[friedman] Rangers Are Thinking "More and More" About Keeping Kreider

Anyone can drop off. I'm a bit more concerned with Strome dropping off than Kreider.

 

Everyone does drop off. Playing style, historical record, etc. are all strong indicators of the likelihood of rate. Like I said yesterday, Kreider is, to me, the kind of player who will probably be worth his price tag for the duration of a five-year deal. Four years is ideal, but five is still digestible. It's six, seven, and eight that kill you.

The bolded narrative is tired and holds no water anymore. Panarin is having a career year on the worst team he's ever been on...With Strome. Fast is having a Fast year. With Panarin. It's about time to accept that the two players have chemistry and act accordingly.

 

Even of you signed Strome for 4 years and then let him go, that makes Chytil the 2nd line center at 24.

 

Regarding ADA, that's just math. Team has more D prospects than forward prospects. You trade from a position of strength. Move ADA for a LW.

 

Regarding Z and Chytil being the top 2 centers for "quite some time", Zib is probably one of my favorite players but that guy is 27 and imagining him being a top 1-2 center into his mid thirties is just unrealistic. He'll probably be the third line center by the middle of his next deal.

 

Strome's career average has always been better than Fast, so the Fast point is only so applicable. Fast also is not a center, and a center is in a better position to accrue garbage assists playing with Panarin.

 

I don't agree you hand out a long term deal to a guy after 48 games playing with an incredibly hot Panarin. That's not a big enough sample size by any stretch. Just watching the games we can see how creative and utterly dominant Panarin is by himself. There's a 25 point gap between Panarin and Strome for a reason. If Strome was that big of a reason for Panarin's success, the gap would be far less.

 

We also don't know if Strome is good with 3 or 4 years. He might want 5 or take arbitration and go UFA. Big pass at 5.

 

Term is everything here, and that's what I would judge my decision on the most. Kreider @ 5 years over Strome @ any term all day long. Kreider @ 7 years, good bye.

Everyone does drop off. Playing style, historical record, etc. are all strong indicators of the likelihood of rate. Like I said yesterday, Kreider is, to me, the kind of player who will probably be worth his price tag for the duration of a five-year deal. Four years is ideal, but five is still digestible. It's six, seven, and eight that kill you.

 

I don't mind longer than 5 so long as the AAV flattens out. If you look at something like 8 years, 46m split as such:

 

8, 8, 8

4.5, 4.5, 4.5, 4.5, 4

 

It's almost two separate contracts - one that gets him his fair market value, and one that protects him in case that changes/he gets hurt.

 

I'm not upset at all if that's where he lands and we end up signing him. That's a 5.75M cap hit, buys an extra year of security and "costs" him probably just under 2m versus the open market

Strome's career average has always been better than Fast, so the Fast point is only so applicable. Fast also is not a center, and a center is in a better position to accrue garbage assists playing with Panarin.

 

I don't agree you hand out a long term deal to a guy after 48 games playing with an incredibly hot Panarin. That's not a big enough sample size by any stretch. Just watching the games we can see how creative and utterly dominant Panarin is by himself. There's a 25 point gap between Panarin and Strome for a reason. If Strome was that big of a reason for Panarin's success, the gap would be far less.

 

We also don't know if Strome is good with 3 or 4 years. He might want 5 or take arbitration and go UFA. Big pass at 5.

 

Term is everything here, and that's what I would judge my decision on the most. Kreider @ 5 years over Strome @ any term all day long. Kreider @ 7 years, good bye.

 

Awesome. No one suggested we do. 4 years isn't "long term".

 

Also, not buying Strome being better positoned to "collect garbage assists". That's literally fabrication and exactly the same thing people said about Nylander and Jagr. Then Nyls left and Jags production dropped 20 points as he was playing with a 21 year old Dubinksy. Exactly the situation you advocate creating with Chytil. If anything, Strome allows you to give Chytil ample time to develop properly. He's not even have a great year for a third line center and you want him to be the 2nd line center? He's pacing 30 points and you think he should get bumped to face the D that Panarin faces nightly?

 

That's not development.

 

There's still no good reason that anyone has shown to not sign Strome for 4 years at ~$5.5. Might he want more? Sure. Kreider might want more. ADA might want more. We can't predict who wants more, we're discussing ideals here. If you want to go your route, you want Krieder at $8 million for 5 years over Strome at $5.5 for 5? That'd make less than zero sense.

I don't mind longer than 5 so long as the AAV flattens out. If you look at something like 8 years, 46m split as such:

 

8, 8, 8

4.5, 4.5, 4.5, 4.5, 4

 

It's almost two separate contracts - one that gets him his fair market value, and one that protects him in case that changes/he gets hurt.

 

I'm not upset at all if that's where he lands and we end up signing him. That's a 5.75M cap hit, buys an extra year of security and "costs" him probably just under 2m versus the open market

 

That would be terrible. Having Kreider here until he's 37 would be one of the worst ideas ever.

That would be terrible. Having Kreider here until he's 37 would be one of the worst ideas ever.

 

Better than here til 36 with a higher cap hit.

That would be terrible. Having Kreider here until he's 37 would be one of the worst ideas ever.

 

I'm in agreement with you, Pete. I don't think Kreider is a part of the solution here. It's pretty much that simple. I don't see him being a piece of the puzzle over the next 5 years that lands a Stanley Cup on Broadway, either. I still think his best value to us is to rebuild further with what we can get in return for him; a #1 and a solid prospect is ideal, and supposedly there are teams that will bite....I say, let's see who steps up and pays the piper.

Awesome. No one suggested we do. 4 years isn't "long term".

 

Also, not buying Strome being better positoned to "collect garbage assists". That's literally fabrication and exactly the same thing people said about Nylander and Jagr. Then Nyls left and Jags production dropped 20 points as he was playing with a 21 year old Dubinksy. Exactly the situation you advocate creating with Chytil. If anything, Strome allows you to give Chytil ample time to develop properly. He's not even have a great year for a third line center and you want him to be the 2nd line center? He's pacing 30 points and you think he should get bumped to face the D that Panarin faces nightly?

 

That's not development.

 

There's still no good reason that anyone has shown to not sign Strome for 4 years at ~$5.5. Might he want more? Sure. Kreider might want more. ADA might want more. We can't predict who wants more, we're discussing ideals here. If you want to go your route, you want Krieder at $8 million for 5 years over Strome at $5.5 for 5? That'd make less than zero sense.

 

I never said Kreider at 8M lol. Da fuq? Nowhere has it been mentioned that it'd cost more than 6.5-7.

 

And you still haven't answered if you'd go 5 or more years for Strome?

 

Where did I say Chytil could be a top 2 center right now? I expect him to be maybe after 1 or 2 more seasons. Signing Strome long term means he's blocking that from happening, and we shouldn't pay Strome to be a 3rd line 35 pt center. Moving Strome to wing has unknown results so not sure that's a viable option either long term.

 

The Nylander/Jagr example is terrible and you know it. Jagr was 35 when Nylander left. Good luck proving it was Nylander and not a gradual regression because of age. In fact, the regression was already there with Nylander as Jagr went from 123 -> 96 even with Nylander.

Better than here til 36 with a higher cap hit.

 

Sure, lung cancer is mildly better than colon cancer, too.

I don't mind longer than 5 so long as the AAV flattens out. If you look at something like 8 years, 46m split as such:

 

8, 8, 8

4.5, 4.5, 4.5, 4.5, 4

 

It's almost two separate contracts - one that gets him his fair market value, and one that protects him in case that changes/he gets hurt.

 

I'm not upset at all if that's where he lands and we end up signing him. That's a 5.75M cap hit, buys an extra year of security and "costs" him probably just under 2m versus the open market

 

Can't do that. Year-to-year variance rules.

I never said Kreider at 8M lol. Da fuq? Nowhere has it been mentioned that it'd cost more than 6.5-7.

 

And you still haven't answered if you'd go 5 or more years for Strome?

 

Where did I say Chytil could be a top 2 center right now? I expect him to be maybe after 1 or 2 more seasons. Signing Strome long term means he's blocking that from happening, and we shouldn't pay Strome to be a 3rd line 35 pt center. Moving Strome to wing has unknown results so not sure that's a viable option either long term.

 

The Nylander/Jagr example is terrible and you know it. Jagr was 35 when Nylander left. Good luck proving it was Nylander and not a gradual regression because of age. In fact, the regression was already there with Nylander as Jagr went from 123 -> 96 even with Nylander.

Oh my. So much wrong here. Where to begin with this one.

I never said Kreider at 8M lol. Da fuq? Nowhere has it been mentioned that it'd cost more than 6.5-7.

No one said more than $5.5/4 for Strome, but you keep acting like it's "long term" and what not. You also JUST SAID you'd take Kreider 5 years over Strome for 5 at any price.

 

And you still haven't answered if you'd go 5 or more years for Strome?

Read above read back. Just read. It's there. No more than $5.5, no more than 4 years. Said it plenty.

Where did I say Chytil could be a top 2 center right now? I expect him to be maybe after 1 or 2 more seasons. Signing Strome long term means he's blocking that from happening, and we shouldn't pay Strome to be a 3rd line 35 pt center. Moving Strome to wing has unknown results so not sure that's a viable option either long term.

Don't make me go back and pull the quotes where you said we need to try Chytil at center now so we don't have to pay Strome. Ya said it. Own it.

 

The Nylander/Jagr example is terrible and you know it. Jagr was 35 when Nylander left. Good luck proving it was Nylander and not a gradual regression because of age. In fact, the regression was already there with Nylander as Jagr went from 123 -> 96 even with Nylander.

Ya, it's terrible because you said so. Sure.

 

Can I prove the drop was due to Nylander? No, but the evidence suggests it. The drop from 05-06 - 06-07 was more likely due to:

1. Shoulder injury

2. 1 less PP per game

3. Overall drop in scoring

4. Guys like Cheechoo also went from 56g to 30 something and 93 points to 60 something, Joe Thorton beat Jagr by 1 point with 124 in 05-06 and dropped to 114, then 96.

 

Hard to argue significant drop off with Jagr when he left the NHL at a .86 P/G and came back after 3 seasons to .73 P/G.

 

But hey, do you, my man.

Oh my. So much wrong here. Where to begin with this one.

No one said more than $5.5/4 for Strome, but you keep acting like it's "long term" and what not. You also JUST SAID you'd take Kreider 5 years over Strome for 5 at any price.

 

Read above read back. Just read. It's there. No more than $5.5, no more than 4 years. Said it plenty.

Don't make me go back and pull the quotes where you said we need to try Chytil at center now so we don't have to pay Strome. Ya said it. Own it.

 

Ya, it's terrible because you said so. Sure.

 

Can I prove the drop was due to Nylander? No, but the evidence suggests it. The drop from 05-06 - 06-07 was more likely due to:

1. Shoulder injury

2. 1 less PP per game

3. Overall drop in scoring

4. Guys like Cheechoo also went from 56g to 30 something and 93 points to 60 something, Joe Thorton beat Jagr by 1 point with 124 in 05-06 and dropped to 114, then 96.

 

Hard to argue significant drop off with Jagr when he left the NHL at a .86 P/G and came back after 3 seasons to .73 P/G.

 

But hey, do you, my man.

 

Re: Kreider at any price - oh yeah? Pretty sure I said:

 

At 5 years I'd go up to 7M. Easy.

 

Re: Strome - you still haven't answered what you'd do if he doesn't want a 4 year deal.

 

Re: Chytil - trying him doesn't mean he's ready, but we don't know until we try it.

 

Re: Jagr/Nylander - right, so you can't prove anything. Still a bad example, and a 15 year old one at that.

The bolded narrative is tired and holds no water anymore. Panarin is having a career year on the worst team he's ever been on...With Strome. Fast is having a Fast year. With Panarin. It's about time to accept that the two players have chemistry and act accordingly.

 

Even of you signed Strome for 4 years and then let him go, that makes Chytil the 2nd line center at 24.

 

Regarding ADA, that's just math. Team has more D prospects than forward prospects. You trade from a position of strength. Move ADA for a LW.

 

Regarding Z and Chytil being the top 2 centers for "quite some time", Zib is probably one of my favorite players but that guy is 27 and imagining him being a top 1-2 center into his mid thirties is just unrealistic. He'll probably be the third line center by the middle of his next deal

 

.

I like Strome but I do think Panarun had played a MAJOR part in his good season, plus he has cooled off significantly recently even with Panarin. As for Kreider I know you have never been a fan of his and that?s perfectly fine but I?d much rather have Kreider than Strome..not even close lol

Panarin has played a major role in why Strome's points are as high as they are. But that's not an indictment on Strome as a player. If anything, it's proof of his chemistry with Panarin, who is locked up for another six years. The scary part of being this productive is what it might cost to keep him far more than the idea of keeping him on merit.

Playing with Panarin has led to something clicking in Stromes game. His off the puck movement is great. It shows on the PP and when Panarin isn't on the ice. Though Panarin has obviously inflated Stromes numbers, so.the Rangers need to pay for Strome, and not the stats.

Playing with Panarin has led to something clicking in Stromes game. His off the puck movement is great. It shows on the PP and when Panarin isn't on the ice. Though Panarin has obviously inflated Stromes numbers, so.the Rangers need to pay for Strome, and not the stats.

 

I have no issue keeping Strome if they pay him like a 3rd line center. A year or maybe 2 years from now, if all goes the way it's supposed to (fingers crossed), Chytil will be our 2nd line center.

 

The guy's GOTTA learn how to win a faceoff though!!!

Playing with Panarin has led to something clicking in Stromes game. His off the puck movement is great. It shows on the PP and when Panarin isn't on the ice. Though Panarin has obviously inflated Stromes numbers, so.the Rangers need to pay for Strome, and not the stats.

 

Bingo.

I have no issue keeping Strome if they pay him like a 3rd line center. A year or maybe 2 years from now, if all goes the way it's supposed to (fingers crossed), Chytil will be our 2nd line center.

 

The guy's GOTTA learn how to win a faceoff though!!!

 

Or how not to take dumb penalties. If they keep him, hopefully both can be corrected.

Or how not to take dumb penalties. If they keep him, hopefully both can be corrected.

 

Good point!!!

Playing with Panarin has led to something clicking in Stromes game. His off the puck movement is great. It shows on the PP and when Panarin isn't on the ice. Though Panarin has obviously inflated Stromes numbers, so.the Rangers need to pay for Strome, and not the stats.

 

Bingo.

 

Right. If they were paying for Strome's production, and he finishes the season the way he's started it, he's an $8 million player.

Right. If they were paying for Strome's production, and he finishes the season the way he's started it, he's an $8 million player.

 

$8 mil? And you want to get rid of C.K. Oh boy.

$8 mil? And you want to get rid of C.K. Oh boy.

RS is is on pace to finish with about 25 more points than CK.

 

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$8 mil? And you want to get rid of C.K. Oh boy.

 

 

Strome, 26 pacing 75 points.

 

Krieder, 29 pacing 55 points.

 

So, yea, if you're paying both based on 1 year...Fuck it, you don't understand the cap anyway. I don't have the time or the crayons to do this.

If Strome wins the conn smythe on a cup winning rangers team id give him 8m

Strome, 26 pacing 75 points.

 

Krieder, 29 pacing 55 points.

 

So, yea, if you're paying both based on 1 year...Fuck it, you don't understand the cap anyway. I don't have the time or the crayons to do this.

 

I can get you those big grip crayons if that helps.