article: What the Lightning?s Success Says About the New York Rangers

[4EverRangerFrank]

I was on NHL Sirius radio the other day after a CAPS fan called all excited to play TBL.

 

"RangerFrank in NY calling. First of all, CAPS fans must be excited that the Rangers are FINALLY out of the playoffs after having eliminated you from Round 2 over the years. Enjoy your few minutes in the sun! The NY Rangers southern affiliate team also known as the Lightening will rock your world. Anyway, I don't really care who wins as long as it is any team other than the Capitols."

 

WAS proved me wrong last night, but there is plenty of hockey left to play.

[Parsley]

BUST

 

 

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[Niko]

Game 7 of the ECF is still something. Granted, McD and Girardi were -2 in game 7, the former rangers overall had a good play off run and could be going to the SCF if they got better goaltending tonight.

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

Game 7 of the ECF is still something. Granted, McD and Girardi were -2 in game 7, the former rangers overall had a good play off run and could be going to the SCF if they got better goaltending tonight.

 

Imagine if this was us. Trading away two good prospects, a 1st and a conditional 2nd and not making the SC. Would not be "still something". Especially how embarrassing they got knocked out being shutout for over 2 games. Kinda remind me of the Conference final in 2015 when we got shutout in the last two home games.

[Parsley]

Imagine if this was us. Trading away two good prospects, a 1st and a conditional 2nd and not making the SC. Would not be "still something". Especially how embarrassing they got knocked out being shutout for over 2 games. Kinda remind me of the Conference final in 2015 when we got shutout in the last two home games.

 

Yup.

 

 

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[BrooksBurner]

Good. Now we dont have to hear about south Rangers anymore this year.

 

Looks like even after putting up a PPG pace to finish the regular season with TB, JT Miller still found a way to play like garbage in the playoffs.

[Vodka Drunkenski]

Imagine if this was us. Trading away two good prospects, a 1st and a conditional 2nd and not making the SC. Would not be "still something". Especially how embarrassing they got knocked out being shutout for over 2 games. Kinda remind me of the Conference final in 2015 when we got shutout in the last two home games.

 

Must spread some rep

[phillyb]

Imagine if this was us. Trading away two good prospects, a 1st and a conditional 2nd and not making the SC. Would not be "still something". Especially how embarrassing they got knocked out being shutout for over 2 games. Kinda remind me of the Conference final in 2015 when we got shutout in the last two home games.

 

Karma. Lol

[Respecttheblue]

Imagine if this was us. Trading away two good prospects, a 1st and a conditional 2nd and not making the SC. Would not be "still something". Especially how embarrassing they got knocked out being shutout for over 2 games. Kinda remind me of the Conference final in 2015 when we got shutout in the last two home games.

 

Yes, very much so. Felt like we'd seen this movie before.

Worse still they got physically manhandled as well as offensively stifled. If you're Tampa, you almost have to take a semi-rebuild pill like we did. The answer they paid for was not the answer.

 

What emerges for me is that defense and toughness still has a role in winning Conference and SC finals, and if your lineup is not willing to pay the full price of winning up and down, top to bottom, you might as well whistle Dixie, because someone with the equivalent talent level who wants it more is going to wrestle it out of your hands.

 

Our rebuild is just at the beginning, but as we go along, we have to make sure they folks we have in place by the time we contend are not wusses (I'm not talking about fighting; I'm saying its not enough to have oodles of skill/talent, you have to be wide awake all the time, confident, want it so bad, have resolve, determination, grit, and willingness to go far, far above and beyond to get the ultimate prize— those are qualities over and above skill that seem essential to me as we rebuild — it sounds almost as impossible to put that all together as winning a Stanley Cup, doesn't it).

 

If I am going to add a disclaimer it's that I have not seen enough of the Golden Knights to really know what they are made of, do they have an overwhelm of talent that makes what I just wrote irrelevant? (and/or do they have that level of grit and sacrifice already) Either way I guess we'll see?).

[phillyb]

Yes, very much so. Felt like we'd seen this movie before.

Worse still they got physically manhandled as well as offensively stifled. If you're Tampa, you almost have to take a semi-rebuild pill like we did. The answer they paid for was not the answer.

 

What emerges for me is that defense and toughness still has a role in winning Conference and SC finals, and if your lineup is not willing to pay the full price of winning up and down, top to bottom, you might as well whistle Dixie, cost someone with the equivalent talent level who wants it more is going to wrestle it out of your hands.

 

Our rebuild is just at the beginning, but as we go along, we have to make sure they folks we have in place by the time we contend are not wusses (I'm not talking about fighting, I'm saying its not enough to have oodles of skill/talent, you have to be wide awake all the time, confident, want it so bad, have resolve, determination, grit, and willingness to go far, far above and beyond to get the ultimate prize— those are qualities over and above skill that seem essential to me as we rebuild — it sounds almost as impossible to put that all together as winning a Stanley Cup, doesn't it).

If I am going to add a disclaimer it's that I have not seen enough of the Golden Knights to really know what they are made of, do they have an overwhelm of talent that makes what I just wrote irrelevant. I guess we'll see?).

 

Speed, talent, and a huge desire to win. Some of those guys definitely go to the dirty areas.

[zman]

Imagine if this was us. Trading away two good prospects, a 1st and a conditional 2nd and not making the SC. Would not be "still something". Especially how embarrassing they got knocked out being shutout for over 2 games. Kinda remind me of the Conference final in 2015 when we got shutout in the last two home games.

 

Whole third period was just giving me flashbacks of 2015. Down 2-0, and can't even generate any offense. the caps shut them DOWN. it was kind of karma in my eyes, they did it to us, and then it happened to them. And in 2015, the Rangers went for it then too, just like TB did this year.

[siddious]

Imagine if this was us. Trading away two good prospects, a 1st and a conditional 2nd and not making the SC. Would not be "still something". Especially how embarrassing they got knocked out being shutout for over 2 games. Kinda remind me of the Conference final in 2015 when we got shutout in the last two home games.

 

Agreed for the most part but TB still got McD and Miller, two guys who are going to be serviceable for a number of seasons after this one if not just entering their prime. We traded for St. Louis and Eric Staal at our deadlines lol

[ThirtyONE]

Agreed for the most part but TB still got McD and Miller, two guys who are going to be serviceable for a number of seasons after this one if not just entering their prime. We traded for St. Louis and Eric Staal at our deadlines lol

 

Two guys who are going to need to get paid.

 

And we got further with St. Louis than they did with 5 of our players.

[Parsley]

MSL trade looks like a win more and more with each passing year as Cally puts up garbage numbers on that miserable contract.

 

MSL (and Richards) brought leadership to this team that this team hasn?t been able to find since their departures.

 

I loved that trade from the onset and even more to this day.

 

 

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[Sod16]

MSL trade looks like a win more and more with each passing year as Cally puts up garbage numbers on that miserable contract.

 

 

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Forget about Cally, he wasn't the major part of the trade. It was giving up two firsts for a 38 year old guy who had put his GM in an untenable position by demanding a trade to the Rangers and only the Rangers.

[Kreid_or_die]

Forget about Cally, he wasn't the major part of the trade. It was giving up two firsts for a 38 year old guy who had put his GM in an untenable position by demanding a trade to the Rangers and only the Rangers.

 

anyone know who those 1sts turned into?

[Giacomin]

you have to be wide awake all the time, confident, want it so bad, have resolve, determination, grit, and willingness to go far, far above and beyond to get the ultimate prize— those are qualities over and above skill that seem essential to me as we rebuild — it sounds almost as impossible to put that all together as winning a Stanley Cup, doesn't it).

 

Talent can put you in the position to win. Yet, as you note, many other ingredients are necessary just to get to the finals. Yeah it sounds impossible and you didn't even mention coaching, team balance, opposition matchups, injuries, players at the right point of their career, etc.

 

The stuff you mentioned (in bold) covers the broader category of... call it --- Individual and Team Character and Makeup. This is not just a critical element of success in the major leagues, but is a common element of success in most every pursuit. Be it careers or projects or other endeavors that require some type of investment, the successful usually have the right makeup and strong character traits.

 

Passion, work ethic, determination, thriving under pressure, desire and aptitude to constantly improve, leadership, focus, willingness to sacrifice, attitude, ability to see an executable path to your goals and on and on. A large volume of these enables potential to be realized. It is witnessed in the execution of the little things, consistently. After talent and skill, these are the characteristics good organizations seek. Whether for the Rangers or the Giants or the team managing a particular software project.

 

Finding players loaded with these attributes can be the hardest thing to get right since one really has to spend a lot of time with someone in different situations to get a sufficient impression. Sure, some guys jump out at you immediately or have so many glowing character references its unmistakable, but overall it is not typically quick or easy to assess character. Especially challenging when you are dealing with teenagers.

 

When you identify superior character you should covet it. These are often the guys who exceed expectations and deliver in important situations. Justin Williams scored clutch playoff goals often, not because he was fortunate or had great strength and skill. Beyond speed, Hagelin is a hellacious forechecker and defensive nuisance because he is a ball of determination, a puck battler and as tough as Lenny Dykstra w/o the crazy. He is able to amp up his focus and passion for those things in the playoffs. Patrick Kane, among the most skilled in the game, practices his skills harder than most anyone, including extensive work in the off season. Hank and Fleury, two very different personalities, both leaders and winners of many of their team's biggest games, did so because they possess these attributes in spades. These are just a few contemporary examples. As you were saying, if you want to win it all, find these winning competitors and keep them, while in their prime.

 

If I am going to add a disclaimer it's that I have not seen enough of the Golden Knights to really know what they are made of, do they have an overwhelm of talent that makes what I just wrote irrelevant. I guess we'll see?).

 

Vegas is a good example of why your broader definition of toughness (which I called character) is important and interesting. I watched all their playoff games and they were clearly physically smaller than their big playoff opponents that tried to run them out of the building. The first two series they hung tough w/o using Reaves much. Instead they used speed, effort and tenaciousness up and down the lineup, to deal. They willingly banged bodies and fought back, but also avoided dumb retaliations. Overall, they force mistakes, hound you, focus on the little things, stay patient and disciplined and keep coming with extra effort on O and D. Their players are focused on team first, believe in each other, have a chip, something to prove, listen to their coach, sacrifice their body, and developed a can-do, winning mentality.

 

And that chip goes all the way to the top. Their coach was put on a taxi moments after being fired, the GM was canned for not being able to advance to the conf finals.

[Giacomin]

Respecttheblue, a final thought. You obviously hit on a pet peave of mine. Basically, a mistake people make too often in simplifying their evaluations.

 

You hear some say that player X's production can be replaced easily by another 35 point player. Or losing that 3rd line D specialist is no big deal, they are easier to find than Geico commercials. Except their analysis missed that the guy did more than meets the eye and brought value beyond what some simple statistics reveal.

 

For instance, he made everyone on his line better and reach their potential. Or motivated the whole team in the lockerroom, or when the team was struggling. Or was able to score series winning goals in tight spots, not just a reg season goals against the Sabres and Isles. Or was able to shutdown Crosby in the playoffs, while others struggled to contain him.

 

Bottom line, do not devalue the not so obvious elements that play a role in winning when you are up against the best competition.

[Respecttheblue]

Respecttheblue, a final thought. You obviously hit on a pet peave of mine. Basically, a mistake people make too often in simplifying their evaluations.

 

You hear some say that player X's production can be replaced easily by another 35 point player. Or losing that 3rd line D specialist is no big deal, they are easier to find than Geico commercials. Except their analysis missed that the guy did more than meets the eye and brought value beyond what some simple statistics reveal.

 

For instance, he made everyone on his line better and reach their potential. Or motivated the whole team in the lockerroom, or when the team was struggling. Or was able to score series winning goals in tight spots, not just a reg season goals against the Sabres and Isles. Or was able to shutdown Crosby in the playoffs, while others struggled to contain him.

 

Bottom line, do not devalue the not so obvious elements that play a role in winning when you are up against the best competition.

 

What did I devalue? I am not copping to the allegation that I devalued anything, yet, LOL.

 

Please -- work with me -- I think we are in agreement. The list of attributes we might value is beyond toughness and character is beyond the scope of my reply on that subject.

I just have a major league day job and can't read or write essays anymore, because I have to do that all day and sometimes half the night.

 

But I hoped I encompassed some of "it," (bad word "it," can mean just about anything, lol,) at some point, in the vague and general term "talent."

 

Here's an example or two ...Stepan ... while seemingly infuriatingly lackadaisical and predictable in his later NYR years, had a crap ton of talent and I wouldn't call him soft either, just infuriatingly lackadaisical and not aggressive and spontaneous enough in those last years. But still very productive. But what I valued, for a while was his ability to shutdown and disrupt opponents with a subtle well placed stick -- often causing turnovers. Gaborik had that knack, too. Nash as well, they could do with a poke and positioning what would take others a thunderous hit. Jesper fast is another who I value that way.

 

So they all have their role. But when the negatives start to outweigh the positives, or more precisely, when the requisite leaning forward (damn I hate that term) aggression, chip on the shoulder, fire, grit, URGENCY, ( yeah that!) fast thinking, fast moving, and the hackneyed term "battle level" isn't there, a player becomes something of a "passenger" or a kasper the friendly ghost.

 

Again, I don't know Vegas, and maybe they have an "overwhelm of talent," which I think was the term I used ... meaning talent in all its dimensions, including disruption and hockey IQ, that will outmaneuver Washington's talent and grit. (personally I hope not - I really can get behind this Washington team and its combo of talent and character and sacrifice, very old school in a way).

 

To me at least, this is going to be one of the more interesting SCFs in years — I hope it's not one-sided. I hope there are not too many hidden injuries already that might subvert it.

 

But ... if Vegas wins, I will be so pissed that the NHL gifted it a shortcut to a cup. IDGAF whether or not its newbie team pickins' from other teams might have been as bountiful as St Louis's or the Islanders ... if they win a cup I want a 1st rounder for every team that contributed for the next 31 years!! That's a joke, of course, but secretly it's how I would feel if they won.

[Future]

anyone know who those 1sts turned into?

Nothing.

 

The Lightning traded down twice and drafted a bunch of scrubs (Dominik Mason, Jon MacLeod, Mitchell Stephens, Anthony Cirelli might be decent) and then traded the 7th back to NYR.

[Respecttheblue]

Speed, talent, and a huge desire to win. Some of those guys definitely go to the dirty areas.

 

Thanks Philly b, I'll look for that.

 

I don't know how this series will play out because I've seen so little of the LVGK, but on the surface-level I find it very appealing.

 

However, if Vegas wins, which their momentum suggests they might, I will be a very disgruntled camper, lol.

[Vodka Drunkenski]

I don?t think you can call Cirelli a scrub, at least not yet.

[Future]

I don’t think you can call Cirelli a scrub, at least not yet.

Hah yea I edited. I forgot he had a pretty good run this year.

[phillyb]

MSL trade looks like a win more and more with each passing year as Cally puts up garbage numbers on that miserable contract.

 

MSL (and Richards) brought leadership to this team that this team hasn?t been able to find since their departures.

 

I loved that trade from the onset and even more to this day.

 

Wore my MSL shirt earlier in the week.

 

I don?t think you can call Cirelli a scrub, at least not yet.

 

Hah yea I edited. I forgot he had a pretty good run this year.

 

Agreed. I really like what I saw from this kid in the few games I was paying attention to.

[Phil]

I'd do the MSL trade over again every single time.

 

 

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