Seravalli Trevor Zegras' Name Is 'Out There'

[Pete]

7 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

Source: “Trust me bro”

 

I don’t see how a 22 y.o. multi-60+ pt center, is somehow devaluing Miller. Why is a 40 pt dman with room to grow worth more than a 60 pt center with room to grow? Centers are historically the most valuable position.

I'm cutting off the rest of your post because none of it matters.

 

I never said anything that you're saying above, you said Miller isn't a premier player, but that's not true. Just because you don't think he is, doesn't mean NHL teams don't think he is. And if they don't already, while he's only 23. 

 

Some people have a blind spot... They watch a player every single night and constantly pick them apart. There's not a player you were rooting for at some that you haven't flipped on. It's almost like you don't understand that sometimes good players play bad hockey sometimes. 

 

And then 10 games will go by with good hockey, and a bad game will happen and you won't miss a chance to get on the bully pulpit and say "trust me bro, this guy sucks".

 

Understand the phrase body of work, and Miller's body of work is much more impressive than you give him credit for, and much more impressive than Zegras, despite all the stick tricks. 

 

Edited January 10 by Pete

[BrooksBurner]

9 minutes ago, Pete said:

I'm cutting off the rest of your post because none of it matters.

 

I never said anything that you're saying above, you said Miller isn't a premier player, but that's not true. Just because you don't think he is, doesn't mean NHL teams don't think he is. And if they don't already, while he's only 23. 

 

Your problem is you watch a player every single night and you constantly pick them apart. There's not a player you were rooting for that you haven't flipped on. It's almost like you don't understand that sometimes good players play bad hockey. 

Classifying Miller as a premier player either means you are operating off a bad definition of what a premier player is, or it means you are seriously overvaluing what he is in relation to top players around the league. In either case, you’re wrong. Can he get there? Maybe. 

 

I’ll ignore the typical personal pot shots from you. Debate the points with legit arguments, rather than resorting to ad hom and gaslighting. There’s an example in this very conversation of flipping on a player (Chytil) I have rooted for when nobody else did. I flipped on Panarin too. Baseless accusation.

Edited January 10 by BrooksBurner

[Pete]

2 hours ago, BrooksBurner said:

Classifying Miller as a premier player either means you are operating off a bad definition of what a premier player is, or it means you are seriously overvaluing what he is in relation to top players around the league. In either case, you’re wrong. Can he get there? Maybe. 

 

I’ll ignore the typical personal pot shots from you. Debate the points with legit arguments, rather than resorting to ad hom and gaslighting. There’s an example in this very conversation of flipping on a player (Chytil) I have rooted for when nobody else did. I flipped on Panarin too. Baseless accusation.

Why don't you show me all the other 40 point defenseman who don't get power play time? 

[BrooksBurner]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

Why don't you show me all the other 40 point defenseman who don't get power play time? 

I wouldn't concede that KAM is a 40 point defenseman until he strings together more than 1 season of doing it. He's not pacing 40 right now. He also stinks on the PP. He's not a PP QB. So I don't see room for much growth there. I didn't want to get in those weeds when it's not the point.  The Rangers need a younger long term top 6 center. They have no organizational depth. Zegras is a high value trade chip given production, age, and contract. Miller is probably the Rangers' highest value trade chip worthy of netting such a player. Chytil or Kakko isn't getting it done, and doubtful attaching basic assets like a 1st round pick gets your foot in the door relative to what other teams will offer. You could make an argument Lafreniere. I'd consider it, but I'm trading Miller well before Lafreniere. I favor talent upfront more than talent on the blue line, especially when a team already has Adam Fox long term.

Edited January 10 by BrooksBurner

[Ozzy]

I actually think K' would be a good "2nd defenseman" on PP2.  He's got offensive skill, and really good shot.  Add in the fact that he actually plays defense, so if we get caught on an odd man on PP2 that only usually gets 30 seconds or so, he's agood insurance policy back there.

 

I'm not sure where all the K' hate comes from, but this kid's a good player that's Just getting his wings on defense.  he's 23 years old, and looks like he's going to be a solid NHL player for a long time.

 

He fucks up now and again, but I see his progress, and like where he's headed.  I dunno, call me crazy but I like this kid's future.

Edited January 10 by Ozzy

[BrooksBurner]

26 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

I actually think K' would be a good "2nd defenseman" on PP2.  He's got offensive skill, and really good shot.  Add in the fact that he actually plays defense, so if we get caught on an odd man on PP2 that only usually gets 30 seconds or so, he's agood insurance policy back there.

 

I'm not sure where all the K' hate comes from, but this kid's a good player that's Just getting his wings on defense.  he's 23 years old, and looks like he's going to be a solid NHL player for a long time.

 

He fucks up now and again, but I see his progress, and like where he's headed.  I dunno, call me crazy but I like this kid's future.

 

It's absolutely not hate to say he's worth about the same as Trevor Zegras.

[Albatrosss]

1 minute ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

It's absolutely not hate to say he's worth about the same as Trevor Zegras.

my only issue with trading Miller is that it leaves a hole on the second pairing we have no one to fill it with.  Gustaffson is not an option for me, he's been mediocre at best.  

[Ozzy]

Just now, BrooksBurner said:

 

It's absolutely not hate to say he's worth about the same as Trevor Zegras.

 

I'm not a Zegras guy though, my man.  Maybe because he's on the Duck, but I don't see the effort or fire in this kid.  I've been checking out the west coast teams more now becuase it's too cold to be out hoisting beers til 3am, so I've been checking them out.  Zegras has had a very poor season.  Why would we wanna give up a guy like K'?

 

Zegras could be had for less, I would hope.  If not, I'd hold my cards a little longer.  My question is, if this kid is that good, why are they shopping him?  He's young, and should be a building block for that team's future, no?

 

Kinda weary of "gifts" at this point.  That's all.

[BrooksBurner]

6 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

 

I'm not a Zegras guy though, my man.  Maybe because he's on the Duck, but I don't see the effort or fire in this kid.  I've been checking out the west coast teams more now becuase it's too cold to be out hoisting beers til 3am, so I've been checking them out.  Zegras has had a very poor season.  Why would we wanna give up a guy like K'?

 

Zegras could be had for less, I would hope.  If not, I'd hold my cards a little longer.  My question is, if this kid is that good, why are they shopping him?  He's young, and should be a building block for that team's future, no?

 

Kinda weary of "gifts" at this point.  That's all.

 

I get you're not a fan of Zegras, but it doesn't mean he doesn't have good value and it's hate for Key. I'm not a fan of JT Miller, but if folks wanted to send Lafreniere packing in a deal for him even if I wouldn't (as an example), I wouldn't call it Lafreniere hate?

[Pete]

2 hours ago, BrooksBurner said:

I wouldn't concede that KAM is a 40 point defenseman until he strings together more than 1 season of doing it. He's not pacing 40 right now. He also stinks on the PP. He's not a PP QB. So I don't see room for much growth there. I didn't want to get in those weeds when it's not the point.  The Rangers need a younger long term top 6 center. They have no organizational depth. Zegras is a high value trade chip given production, age, and contract. Miller is probably the Rangers' highest value trade chip worthy of netting such a player. Chytil or Kakko isn't getting it done, and doubtful attaching basic assets like a 1st round pick gets your foot in the door relative to what other teams will offer. You could make an argument Lafreniere. I'd consider it, but I'm trading Miller well before Lafreniere. I favor talent upfront more than talent on the blue line, especially when a team already has Adam Fox long term.

You don't know what he is on the power play because he's never gotten enough time there. 

[BrooksBurner]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

You don't know what he is on the power play because he's never gotten enough time there. 

I have seen his skill set enough to have an educated opinion, and to why he gets passed over when there’s an opening…by three different coaches.

[Pete]

20 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

I have seen his skill set enough to have an educated opinion, and to why he gets passed over when there’s an opening…by three different coaches.

He got PP2 time under GG. But as we know PP2 gets 20 seconds a power play time per.

 

As far as you evaluating his skill set...source: "trust me bro". 

 

[BrooksBurner]

5 minutes ago, Pete said:

He got PP2 time under GG. But as we know PP2 gets 20 seconds a power play time per.

 

As far as you evaluating his skill set...source: "trust me bro". 

 

Failed usage. Anyone is entitled to give their opinion. You on the other hand matter-of-factly claimed to have an inside scoop on what the whole league thinks

[Br4d]

12 hours ago, Sharpshooter said:

He did. LBI, but no timetable yet, or even what happened. I guess they're not really shopping him, but still listening to offers.

 

Ankle of some sort this time around.  Went into the boards skate first and the skate caught.

[Pete]

46 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

Failed usage. Anyone is entitled to give their opinion. You on the other hand matter-of-factly claimed to have an inside scoop on what the whole league thinks

You need to expand your consumption of hockey content beyond the Rangers, if you're even absorbing Rangers content that isn't just your own opinion. 

 

Any time Miller's name is brought up it's followed by something akin to "rising star". 

 

I'd take what I hear and read from others around the league over your very, very limited "talent evaluation skills". 

 

[fletch]

5 hours ago, Ozzy said:

I actually think K' would be a good "2nd defenseman" on PP2.  He's got offensive skill, and really good shot.  Add in the fact that he actually plays defense, so if we get caught on an odd man on PP2 that only usually gets 30 seconds or so, he's agood insurance policy back there.

 

I'm not sure where all the K' hate comes from, but this kid's a good player that's Just getting his wings on defense.  he's 23 years old, and looks like he's going to be a solid NHL player for a long time.

 

He fucks up now and again, but I see his progress, and like where he's headed.  I dunno, call me crazy but I like this kid's future.

About the Miller hate, my sense is it’s from inconsistent play, particularly in the defensive zone as a defenseman when your first job is to help prevent goals.  You should expect some inconsistency from 23 year olds, so I don’t have a strong take on what Miller is going to be at 28 years old.  Defensemen are rare that are so productive in the offensive end that teams will put up with deficiencies in the defensive zone.   Offense goes on hot and cold streaks, so defensive liabilities are one extended cold streak from the coaches bad side.

[BrooksBurner]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

You need to expand your consumption of hockey content beyond the Rangers, if you're even absorbing Rangers content that isn't just your own opinion. 

 

Any time Miller's name is brought up it's followed by something akin to "rising star". 

 

I'd take what I hear and read from others around the league over your very, very limited "talent evaluation skills". 

 

 

I see you're still going with ad hom. 

 

You're taking criticism of athletes too personally. It's not that deep.

[Ozzy]

14 hours ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

I get you're not a fan of Zegras, but it doesn't mean he doesn't have good value and it's hate for Key. I'm not a fan of JT Miller, but if folks wanted to send Lafreniere packing in a deal for him even if I wouldn't (as an example), I wouldn't call it Lafreniere hate?

 

JT, to me is a different player.  He's a center, which is a point where we're weak, and Laff is a LW, which we have a metric ass load of talent on the way up.  That would be more of a "hockey Trade" to me.  I see Miller as a star on the rise, and he's also a defenseman, where we're kinda thin after him.  SO dealing from that area makes me leary.

 

I don't even like trading Jones, because after him, we have very little in the cupboard.  Maybe if Big Ben was healthy, we could do that easier but whatever.

 

As far as Zegras as a player though.  I've seen his game, and even though I've seen maybe 5 games or so of his, I can say this:  No Fire.

 

He's been sleep-walking this season and there's just no jump to his game.  He should be carrying that team like Panarin is doing for us.  No doubt the guy has talent, but apparently the Ducks don't see him as a part of their future for some reason.

I just don't see trading a future star for a problem...which is what I see Zegras as.  If you haven't, watch a Ducks game when he gets back from injury; I think you'll see what I'm talking about....just zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Pete]

11 hours ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

I see you're still going with ad hom. 

 

You're taking criticism of athletes too personally. It's not that deep.

I'm fine with criticism of athletes when it's based on facts and not on "evaluation skills" from people who have no evaluation skills. 

[BrooksBurner]

45 minutes ago, Pete said:

I'm fine with criticism of athletes when it's based on facts and not on "evaluation skills" from people who have no evaluation skills. 

Great. Then you should be fine with my evaluations 

 

You criticize whoever the hell you want too. You only seem to get super uptight about select players, who apparently get a cloak of immunity to criticism. Miller has warts in his game. I don’t see improvement in the presence of those warts. I think they will follow him around and that will hinder him from being an actual premier player (not the loose definition of premier player you have in a world where Miller is worth one). You don’t have to agree, but you also don’t have to take the criticism so personally to resort to ad hom…for the third time.

[BrooksBurner]

2 hours ago, Ozzy said:

 

JT, to me is a different player.  He's a center, which is a point where we're weak, and Laff is a LW, which we have a metric ass load of talent on the way up.  That would be more of a "hockey Trade" to me.  I see Miller as a star on the rise, and he's also a defenseman, where we're kinda thin after him.  SO dealing from that area makes me leary.

 

I don't even like trading Jones, because after him, we have very little in the cupboard.  Maybe if Big Ben was healthy, we could do that easier but whatever.

 

As far as Zegras as a player though.  I've seen his game, and even though I've seen maybe 5 games or so of his, I can say this:  No Fire.

 

He's been sleep-walking this season and there's just no jump to his game.  He should be carrying that team like Panarin is doing for us.  No doubt the guy has talent, but apparently the Ducks don't see him as a part of their future for some reason.

I just don't see trading a future star for a problem...which is what I see Zegras as.  If you haven't, watch a Ducks game when he gets back from injury; I think you'll see what I'm talking about....just zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

But why the Laf hate? 

[Pete]

24 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

Great. Then you should be fine with my evaluations 

 

You criticize whoever the hell you want too. You only seem to get super uptight about select players, who apparently get a cloak of immunity to criticism. Miller has warts in his game. I don’t see improvement in the presence of those warts. I think they will follow him around and that will hinder him from being an actual premier player (not the loose definition of premier player you have in a world where Miller is worth one). You don’t have to agree, but you also don’t have to take the criticism so personally to resort to ad hom…for the third time.

Do you have mirrors in your house? I suggest you use them. You don't want ad hom, don't do ad hom. Problem solved. Be the change you want to see in the world.

 

Regarding Miller, my point is my takes is based on what I see what what people are saying. Yours is based on what you see alone and therefore is flawed from jump.

 

Even premier players have warts.

Edited January 11 by Pete

[BrooksBurner]

36 minutes ago, Pete said:

Do you have mirrors in your house? I suggest you use them. You don't want ad hom, don't do ad hom. Problem solved. Be the change you want to see in the world.

 

Regarding Miller, my point is my takes is based on what I see what what people are saying. Yours is based on what you see alone and therefore is flawed from jump.

 

Even premier players have warts.

 

Calling a definition loose in a debate is not an example of ad hom.

 

If Miller is a premier player, what is McDavid? McKinnon? Hughes? Pastrnak? Ultra premier?

[RJWantsTheCup]

Zegras is overrated in my opinion

[Cash or Czech]

He's outperforming Kakko.