Staple Peter Laviolette Keeps an Incredible Streak Going With the Rangers: 'He's Like a Great Chef'

[Br4d]

He had more professional goals by 21 than anybody on the Rangers roster.

 

There was always a good chance he'd find himself as his career progressed.  The guy we're watching right now does a lot of the things he did in Junior.  There should be more to come.

[Pete]

5 hours ago, Br4d said:

He had more professional goals by 21 than anybody on the Rangers roster.

 

There was always a good chance he'd find himself as his career progressed.  The guy we're watching right now does a lot of the things he did in Junior.  There should be more to come.

What a loaded statement. It's pretty much meaningless, because a lot of the Rangers best players weren't in the league at 21 because they were in college or overseas.

 

He shouldn't have been in the league before 21. 

 

I'm really happy that he's doing so well, firstly because it helps the team and secondly I'm just happy for him, but let's not retrofit some type of pedigree. He was not very good at all before this season. Let's not go back and try and curate history. 

Edited December 1, 2023 by Pete

[The Dude]

The Lafrenière evolution is proof that you need to put your younger skill players with your top players to jump start them sometimes.  

 

I'm not saying Lafrenière is riding Panarin’s coattails,  but that DOES happen sometimes and it boosts a players value.  It also boosts their price tag. 

 

Look at a guy like Namestnikov.  Decent player. But he was a guy that ride shotgun with Tampas top players and made a name for himself.  He hasn't touched those numbers since, but teams still see him as a guy they can use. 

 

Hell.  Go get him now. Not a bad fit for current needs.  I don't remember, can he play RW or is it LW? I know he can play center. 

[Phil]

43 minutes ago, The Dude said:

The Lafrenière evolution is proof that you need to put your younger skill players with your top players to jump start them sometimes.  

 

I'm not saying Lafrenière is riding Panarin’s coattails,  but that DOES happen sometimes and it boosts a players value.  It also boosts their price tag. 

 

Look at a guy like Namestnikov.  Decent player. But he was a guy that ride shotgun with Tampas top players and made a name for himself.  He hasn't touched those numbers since, but teams still see him as a guy they can use. 

 

Hell.  Go get him now. Not a bad fit for current needs.  I don't remember, can he play RW or is it LW? I know he can play center. 

 

Namestnikov? All three forward positions. Super versatile. Wanted him for Panarin a year or two back ... or three. Basically since the stupid decision to let Fast walk.

[RangersIn7]

35 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Namestnikov? All three forward positions. Super versatile. Wanted him for Panarin a year or two back ... or three. Basically since the stupid decision to let Fast walk.

If they could bring in a player like him, plus a top-6 RW at some point this year….

 That would be ideal.

Good offensive player.

Better on D than he gets credit for.

Kills penalties.

Can play on a PP.

 

 

But he’s a W. Not a C.

He can play there. 

But he won’t win a faceoff. 

 

Still skates great at 31. 
 

 

And costs no money. Not a straight rental. But small commitment. 
 

Id pay a 2nd and a decent prospect for the next 18 months of him. 

 

[Albatrosss]

6 hours ago, Pete said:

What a loaded statement. It's pretty much meaningless, because a lot of the Rangers best players weren't in the league at 21 because they were in college or overseas.

 

He shouldn't have been in the league before 21. 

 

I'm really happy that he's doing so well, firstly because it helps the team and secondly I'm just happy for him, but let's not retrofit some type of pedigree. He was not very good at all before this season. Let's not go back and try and curate history. 

He was ok last yesr and the year before. You’re looking at him through a 1AO lense. Take that away and his production wasnt too bad for a kid. 

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Albatrosss said:

He was ok last yesr and the year before. You’re looking at him through a 1AO lense. Take that away and his production wasnt too bad for a kid. 

If he wasn't a 1ao he would have been sent down to the AHL in his first season, And who knows what would have happened from there.

 

That sword what cuts both ways. 

[Albatrosss]

17 hours ago, Pete said:

If he wasn't a 1ao he would have been sent down to the AHL in his first season, And who knows what would have happened from there.

 

That sword what cuts both ways. 

You mean he would’ve gotten where he is now a year sooner if he went to AHL first? Maybe, but his production wasn’t all that bad. 

[Pete]

1 minute ago, Albatrosss said:

You mean he would’ve gotten where he is now a year sooner if he went to AHL first? Maybe, but his production wasn’t all that bad. 

I'm not sure what would have happened if he went to the AHL, but we see what he looks like when he's playing with confidence and I think the AHL is a place where a young player like him could have built confidence, gotten the top line minutes he wasn't getting here, gotten the top power play minutes he wasn't getting here, etc. 

[RangersIn7]

On 12/1/2023 at 11:02 PM, Pete said:

If he wasn't a 1ao he would have been sent down to the AHL in his first season, And who knows what would have happened from there.

 

That sword what cuts both ways. 

 

15 hours ago, Albatrosss said:

You mean he would’ve gotten where he is now a year sooner if he went to AHL first? Maybe, but his production wasn’t all that bad. 

 

15 hours ago, Pete said:

I'm not sure what would have happened if he went to the AHL, but we see what he looks like when he's playing with confidence and I think the AHL is a place where a young player like him could have built confidence, gotten the top line minutes he wasn't getting here, gotten the top power play minutes he wasn't getting here, etc. 

Almost all of the top prospect, high draft pick, guys should go to the A.

 

They gain nothing by staying in juniors where they’ve typically already been dominant players. 
Even the European kids that don’t play junior over here, but conversely play in the top leagues over their pre-draft, should play in the A vs staying in Europe.

 

It becomes even more pronounced with kids that aren’t going to get force fed minutes in the NHL.

 
Even the ones that go high, enter the league right away, play a lot, and even put up decent or better numbers, they struggle and often look out of place in some aspects.

 

More guys should go there. 
Including guys who go super high.

 

The Slovak kid in Montreal, that went 1OVA two drafts back… he needs to play there. It’ll help him.

 

Would’ve helped Kakko.

Woukdve helped LaFreniere.

 

It’s clearly helped Quinton Byfield. 
And he only spent approximately 50 games there over 2 seasons.

 

It’s not reasonable to expect kids with that pedigree to jump in and produce quickly.

On a personal note, I almost never have that expectation and honestly expect it to take 3-5 seasons for them to get there. 
The expectations are part of the problem. 

 

Edited December 3, 2023 by RangersIn7

[Pete]

1 hour ago, RangersIn7 said:

 

 

Almost all of the top prospect, high draft pick, guys should go to the A.

 

They gain nothing by staying in juniors where they’ve typically already been dominant players. 
Even the European kids that don’t play junior over here, but conversely play in the top leagues over their pre-draft, should play in the A vs staying in Europe.

 

It becomes even more pronounced with kids that aren’t going to get force fed minutes in the NHL.

 
Even the ones that go high, enter the league right away, play a lot, and even put up decent or better numbers, they struggle and often look out of place in some aspects.

 

More guys should go there. 
Including guys who go super high.

 

The Slovak kid in Montreal, that went 1OVA two drafts back… he needs to play there. It’ll help him.

 

Would’ve helped Kakko.

Woukdve helped LaFreniere.

 

It’s clearly helped Quinton Byfield. 
And he only spent approximately 50 games there over 2 seasons.

 

It’s not reasonable to expect kids with that pedigree to jump in and produce quickly.

On a personal note, I almost never have that expectation and honestly expect it to take 3-5 seasons for them to get there. 
The expectations are part of the problem. 

 

I think people are too tied to NHL/AHL assignments the same way they are too lines. Change lines, if it doesn't work, change 'em back. Send a player to the A to work on XYZ, you can recall them any time. They aren't banished there all season.

[Albatrosss]

You go to AHL when you’re not good enough for the NHL yet. But when you’re putting up points in the NHL there is not much of a reason to “develop” in the AHL. Players can develop while in the majors too. 

[Pete]

3 minutes ago, Albatrosss said:

You go to AHL when you’re not good enough for the NHL yet. But when you’re putting up points in the NHL there is not much of a reason to “develop” in the AHL. Players can develop while in the majors too. 

They can, but that's secondary. The NHL isn't a developmental league. And it isn't just about putting up points. In fact, I'd say that's one of the worst ways to judge if a guy is NHL ready. It's good habits and understanding the game at that level, and being able to keep up.

 

It was clear with both Kakko and Laf that the NHL was too fast for them. The needed to work on some shit in a slower pace, that's what the AHL is for. It's not there just for players who aren't good enough for the NHL, it's for players who aren't ready yet but one day will be.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Pete

[Albatrosss]

Just now, Pete said:

They can, but that's secondary. The NHL isn't a developmental league. It was clear with both Kakko and Laf that the NHL was too fast for them. The needed to work on some shit in a slower pace, that's what the AHL is for. It's not there just for players who aren't good enough for the NHL, it's for players who aren't ready yet but one day will be.

Laf was putting up 30-35 points, so i think he was developing fine. We just did not like what we saw from him being 1OA pick. 
Kakko is a different story. He actually regressed. I honestly think he’s a bust and dont think AHL would’ve helped that. I see nothing in Kakko other than him stick handling into corners. But who knows, maybe he’ll come around 

[Pete]

11 minutes ago, Albatrosss said:

Laf was putting up 30-35 points, so i think he was developing fine. We just did not like what we saw from him being 1OA pick. 
Kakko is a different story. He actually regressed. I honestly think he’s a bust and dont think AHL would’ve helped that. I see nothing in Kakko other than him stick handling into corners. But who knows, maybe he’ll come around 

I edited my post, points don't mean anything. Lafreniere was clearly overmatched. Too good for junior + not ready for NHL = AHL.

 

Kakko should go down for a conditioning stint to get his game back. He has regressed, but he's a capable NHL player, we saw this last season.

 

Fact is, to this point, no one has looked good with Mika and Kreider. Then he got stuck with Bonino. Would like to see him with Trocheck and Kreider.

[Albatrosss]

26 minutes ago, Pete said:

I edited my post, points don't mean anything. Lafreniere was clearly overmatched. Too good for junior + not ready for NHL = AHL.

 

Kakko should go down for a conditioning stint to get his game back. He has regressed, but he's a capable NHL player, we saw this last season.

 

Fact is, to this point, no one has looked good with Mika and Kreider. Then he got stuck with Bonino. Would like to see him with Trocheck and Kreider.

just like you didn’t see anything special in Laf in previous seasons and were wrong, i dont see anything in Kakko. Hopefully im wrong too. 
 

 

ts early but i think Brod is making a case with Tto and Kreider.  I know he has no long term future here and rather see Kakko find his game. 

[Pete]

17 minutes ago, Albatrosss said:

just like you didn’t see anything special in Laf in previous seasons and were wrong, i dont see anything in Kakko. Hopefully im wrong too. 
 

 

ts early but i think Brod is making a case with Tto and Kreider.  I know he has no long term future here and rather see Kakko find his game. 

I wasn't wrong. He wasn't showing anything in previous seasons. I asked many people repeatedly what they saw in his game and nobody could ever answer. He looks visibly different this season, so now there's something to see.

 

What I was wrong about was thinking he would never realize his potential. I didn't think he had the mental makeup and I thought he was lazy. I'm glad to be wrong there. 

 

Many saw something in KK, pundits and media all thought he was primed to break out. He had a great preseason. Then that all went out the window when the regular season started. 

 

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter who's right and who's wrong, it just matters that these kids produce. Getting nothing out of a first overall and second overall pick could set your franchise back years. 

 

It would be nice if Brodz could keep the seat warm while KK gets his game back, as long as he's not hurting he doesn't even need to produce. 

Edited December 3, 2023 by Pete

[BrooksBurner]

18 minutes ago, Pete said:

I wasn't wrong. He wasn't showing anything in previous seasons. I asked many people repeatedly what they saw in his game and nobody could ever answer. He looks visibly different this season, so now there's something to see.

 

What I was wrong about was thinking he would never realize his potential. I didn't think he had the mental makeup and I thought he was lazy. I'm glad to be wrong there. 

 

Many saw something in KK, pundits and media all thought he was primed to break out. He had a great preseason. Then that all went out the window when the regular season started. 

 

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter who's right and who's wrong, it just matters that these kids produce. Getting nothing out of a first overall and second overall pick could set your franchise back years. 

 

It would be nice if Brodz could keep the seat warm while KK gets his game back, as long as he's not hurting he doesn't even need to produce. 

Folks talked about his positioning, forechecking, shot, and vision in the passing game all the time. It fell on deaf ears because he physically lagged behind play and never had the puck enough to consistently show it. He wasn’t fast enough, his skating was blah, and he was gassed too quickly. It’s been talked about for at least a year, and the conditioning criticism really took hold this summer. He got in better shape, improved his skating, and now his body keeps up with his mind. The things that were visible in small infrequent doses are now there practically every game for all to see. He can actually do the things he is thinking with his mind and that is feeding the confidence. It’s a fun positive reinforcement loop to watch happen.

 

Contrast that with Kakko, who has been focused on improving physically yearly and  still looks blah. That tells me the problem is between the ears. I’m not sure that ever gets figured out. That’s why there’s busts.

[Albatrosss]

I liked Laf’s game in seasons prior. He was physical and went to the net. Fearless. He needed time to get adjusted playing with and against the best players in the world and playing against men. I did say he’s our future captain last year..lol

[Pete]

51 minutes ago, Albatrosss said:

I liked Laf’s game in seasons prior. He was physical and went to the net. Fearless. He needed time to get adjusted playing with and against the best players in the world and playing against men. I did say he’s our future captain last year..lol

These are things anyone can do. Those are not the only things you should be seeing from a number one draft pick. And unfortunately for a long time, it was. 

 

Before this season has passing was nothing special, his vision and creativity were nothing special, skating and hands nothing special. All he really had was the shot. 

 

His vision this year by far surpasses anything he's shown before. His offense of awareness is much better. I give Panarin a lot of credit for finding Laf in soft areas of the ice where he has plenty of time to make a play. That wasn't happening with his previous line mates.

 

 

[Valriera]

It’s amazing to me that anyone could look at lafrenieres play this season and suggest that he was displaying the ability to play like this in any season prior. His passing, confidence, skating, hands, and vision are all completely different. He deserves credit for working in what needed to be worked on to get there this year but let’s please not pretend he was any good at all in prior years. Personally I’m thrilled for him, but There’s a reason these threads were made. It’s because he stunk for three seasons until now 

[Albatrosss]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

These are things anyone can do. Those are not the only things you should be seeing from a number one draft pick. And unfortunately for a long time, it was. 

 

Before this season has passing was nothing special, his vision and creativity were nothing special, skating and hands nothing special. All he really had was the shot. 

 

His vision this year by far surpasses anything he's shown before. His offense of awareness is much better. I give Panarin a lot of credit for finding Laf in soft areas of the ice where he has plenty of time to make a play. That wasn't happening with his previous line mates.

 

 

Those are the things anyone can yet not everyone does.  Kakko doesnt. He doesn’t even have any kind of identity. 

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Albatrosss said:

Those are the things anyone can yet not everyone does.  Kakko doesnt. He doesn’t even have any kind of identity. 

That's fine, but it has nothing to do with the original point.