [device_name] using http://Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 How anyone can say Hank didn't make a significant difference when this was the goal support he got, and the Rangers stroll racked up playoff wins, blows my mind. Sent from my [device_name] using http://Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Who said he didn’t make a difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Yeah, of course, but if you’re giving me the option to start my team with Crosby + random tendy vs. Lundqvist + Zib, I’m taking Crosby every single time. If your roster is weak, your goalie can only do so much. A goalie’s game changing saves will eventually even out with bad goals and mediocre play in front of him. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 How anyone can say Hank didn't make a significant difference when this was the goal support he got, and the Rangers stroll racked up playoff wins, blows my mind. Sent from my [device_name] using http://Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by TapatalkYea and moral of the story is it doesn't matter who your goalie is if you can't score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Yeah, of course, but if you’re giving me the option to start my team with Crosby + random tendy vs. Lundqvist + Zib, I’m taking Crosby every single time. If your roster is weak, your goalie can only do so much. A goalie’s game changing saves will eventually even out with bad goals and mediocre play in front of him. This isnt a fair comparison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 This isnt a fair comparison Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 This isnt a fair comparison Positional value is. The marginal utility of a top goalie compared to an average goalie isn't that much of a difference. Really over the course of a season, are we taking about 5 or 6 goals, may be the difference of 4/5 points in the standings. You can get a competent goalie on the open trade market every year. The difference between Cosby and Zibs or other 1/2 centers is much bigger and more impactful. That's may be 20+ goals difference and 7-10 points in the standings(readily admit this is a well-considered guess). Somebody somewheRe already has or will do something like game share/wins over replacement value like baseball has. Spare what ever happens with Tavares, those top end centers do not shake free and teams do not trade them. Under a hard cap becomes even more obvious how much more valuable they are. Consider PP time, PK time and those points in the game you may double shift THAT GUY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Respecttheblue Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 What Tampa's success says about the Rangers is a simple answer: with an elite talent or two (Stamkos/Kucherov and Hedman), the Rangers, not the Lightning, would be Cup favorites. Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk But, to be fair, the ?other? teams have that goaltending. Rinne, Hellebuyck, Fleury, Vasilevskiy and Holtby are all at the same level as Hank at his best. The fact is the ex Rangers crew at Tampa are all great supporting cast players but they don?t win championships without elite talent in front of them. Neither does a great goalie. Put guys like Stamkos, Kucherov and Hedman into those Rangers teams and they?d be very close to going all the way. I think you could also argue the Rangers never had a line like the Palat/Gourde/Point line during those runs. Yea and moral of the story is it doesn't matter who your goalie is if you can't score. I see it much the same way as all three of y'alls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thes5 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Fair points all around, but the fact is that it is REALLY tough to bottle the formula. The Rangers were very close against the Kings and if our best players played their best, they would have lifted the Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodka Drunkenski Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Reminds me of the 94 Rangers with all the ex oilers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LONG LONG LONG TIME FAN Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Canucks in '94 were #7 seed and took the NYR, with all their talent & playoff experience to 7 games, before losing 3-2 @ MSG. Playoffs are a complete crap shoot; just ask the Pens, Predators, Sharks et al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 You can’t compare positions with ranking them in that form. More C’s play than goalies do. But for discussion purposes, if Crosby is on your roster instead of _____, 2 things are highly in your favor: 1. A much higher percentage of scoring a goal 2. A much high percentage the other team won’t have the puck. I’d rather have Crosby and fuckin Tokarski over Lundqvist and Zibs or Stepan. I mean, I agree. My point is just that it's impossible to say that hte gap between X and Y center is bigger than the gap between X and Y goalie. Also, Crosby isn't a particularly good possession player, fwiw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodka Drunkenski Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 I could be reading it completely wrong but his Corsi says otherwise? I can't believe I went against my morals and just brought Corsi into the conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 No one gives a shit about Crosby's possession stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Why? Can't bring up Crosby, one of the top players of all time, as a scoring comparison to Lundqvist. There are not going to be any goalies you take over the top 10 offensive players in league history, is all I'm saying. I'll usually take the scorer over the goalie, though. Sundin or Lundqvist, I take Lundqvist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodka Drunkenski Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 No one gives a shit about Crosby's possession stats. So mean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 I could be reading it completely wrong but his Corsi says otherwise? I can't believe I went against my morals and just brought Corsi into the conversation. His Corsi relative to his OZS hasn't been particularly good the last two years. In 2012 he was the best possession player in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliveIn94 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Crosby had some turnovers in the Washington series, but he also drove play when he had the puck. More positive than negative there. Sent from my [device_name] using http://Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Can't bring up Crosby, one of the top players of all time, as a scoring comparison to Lundqvist. There are not going to be any goalies you take over the top 10 offensive players in league history, is all I'm saying. I'll usually take the scorer over the goalie, though. Sundin or Lundqvist, I take Lundqvist. I didn’t. Someone else did. Fwiw, I’d take a lot of centers + avg goalie over Lundqvist + Stepan or Zibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrowningPI Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 Hank is the best game 7 goalie ever. Rinne just got pulled in less than 11 minutes. Sent from my [device_name] using http://Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by TapatalkLunqvist sucks. There's the plain truth. Sent from my [device_name] using http://Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrowningPI Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 How anyone can say Hank didn't make a significant difference when this was the goal support he got, and the Rangers stroll racked up playoff wins, blows my mind. Sent from my [device_name] using http://Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by TapatalkRaanta had a shit defense and put up great numbers. Lunqvist is a shit overpaid pantiwaste. Sent from my [device_name] using http://Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodka Drunkenski Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 I might take you more seriously if you could actually spell Lundqvist correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrowningPI Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 I might take you more seriously if you could actually spell Lundqvist correctly.My apologies, I used the word list and thought it would actually have his name correct. Sent from my [device_name] using http://Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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