Center Problems

[BrooksBurner]

Bonino is the worst player on the team. He stinks and cannot be in the starting lineup for a run. He’s absolutely not top 9, and the 4th is figured out. Every player on the 4th line is substantially better. He’s got to be the odd man out. It has been stated numerous times they cannot rely on Chytil coming back this year, and not just coming back, but staying back. The team clearly needs a center.

 

Straight rentals on expiring contracts:

 

• Elias Lindholm
• Sean Monahan
• Jack Roslovic
• Thomas Novak
• Jason Dickinson
• Travis Boyd
• Alex Wennberg

 

I won’t even keep going. The last few feel like a reach to even bother. Lindholm is the obvious chicken dinner here, but he’s going to cost an arm and a leg. The rest don’t move any needles.

 

If you don’t look at strictly rentals, and you get a guy with another year of term left, you get access to a few more decent names.

 

Options under contract through next season:

 

• Mikael Granlund
• Nick Bjugstad
• Yanni Gourde
• Christian Dvorak

 

For players who are signed for longer, the price would become pretty steep for any legitimately good players with an attractive term left. It probably costs the team a high end prospect to swing that kind of deal. I don’t think anyone wants to lose a Perreault or Othmann.

So…what are they going to do? The price has to be paid somewhere.

Edited December 20, 2023 by BrooksBurner

[Phil]

When you factor in the price and role, I find it hard to believe there's a better option here than Monahan. He's doing really well on a bad team and is a free agent. The last thing they need is to pick up additional salary going into future years.

[Scott]

@Keirik raging boner alert with just the thought of Gourde making his was to Broadway. 

[Br4d]

No rental.  Find a guy with some term left that fits into the need and make a real trade.  Trocheck is a legitimate 2nd line center and paid as such and there is no need to rationalize keeping him there on any basis but actual talent, which he possesses.

 

The trade asset to acquire the actual player could even be another 1st round pick since you are not renting for a change but getting somebody you play to hold down 3C for a few years.  The rentals are killing the Rangers future because they are attached to no future value at all.

 

Alternately there are multiple options:

 

1. Recall somebody and slot them on the 4th line for a real tryout.  Move Goodrow up to line 3 as the center.  He is paid like a line 3 center and maybe the way to resolve the conflict is to let him earn his pay.

 

2.  Switch Goodrow and Bonino.  Ditto from line 1 above.

 

3.  3C may seem like the big hole at the moment but it's really still 1RW.  Make that trade and then you can put Jonny Brodzinski for a try at 3C with Wheeler at 3RW.

 

 

[siddious]

Just now, Br4d said:

No rental.  Find a guy with some term left that fits into the need and make a real trade.  Trocheck is a legitimate 2nd line center and paid as such and there is no need to rationalize keeping him there on any basis but actual talent, which he possesses.

 

The trade asset to acquire the actual player could even be another 1st round pick since you are not renting for a change but getting somebody you play to hold down 3C for a few years.  The rentals are killing the Rangers future because they are attached to no future value at all.

 

Alternately there are multiple options:

 

1. Recall somebody and slot them on the 4th line for a real tryout.  Move Goodrow up to line 3 as the center.  He is paid like a line 3 center and maybe the way to resolve the conflict is to let him earn his pay.

 

2.  Switch Goodrow and Bonino.  Ditto from line 1 above.

 

3.  3C may seem like the big hole at the moment but it's really still 1RW.  Make that trade and then you can put Jonny Brodzinski for a try at 3C with Wheeler at 3RW.

 

 

I agree with most of this I think I’d rather see a top RW come in. 

[Pete]

Backlund would have been nice but he signed an extension... I also don't love the idea of bringing in a guy who's spent his entire career on one team. That never seems to really work out for us.

 

I wouldn't mind Monahan. The problem is Montreal is sniffing a playoff berth right now, so they really have a good amount of leverage to either keep him for a run, or trade him. Cost of acquisition would be high.

 

Don't really understand not flipping Goodrow and Bonino, TBH. 

[BrooksBurner]

7 minutes ago, Br4d said:

No rental.  Find a guy with some term left that fits into the need and make a real trade.  Trocheck is a legitimate 2nd line center and paid as such and there is no need to rationalize keeping him there on any basis but actual talent, which he possesses.

 

The trade asset to acquire the actual player could even be another 1st round pick since you are not renting for a change but getting somebody you play to hold down 3C for a few years.  The rentals are killing the Rangers future because they are attached to no future value at all.

 

Alternately there are multiple options:

 

1. Recall somebody and slot them on the 4th line for a real tryout.  Move Goodrow up to line 3 as the center.  He is paid like a line 3 center and maybe the way to resolve the conflict is to let him earn his pay.

 

2.  Switch Goodrow and Bonino.  Ditto from line 1 above.

 

3.  3C may seem like the big hole at the moment but it's really still 1RW.  Make that trade and then you can put Jonny Brodzinski for a try at 3C with Wheeler at 3RW.

 

 

Center is a pivotal and premium position. They lack serious depth. On the other hand, there’s wingers who they can still try to find a complimentary fit in the top 9. They haven’t even slotted Vesey up. There’s guys in Hartford who could get a peek. Are any of these options 1RWs? No, but they don’t necessarily need a 1RW if there’s other guys driving the lines in the top 9. The internal wing depth and options are better than Bonino, and they are better than whatever we’d have to shovel into the top 6 at center should a Zibby or Trocheck get banged up and miss even a game or two in a playoff series.

 

I’ve said in other threads about getting a flex C/W. Someone who can play both. If Chytil comes back, put him at center and flex that new player out to wing. I’m shying away from this idea, however, because it tampers with lines and chemistry. I think the move is to get a quality center and nip the problem in the bud. If Chytil comes back, he joins the options at wing. I’m just undecided about what quality of center to get.

[BrooksBurner]

4 minutes ago, Pete said:

Backlund would have been nice but he signed an extension... I also don't love the idea of bringing in a guy who's spent his entire career on one team. That never seems to really work out for us.

 

I wouldn't mind Monahan. The problem is Montreal is sniffing a playoff berth right now, so they really have a good amount of leverage to either keep him for a run, or trade him. Cost of acquisition would be high.

 

Don't really understand not flipping Goodrow and Bonino, TBH. 

Ah, I tried to eliminate guys with extensions. Missed checking Backlund. Removing him.

[Br4d]

I think part of the reason Laviolette doesn't want to take Goodrow off of line 4 is that line has become almost as dangerous as line 1 at even strength and they're doing it against the other team's top 2 lines in the OZ.  When you have a utility line that you don't mind putting in the OZ for a face-off because they might pin the other team's top line there for 40-45 seconds, well that's a rare thing.  It seems like they are used that way fairly often these days.

[RangersIn7]

Monahan, who is actually healthy for the first time in 5 years, would be a nice option 

[Pete]

33 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

Ah, I tried to eliminate guys with extensions. Missed checking Backlund. Removing him.

He would have been great as a 3C, I'm pretty sure he makes what egghead is making.

 

It would be a good use of LTIR, assuming Chytil isn't coming back this season. Then you figure out what to do with him over the summer. 

[Pete]

34 minutes ago, Br4d said:

I think part of the reason Laviolette doesn't want to take Goodrow off of line 4 is that line has become almost as dangerous as line 1 at even strength and they're doing it against the other team's top 2 lines in the OZ.  When you have a utility line that you don't mind putting in the OZ for a face-off because they might pin the other team's top line there for 40-45 seconds, well that's a rare thing.  It seems like they are used that way fairly often these days.

At this point I'd think a third line of Cuylle, Brodz and Edstrom/Kakko would be better than what's being rolled out right now with Bonino. 

 

Unfortunately I don't see Lavvy taking Bonino out of the lineup. His loyalty to certain players, which every coach is guilty of, is going to stop him from doing that. 

[Albatrosss]

2 minutes ago, Pete said:

At this point I'd think a third line of Cuylle, Brodz and Edstrom/Kakko would be better than what's being rolled out right now with Bonino. 

 

Unfortunately I don't see Lavvy taking Bonino out of the lineup. His loyalty to certain players, which every coach is guilty of, is going to stop him from doing that. 

bonino wins faceoffs.  he's one of two reasons the rangers' faceoff % is one of the best

[Valriera]

I actually don't think we have an issue at center at all. Bonino is not sexy but he blocks shots, wins faceoffs, and makes a play here and there. Consider him the 4C, because our "fourth" line is much more accurately a checking line. We have Brodzinski if we need in a pinch. Are we really getting much better than this? I don't buy it. 

 

The real issue on the team is that Blake Wheeler is our right wing on the first line. That's the hole to fix. Wheeler there is not serviceable at all, and unlike Bonino, who does his job even if particularly unexciting at it, Wheeler in that position drags the line down. If we're making a mid-year deal, it has to be to fill that hole. I don't think it needs to be for a stud name, a middle six winger would be totally fine. Vatrano is the picture of the person that needs to be in that spot for them to be effective, so we just need to find that player. 

 

Outside of that, the team's bottom six is not an issue I particularly worry about. 

[Long live the King]

I agree they need better 3c, but Bonino isn't coming out of the line up.  He wins draws and he's on of the top penalty killers.  Pitlick is the odd man out.

 

Trocheck has been real good, but I still like his game on a more Fiesta grinding line like the 3rd.  So with that Lindholm for the 2nd line is my first choice.  Monahan would be my 2nd choice.

[RangersIn7]

Bonino is five on your 4th line or as an extra forward.

 

That guy has played well for us thus far. Does all the little things you want out of a guy like him in that role.

Especially for couch cushion money. 

[Drew a Penalty]

36 minutes ago, Long live the King said:

I agree they need better 3c, but Bonino isn't coming out of the line up.  He wins draws and he's on of the top penalty killers.  Pitlick is the odd man out.

 

Trocheck has been real good, but I still like his game on a more Fiesta grinding line like the 3rd.  So with that Lindholm for the 2nd line is my first choice.  Monahan would be my 2nd choice.

 

More fiesta?

 

[Pete]

2 hours ago, Albatrosss said:

bonino wins faceoffs.  he's one of two reasons the rangers' faceoff % is one of the best

Okay. That's not a good enough reason when he's so bad at everything else. 

[Keirik]

 

He even has a history of playing with Goodrow and plays both C/RW  + 2 cups

[Albatrosss]

21 minutes ago, Pete said:

Okay. That's not a good enough reason when he's so bad at everything else. 

He’s not bad at everything else. He’s a pretty good PKer, blocks shots, etc. Pitlick should be the man out. 

[BrooksBurner]

Of the 458 forwards who have logged ice time this year:

 

Nick Bonino: 38.81 xGF% (#423), 36.3 CF% (#453)

Barclay Goodrow: 40.16 xGF% (#410), 38.93 CF% (#442)

 

This is what's behind our top 2 centers. Our center depth is ass. Bonino has won 13 more faceoffs than he's lost, so we should probably pump the brakes on him being some faceoff aficionado here that makes up for him clearly being the weakest link in the forward group by far. Goodrow is dead weight carried by Vesey, and to a lesser degree, Pitlick.

Edited December 21, 2023 by BrooksBurner

[BrooksBurner]

7 minutes ago, Keirik said:

 

He even has a history of playing with Goodrow and plays both C/RW  + 2 cups

 

I could definitely be convinced on Gourde, but he's not producing enough this year. He'd have to be cheap, or they'd have to retain half to make it worth our while.

[Keirik]

16 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

I could definitely be convinced on Gourde, but he's not producing enough this year. He'd have to be cheap, or they'd have to retain half to make it worth our while.

I don't think he's a world beater by any means and once we got Trocheck, i've been less interested in Gourde, but a playoff line of Vesey Gourde Goodrow is pretty trustworthy to me and really could be cooking with gas. Seattle stinks again after a year of smoke and mirrors last season so it's really hard to judge Gourde's season. 

[Albatrosss]

1 hour ago, BrooksBurner said:

Of the 458 forwards who have logged ice time this year:

 

Nick Bonino: 38.81 xGF% (#423), 36.3 CF% (#453)

Barclay Goodrow: 40.16 xGF% (#410), 38.93 CF% (#442)

 

This is what's behind our top 2 centers. Our center depth is ass. Bonino has won 13 more faceoffs than he's lost, so we should probably pump the brakes on him being some faceoff aficionado here that makes up for him clearly being the weakest link in the forward group by far. Goodrow is dead weight carried by Vesey, and to a lesser degree, Pitlick.

You just hate Bobin for his neck guard. 

[Long live the King]

2 hours ago, Drew a Penalty said:

 

More fiesta?

 

 

Yea.  Apparently they call him Trocho Cinco