The One Who Stayed Too Long

[RichieNextel305]

Another interesting one, and maybe needs some explaining, is Kovalev. We got him back in February 2003 and I remember the league being up in arms because Pittsburgh basically gave him away for us because we paid them. I remember the Islanders and Devils being hot after him and then we ended up with him for shit like Rico Fata. I don’t blame the Rangers for saying no. This is when Pittsburgh was broke and looked to be moving.

 

Anyway, we get him back for his second tour, he plays well down the stretch in 2002-2003, and then we go into the 2003-2004 season and he was just atrocious. The guy was getting booed out of MSG and it was tough to see. He absolutely refused to shoot the puck. His numbers were so, so bad that year and a lot of it was self-inflicted wounds. He was just fucking awful. A part of me always wished that he never came back because I loved Kovalev as a kid and that second tour left a bad taste in my mouth because he was so moody because of his bad play and the teams as a whole. We eventually dealt him to Montreal, where he found himself again, for Jozef Balej, who looked like a player but eventually got dealt and then suffered a career-ending injury. 
 

But yeah, I’ll add Kovalev to the list. I was good enough with his first tour here. I really did not need to see him getting booed out of MSG or growing to hate him the way I did during that miserable 2003-2004 season where he and the team were brutal.

Edited December 2, 2023 by RichieNextel305

[BrooksBurner]

51 minutes ago, MuddyInTheMiddle said:

Maybe I am misreading your post, but is there anything wrong with him turning into 3rd-4th liner who is really good in the corners and on the fore check that makes 1.5-2 million per year who puts up 20-30+ points per season?

 

I get the disappointment in that they didn't draft him with the 2nd overall pick to be a "grit guy"; but that is what he is right now. In reality we should have drafted a Bowen Byram, Trevor Zegras, Dylan Cozens, Mathew Boldy or even Kirby Dach who like Kakko was pretty much the consensus pick where he went and has under performed vs. his draft placement(just not as badly).

 

Personally, I'm over it and if after 5 seasons Kakko magically becomes Patrick Laine, I'll consider it finding money in the street. Otherwise why do we need to part company with a pick, if they fit a role and are cost contained, even though it's not the role we drafted them for?

Gritty isn’t really a description for Kakko though. He’s not gritty just because he’s fairly defensively responsible.

 

Anyway, it’s all a fair point about keeping him. I think it’s too soon to consider he tops out as a 3rd liner and that they should cut bait for a 3rd liner return. I am open to trading if he’s got teams who think that 2OA quality is in there. I wouldn’t pass up a 1st round pick for him at this stage.

[MuddyInTheMiddle]

45 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

Gritty isn’t really a description for Kakko though. He’s not gritty just because he’s fairly defensively responsible.

 

Anyway, it’s all a fair point about keeping him. I think it’s too soon to consider he tops out as a 3rd liner and that they should cut bait for a 3rd liner return. I am open to trading if he’s got teams who think that 2OA quality is in there. I wouldn’t pass up a 1st round pick for him at this stage.

Me neither; but it would have to be a top 15 pick, not a late 1st rounder.

Edited December 2, 2023 by MuddyInTheMiddle

[The Dude]

2 hours ago, RangersIn7 said:

It’s gonna play out like this 

You’re Megatron.

And he’s… got “The Touch”

Not you.

You clearly do not have “The Touch”

 

 

 

 

?

 

You said the Kakko on the Zibanejad line worked.  It didn't.  It produced nothing.  

 

As for "The Touch" . 

 

The Rangers are starting to look like this. They're Mark Wahlberg and John C Reilly asking for the magic from Kakko..

 

 

 

And in reality, "The touch" is actually-

 

 

 

 

"We look like assholes right now man.

[RangersIn7]

2 minutes ago, The Dude said:

 

?

 

You said the Kakko on the Zibanejad line worked.  It didn't.  It produced nothing.  

 

As for "The Touch" . 

 

The Rangers are starting to look like this. They're Mark Wahlberg and John C Reilly asking for the magic from Kakko..

 

 

 

And in reality, "The touch" is actually-

 

 

 

 

"We look like assholes right now man.

In terms of actual production, yeah. 
Metrics very good however.

 

Also… they were guaranteed a record deal… their shit was that fucking good. 
 

Poor start notwithstanding from Kakko, I felt like he’d have gotten going at some point this season

 

Now this season is a wash probably.

 

We will see what they do.

 

[The Dude]

23 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

In terms of actual production, yeah. 
Metrics very good however.

 

Also… they were guaranteed a record deal… their shit was that fucking good. 
 

Poor start notwithstanding from Kakko, I felt like he’d have gotten going at some point this season

 

Now this season is a wash probably.

 

We will see what they do.

 

The Rangers were guaranteed a "record deal" (star player)because they thought their "shit" (Kakko) was that good. 

 

But the reality is, their shit  (Kakko) isn't very good. Its actually "Feel my heat"...

 

 

But you pull for them, because theuye John C Reilly and Wahlberg.  They're trying and they believe.  

 

Feel feel feel feel feel.... Feel my heat. 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 2, 2023 by The Dude

[RangersIn7]

14 minutes ago, The Dude said:

The Rangers were guaranteed a "record deal" (star player)because they thought their "shit" (Kakko) was that good. 

 

But the reality is, their shit  (Kakko) isn't very good. Its actually "Feel my heat"...

 

 

But you pull for them, because theuye John C Reilly and Wahlberg.  They're trying and they believe.  

 

Feel feel feel feel feel.... Feel my heat. 

 

 

 

 

You don’t fuck with Chest and Brock

[Sod16]

15 hours ago, Pete said:

Point per game for the leafs and then 32 in 61 for the bruins... Definitely might have to walk that back.  He didn't stay too long, the team around him was shit. 

I have to walk that back on the basis of a grand total of 2 goals and 13 assists in 15 games for the Leafs?  Anyone who watched the Rangers closely from 97 to 2004 knows that Leetch was not the force he had been previously, and the team around him much of that time had pretty good personnel but underachieved. 

[Pete]

2 hours ago, Sod16 said:

I have to walk that back on the basis of a grand total of 2 goals and 13 assists in 15 games for the Leafs?  Anyone who watched the Rangers closely from 97 to 2004 knows that Leetch was not the force he had been previously, and the team around him much of that time had pretty good personnel but underachieved. 

Like I said, point per game for the Leafs. Were you expecting a goal per game for a defenseman? He was feeding McCabe one-timers all day long, to the point where McCabe called Leetch the best pastor he ever played with... Pretty impressive for a guy who "wasn't a force".

 

I know you think you're the only one who remembers the history of hockey, but if you want to cling to a bad take, go for it. We all do it. 

[mbob]

Chatter in the “one that got away” thread around young guys like Wright and Amonte in a cup run got me thinking, the worst part about this years injuries to Chytil and Kakko is they may have officially shifted to the stayed too long discussion. They could have been key trade pieces if deemed so by Lavi.  Also could have shown something too but just saying either one of them could have been this version of the Amonte trade for a final push to the cup.  
 

Hope I eat crow on these two, especially if Kakko recovers and gets it together.

 

 

Edited December 2, 2023 by mbob

[RangersIn7]

2 hours ago, mbob said:

Chatter in the “one that got away” thread around young guys like Wright and Amonte in a cup run got me thinking, the worst part about this years injuries to Chytil and Kakko is they may have officially shifted to the stayed too long discussion. They could have been key trade pieces if deemed so by Lavi.  Also could have shown something too but just saying either one of them could have been this version of the Amonte trade for a final push to the cup.  
 

Hope I eat crow on these two, especially if Kakko recovers and gets it together.

 

 

Or they could be the ones you trade and did well elsewhere 

[mbob]

4 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

Or they could be the ones you trade and did well elsewhere 

yes buy what I meant was the injuries seriously put a dent in coaches ability to evaluate, teach, and determine if moving one of them for this year was the move. Maybe I’m over thinking it. 

[RangersIn7]

1 minute ago, mbob said:

yes buy what I meant was the injuries seriously put a dent in coaches ability to evaluate, teach, and determine if moving one of them for this year was the move. Maybe I’m over thinking it. 

No

 

You aren’t overthinking 

 

But the best choice is usually run it back

[mbob]

Just now, RangersIn7 said:

No

 

You aren’t overthinking 

 

But the best choice is usually run it back

agree with these cards. Best case scenario for a trade would have been both playing somewhat well and a gut move. Now you have to run it back once healthy