article: What the Lightning?s Success Says About the New York Rangers

[phillyb]

I'd do the MSL trade over again every single time.

 

 

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Why? To get out of Cally?s new contract?

Or the cup run?

Or both or something else?

 

I don?t disagree at all, I?m just curious. For me, it?s more the cup run, his mom dying, that fucking beaut of a snipe short side on Price. That shit still gives me chills.

[josh]

I'd do the MSL trade over again every single time.

 

 

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You wouldnt want Callahan making $8m per season on the 4th line???

He hustles!

 

 

*Callicorn*

[Long live the King]

anyone know who those 1sts turned into?

 

Nothing.

 

The Lightning traded down twice and drafted a bunch of scrubs (Dominik Mason, Jon MacLeod, Mitchell Stephens, Anthony Cirelli might be decent) and then traded the 7th back to NYR.

 

For Tamp they turned into nothing, but the actual picks were made by the Isles. Ho-Sang in 2014 and Beauvillier in 2015. Both #28.

[Giacomin]

What did I devalue? I am not copping to the allegation that I devalued anything, yet, LOL.

 

Please -- work with me -- I think we are in agreement. The list of attributes we might value is beyond toughness and character is beyond the scope of my reply on that subject.

I just have a major league day job and can't read or write essays anymore, because I have to do that all day and sometimes half the night.

 

But I hoped I encompassed some of "it," (bad word "it," can mean just about anything, lol,) at some point, in the vague and general term "talent."

 

Here's an example or two ...Stepan ... while seemingly infuriatingly lackadaisical and predictable in his later NYR years, had a crap ton of talent and I wouldn't call him soft either, just infuriatingly lackadaisical and not aggressive and spontaneous enough in those last years. But still very productive. But what I valued, for a while was his ability to shutdown and disrupt opponents with a subtle well placed stick -- often causing turnovers. Gaborik had that knack, too. Nash as well, they could do with a poke and positioning what would take others a thunderous hit. Jesper fast is another who I value that way.

 

So they all have their role. But when the negatives start to outweigh the positives, or more precisely, when the requisite leaning forward (damn I hate that term) aggression, chip on the shoulder, fire, grit, URGENCY, ( yeah that!) fast thinking, fast moving, and the hackneyed term "battle level" isn't there, a player becomes something of a "passenger" or a kasper the friendly ghost.

 

Again, I don't know Vegas, and maybe they have an "overwhelm of talent," which I think was the term I used ... meaning talent in all its dimensions, including disruption and hockey IQ, that will outmaneuver Washington's talent and grit. (personally I hope not - I really can get behind this Washington team and its combo of talent and character and sacrifice, very old school in a way).

 

To me at least, this is going to be one of the more interesting SCFs in years — I hope it's not one-sided. I hope there are not too many hidden injuries already that might subvert it.

 

But ... if Vegas wins, I will be so pissed that the NHL gifted it a shortcut to a cup. IDGAF whether or not its newbie team pickins' from other teams might have been as bountiful as St Louis's or the Islanders ... if they win a cup I want a 1st rounder for every team that contributed for the next 31 years!! That's a joke, of course, but secretly it's how I would feel if they won.

 

Ha ha, you did not devalue anything. I enjoyed your post and it got me thinking. I'm in concurrance with you, then went off an wrote an essay. I'll try to limit myself from now on. I'm swamped as well.

 

Maybe I should have said,

"Bottom line, I agree with Blue, do not devalue the not so obvious elements that play a role in winning when you are up against the best competition." Hope that clears that up.

 

As for Vegas, what I'm saying is that they may not be big, but they are bringing a wave of those ingredients throughout the entire lineup. Yes, they have more talent then people give them credit for, but they also have all these other things going for them.

 

My attitude with Vegas has been to hope they do well. However, there might be some justice for the fans around the league if Vegas doesn't win it all. Besides it will give Vegas something to continue to strive to acheive. The story may be just as good if they lose to the Caps in 7. The one caveat is it would be great to see the Fleury story end magically and ironically. The McPhee story is kinda cool either way.

[Phil]

;929151]Why? To get out of Cally?s new contract?

Or the cup run?

Or both or something else?

 

I don?t disagree at all, I?m just curious. For me, it?s more the cup run, his mom dying, that fucking beaut of a snipe short side on Price. That shit still gives me chills.

 

Both. Callahan's contact promised to be a total fucking anchor and I loved every single thing about MSL as a Ranger, even if it happened too late in his career. Without him?or with Callahan, more specifically?they never make that run.

 

And ditto the OT goal. One of my favorite moments ever.

 

 

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[Vodka Drunkenski]

I still YouTube that goal from time to time

[phillyb]

Ha, I do too.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdz0dbh3_mY

[Fatfrancesa]

Tokarski

[Parsley]

Man do I miss that squad.

 

 

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[phillyb]

2014 Rangers are my life. I'll get over it eventually, but I fucking loved that team so much. I was living in PA at the time and went to like...10-12 games that season, including game 1 of the PHI series and game 3 of the SCF.

 

Not resigning Stralman was the beginning of the end for this squad, despite the 2015 run. FUCK, I MISS 2014.

[phillyb]

Ha, I do too.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdz0dbh3_mY

 

Holy shit, I just watched this again. I've never actually watched this play develop and fall apart. MTL (specifically Emelin and Desharnais) were fucking horrid on this play. It's no wonder that a 38yo vet finds himself open...in the right dot, with the puck, against a rookie goalie. Holy shit.

 

For those of you who play and coach, is my assessment correct?

The white jerseys are fucking terrible in this sequence, save for the chip behind the net by Emelin to two white jerseys (the two white jerseys didn't play it good/well/good).

[ThirtyONE]

Holy shit, I just watched this again. I've never actually watched this play develop and fall apart. MTL (specifically Emelin and Desharnais) were fucking horrid on this play. It's no wonder that a 38yo vet finds himself open...in the right dot, with the puck, against a rookie goalie. Holy shit.

 

For those of you who play and coach, is my assessment correct?

The white jerseys are fucking terrible in this sequence, save for the chip behind the net by Emelin to two white jerseys (the two white jerseys didn't play it good/well/good).

 

Yep. Lots going on here that's bad. Desharnais allows this to happen with a failed clear. I don't mind Emelin's failed clear because he was at least being pressured/checked on the play -- just proves the importance of a good forecheck.

 

The play that really bothers me is the two D just slamming the puck around the boards twice instead of making a pass.

 

*bothers is a loose term considering this is one of my favorite Ranger moments. MSL said this goal is the most memorable of his career.

[Pete]

Yep. Lots going on here that's bad. Desharnais allows this to happen with a failed clear. I don't mind Emelin's failed clear because he was at least being pressured/checked on the play -- just proves the importance of a good forecheck.

 

The play that really bothers me is the two D just slamming the puck around the boards twice instead of making a pass.

 

*bothers is a loose term considering this is one of my favorite Ranger moments. MSL said this goal is the most memorable of his career.

Did he say that in a Rangers fluff piece? I find that very hard to believe.

[ThirtyONE]

Did he say that in a Rangers fluff piece? I find that very hard to believe.

 

No I believe it was in an interview with Spitting Chiclets. Said there were a few goals in 2004 that he'll always remember but the fact that he went bar-down in OT in MSG makes it his favorite.

[Parsley]

That video half gives me wood and half makes me cry. :/

 

 

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[siddious]

MSL trade looks like a win more and more with each passing year as Cally puts up garbage numbers on that miserable contract.

 

MSL (and Richards) brought leadership to this team that this team hasn?t been able to find since their departures.

 

I loved that trade from the onset and even more to this day.

 

 

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We didn?t win the cup and gave up future assets. He was good here but in the end this team didn?t get what they wanted out of the trade (a cup) and gave up other assets besides Cally. I don?t care about giving up cally- just wish we got more for it.

 

On the other hand TB can service the guys we gave them for a number of seasons or flip them for more assets, we couldn?t do that with MSL or Staal (which was my main point). Not to mention choosing Boyle over stralman fiasco which wasn?t a trade but still hurts.

 

 

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[Long live the King]

We didn’t win the cup and gave up future assets. He was good here but in the end this team didn’t get what they wanted out of the trade (a cup) and gave up other assets besides Cally. I don’t care about giving up cally- just wish we got more for it.

 

On the other hand TB can service the guys we gave them for a number of seasons or flip them for more assets, we couldn’t do that with MSL or Staal (which was my main point). Not to mention choosing Boyle over stralman fiasco which wasn’t a trade but still hurts.

 

 

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If that was the barometer for success then 98% of deadline deals are failures and you'd think teams would stop trading for rentals.

[Parsley]

Seriously. It?s pretty simple when comparing NYR deadline trades...

 

Rangers failure trade: E. Staal

Rangers non-failure trade: MSL

 

 

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[josh]

Rangers failure trade: O. Jokinen

Rangers non-failure trade: Brassard

[siddious]

If that was the barometer for success then 98% of deadline deals are failures and you'd think teams would stop trading for rentals.

 

Well thats the roll of the dice that teams take. And I agree, I think deadline deals are usually pretty dumb. Very rarely does the last minute addition who has no chemistry with the team end up being a good addition. If I was GM I would stay away from these with rare exceptions.

 

That is also why I am saying at least TB gets more than 1 playoff run out of the players we sent them. We can agree/disagree on whether or not MSL was a good trade, im not saying it was terrible or it screwed the franchise- all I am saying is that I wish we had gone a different route. TB is doing it right. The rangers did not, hence the predicament they are in now.

[Slobberknocker]

Imagine if this was us. Trading away two good prospects, a 1st and a conditional 2nd and not making the SC. Would not be "still something". Especially how embarrassing they got knocked out being shutout for over 2 games. Kinda remind me of the Conference final in 2015 when we got shutout in the last two home games.

 

agreed, however that is the risk you take when your'e going all in. that being said I'm not shedding any tears for Tampa. they really didnt give up a ton and kept their young core intact. they will continue to be a thorn in our side.

[andysly5]

Holy shit, I just watched this again. I've never actually watched this play develop and fall apart. MTL (specifically Emelin and Desharnais) were fucking horrid on this play. It's no wonder that a 38yo vet finds himself open...in the right dot, with the puck, against a rookie goalie. Holy shit.

 

For those of you who play and coach, is my assessment correct?

The white jerseys are fucking terrible in this sequence, save for the chip behind the net by Emelin to two white jerseys (the two white jerseys didn't play it good/well/good).

 

The unrelenting puck pursuit by NYR on that play is what stood out for me. We haven't seen that type of speed and determination at MSG in awhile. Kind of reminds my of Vegas.

[Long live the King]

Well thats the roll of the dice that teams take. And I agree, I think deadline deals are usually pretty dumb. Very rarely does the last minute addition who has no chemistry with the team end up being a good addition. If I was GM I would stay away from these with rare exceptions.

 

That is also why I am saying at least TB gets more than 1 playoff run out of the players we sent them. We can agree/disagree on whether or not MSL was a good trade, im not saying it was terrible or it screwed the franchise- all I am saying is that I wish we had gone a different route. TB is doing it right. The rangers did not, hence the predicament they are in now.

 

Ummmm, its actually the same exact route. St. Louis had a year left on his deal. We traded Cally, a 1st, and a conditional 2nd. It's literally almost identical, but in reverse, to the McD trade.

[Pete]

Ummmm, its actually the same exact route. St. Louis had a year left on his deal. We traded Cally, a 1st, and a conditional 2nd. It's literally almost identical, but in reverse, to the McD trade.

Except McD is 27 and not 39.

[Long live the King]

Except McD is 27 and not 39.

 

True enough...well McD was 28 and Marty was 38.

 

But ages aside, at the time of the respective trades, one player was 10th in the league in scoring with 29 goals and 60 points in 61 games, while the other was dealing with the latest injury in his injury riddled career.