Mike Babcock Resigns as Blue Jackets Coach Amid Investigation Involving Players’ Photos

[Phil]

1 minute ago, Keirik said:

Well, it’s not JUST the money, but it’s part of it. These are the top of the top level of athletes in their trade. There is a level of professionalism that I expect to see maintained at all times if they want to stay at this level. It is a kids game. That’s how every person started playing it. As a kid, for the love of it. The select few get to have every kids dream come true and make it at the top level to be a career out of it.  
 

  I think we are just seeing things from opposite ends on this one. As for the ACL tears and concussions. We both know plenty of athletes blow their ACL in high school,  college, pickup games, wherever. It’s not only at the pro level. Concussions is a whole other topic but there is a reason they want to ban fighting at lower levels, they are starting to ban heading the ball in youth soccer, et al.

 

Yes, because it stops being a "kids game." That's entirely my point. The "kids game," itself stops existing when you stop being a literal kid. It only gets more serious, more physical, more demanding, more taxing as you approach the unlikelihood of being a professional player. It's wonderful for them that they're paid what they are, because in a lot of ways it's a reward for a lifetime of effort, but none of this is a substitute for basic human dignity. It doesn't matter what you're paid or what your job is — at no point should it be acceptable to dispense with basic concepts of dignity like the right to privacy.

 

"Well, you make $800,000, so I get to rifle through your Google search history." The fuck you do. Mind your fucking business, old man.

 

Quote

I still think this is mostly because of who with a lesser extend of what. I’d wager to guess that most players in that locker room were saying “oh shit” when Babcock was hired in the first place so they were just waiting and looking for an out. He was dumb enough to give them one for sure, so there is that. I just don’t agree with this at all however. This, to me, smacks more of entitled players that were looking to be offended just to get out of a situation where they would have to have accountability for not being good enough. We’re talking about a roster that couldn’t even win more than 30% of their games, has more holes than a block of Swiss, has their best “superstar” routinely dog it in years past in Laine, and doesn’t come from some history of winning culture.
 

   If the players are worried some coach might find dick pics in their offseason routine, then Babcock might be lucky to resign. 

 

Please explain to me the competitive advantage of Mike Babcock, a 60-year-old man, rifling through the personal cell phones of his young players. What possible benefit is there to this to aiding the Blue Jackets as an organization? What possible upside is there in this to building an environment of trust, accountability, and respect between players and coaching staff?

 

Oh, and Mike Babcock hasn't been out of the second round since 2012.  If the Blue Jackets players ever had a hope of doing anything in the playoffs, let alone making them, they're lucky Babcock resigned.

[jsm7302]

So, to be objective... the dude repeated history and decided to be intrusive into his players lives. He's a moron.

 

If he wanted to make the connection with them, all he had to do was ask them to send him some photos of their summer with a quick bio. Then have a meeting with each one to expand the conversation. This dude couldn't get out of his own way.

 

Blaming the players for complaining is ridiculous. Everyone is allowed to have different tolerance levels. They will now bring in Gallant and all will be well and good.....for 2 years.

[Phil]

They already gave the job to Pascal Vincent, who was the front-runner before they decided to hire Babcock. Vincent, shockingly enough, wib AHL coach of the year where he built a reputation of being a "smart and cerebral," coach who "gets the most out of young players."

 

Bet he did that by rifling through their cell phones.

[Keirik]

13 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Every generation says the same shit about the generation that follows them. Ask the Silent Generation (if you can find one) what they thought about the culture the Baby Boomers grew up in. They said the same shit you're saying about Millenials or Gen Z. News flash: This is how progress works. It's a ladder. Not a destination. For the life of me, I cannot understand why people want shit to be just as bad for their kids and others' as it was for them growing up. Isn't the point to make their lives easier, not harder?

 

"I had to walk six miles to school in the snow!" That sucks. It's awful, and you never should have. School buses should have existed and been made available to you so that that wasn't required for you to get an education.

 

"Back in my day you could tell a kid to sit down and shut up when he asked to use the bathroom during a lesson!" Great — that' s terrible. So more kids should have to suffer the humiliation of pissing themselves because you want to control things you can't actually control?

 

I grew up in an era before the internet even existed, and when we finally got it, it was on a 28.8 bps modem. I had to DIAL into the internet. My son will never have to know this misery. I should shame him for it? What fucking sense does this make? It's a good thing he'll never have to worry about my wife picking up the phone and destroying his connection while he works on a book report.

 

This is the shit I just can't understand with the Babcocks of the world. You don't have to like that things are different, but you have to accept it, and you need to work with these players, not against them. The more you fight basic progress like the dignity of privacy, the only thing you'll accomplish is ostracizing your own career. You think anyone will ever hire Mike Babcock in the NHL again?

I kind of think your mixing technology progress with the concept of privacy or accountability. 

[Keirik]

13 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Yes, because it stops being a "kids game." That's entirely my point. The "kids game," itself stops existing when you stop being a literal kid. It only gets more serious, more physical, more demanding, more taxing as you approach the unlikelihood of being a professional player. It's wonderful for them that they're paid what they are, because in a lot of ways it's a reward for a lifetime of effort, but none of this is a substitute for basic human dignity. It doesn't matter what you're paid or what your job is — at no point should it be acceptable to dispense with basic concepts of dignity like the right to privacy.

 

"Well, you make $800,000, so I get to rifle through your Google search history." The fuck you do. Mind your fucking business, old man.

 

 

Please explain to me the competitive advantage of Mike Babcock, a 60-year-old man, rifling through the personal cell phones of his young players. What possible benefit is there to this to aiding the Blue Jackets as an organization? What possible upside is there in this to building an environment of trust, accountability, and respect between players and coaching staff?

 

Oh, and Mike Babcock hasn't been out of the second round since 2012.  If the Blue Jackets players ever had a hope of doing anything in the playoffs, let alone making them, they're lucky Babcock resigned.

I can’t answer for Babcock but I’d imagine it was surrounded about seeing what the second worst team in the league was up to this offseason in a way where they can’t just say “ training hard coach.” Ho knows. Obviously he has an issue with trusting players. Again, likely this is less of an issue if it’s someone else. 
 

 

as for the 2012 comment. Come on, he has the 12th most wins in the history of the game. Right behind a fellow dinosaur, John Tortorella. As for the upside, again, I’m not in the locker room but the likely thought is that the higher ups didn’t like the competitive nature, compete leve, seriousness of training, whatever so they thought to bring in a no nonsense “scare the shit out of the players” kind of guy. 

[Phil]

9 minutes ago, Keirik said:

I kind of think your mixing technology progress with the concept of privacy or accountability. 

 

No, I'm not. If you're Babcock, and you're viewing your players' public social media content, that's fair game. I hate comparing the professional sports world to the corporate world, because they don't actually relate, but every major company on earth does this. Every major company on earth has social media clauses. They all say the same thing about being careful about what you say because as an employee you now reflect on the org, etc.

 

That' s not what he did. He went through their personal phones for "several minutes." This is, beyond any shadow of doubt, an intrusion of privacy.

[Phil]

3 minutes ago, Keirik said:

I can’t answer for Babcock but I’d imagine it was surrounded about seeing what the second worst team in the league was up to this offseason in a way where they can’t just say “ training hard coach.” Ho knows. Obviously he has an issue with trusting players. Again, likely this is less of an issue if it’s someone else. 
 

 

as for the 2012 comment. Come on, he has the 12th most wins in the history of the game. Right behind a fellow dinosaur, John Tortorella. As for the upside, again, I’m not in the locker room but the likely thought is that the higher ups didn’t like the competitive nature, compete leve, seriousness of training, whatever so they thought to bring in a no nonsense “scare the shit out of the players” kind of guy. 

 

And hasn't seen the second round in 11 years. Despite coaching some extremely gifted rosters. What's that say about him?

 

As for the profile of the candidate, yeah, I agree, that's what they were after. Congratulations. You got what you paid for.

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

For the people calling players "soft" and "snowflakes" i just want you to reflect on how you would feel if your new boss, who you are just meeting for the first time, came in and demanded to go through your phone.

 

I was willing to accept that he probably had no ill intent after the first round of statements came out. But with this new info, and the fact that they replaced him already, its clear what happened. the whole 'i've learned from past mistakes' thing was clearly bullshit. 

 

these players aren't children. this isn't the teacher catching you texting during class and taking your phone. Babcock is not their parent paying their phone bill who gets to see who they're texting, what pictures they're taking, etc.

 

If you want to see family photos and get to know someone, you can just ask people nicely to share them. I'm sure if that's what was happening, all the players would be on board.  

 

Also, the team's record last year does not entitle the coach to do this to them. On the ice, they were a very unlucky team with injuries and all full strength were probably better than their record shows, but that's not even relevant. They need to improve, fine. That starts with actual coaching, not rehashing your years of mental warfare on players to establish dominance. 

 

[RangersIn7]

This is a weird thing to ask. But other companies do similar things, so it’s not unheard of.

 

Were they actually forced?

Did he physically possess their phones?

As long as they weren’t forced, it’s strange and not a great idea given his history, it’s not over the top ridiculous or an outright invasion.

 

But… he had to know it wouldn’t land well with some players. He had to know it would get out. 
 

More a stupid idea to me then something with malicious intent.

[RichieNextel305]

I’m just curious, and obviously we’ll never know the answer, but what if one of them turned around said no? Like I’m sorry, I don’t let anyone touch my phone. Just a pet peeve. If he called me in and told me to hand it over, I’d have been like sorry bud, ain’t happening. Even if it were my boss asking for it.

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

19 minutes ago, Keirik said:

I can’t answer for Babcock but I’d imagine it was surrounded about seeing what the second worst team in the league was up to this offseason in a way where they can’t just say “ training hard coach.” Ho knows. Obviously he has an issue with trusting players. Again, likely this is less of an issue if it’s someone else. 
 

 

as for the 2012 comment. Come on, he has the 12th most wins in the history of the game. Right behind a fellow dinosaur, John Tortorella. As for the upside, again, I’m not in the locker room but the likely thought is that the higher ups didn’t like the competitive nature, compete leve, seriousness of training, whatever so they thought to bring in a no nonsense “scare the shit out of the players” kind of guy. 

who knows if thats even the case but regardless, there are plenty of ways to do that without dumb bullshit like what Babs did.

 

You referenced Torts. Yes, everyone has said Torts is a tough coach. Has anyone ever said the shit about him that gets said about Babcock? Maybe start with a tough training camp. Bag skate the whole team if you need to. There are so many ways to accomplish these goals that doesn't involve invading people's personal lives. 

[BrooksBurner]

37 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Every generation says the same shit about the generation that follows them. Ask the Silent Generation (if you can find one) what they thought about the culture the Baby Boomers grew up in. They said the same shit you're saying about Millenials or Gen Z. News flash: This is how progress works. It's a ladder. Not a destination. For the life of me, I cannot understand why people want shit to be just as bad for their kids and others' as it was for them growing up. Isn't the point to make their lives easier, not harder?

 

"I had to walk six miles to school in the snow!" That sucks. It's awful, and you never should have. School buses should have existed and been made available to you so that that wasn't required for you to get an education.

 

"Back in my day you could tell a kid to sit down and shut up when he asked to use the bathroom during a lesson!" Great — that' s terrible. So more kids should have to suffer the humiliation of pissing themselves because you want to control things you can't actually control?

 

I grew up in an era before the internet even existed, and when we finally got it, it was on a 28.8 bps modem. I had to DIAL into the internet. My son will never have to know this misery. I should shame him for it? What fucking sense does this make? It's a good thing he'll never have to worry about my wife picking up the phone and destroying his connection while he works on a book report.

 

This is the shit I just can't understand with the Babcocks of the world. You don't have to like that things are different, but you have to accept it, and you need to work with these players, not against them. The more you fight basic progress like the dignity of privacy, the only thing you'll accomplish is ostracizing your own career. You think anyone will ever hire Mike Babcock in the NHL again?

This really is a great post, and I agree up until the Babcock criticism because I don’t necessarily see the link. Some guys reportedly loved the process. Some guys didn’t. A difference of opinion or feelings on something is called life. It’s ok to have both. The first step being to cry to Biz so he can blab one generation’s POV in an unprofessional manner is a joke, and we have an actual respected player on the team in Jenner saying it didn’t happen like that. We can talk about Babcock being on thin ice from his past, but doing something that sounded genuine from his POV to get to know the players is 100% unequivocally not the same thing.

 

Relating to different generations is a two way street by the way. There’s give and take on both sides. I don’t expect my 75 year old Uncle to be a pro at using the internet because I understand he didn’t grow up with it and spent decades without it.

[Keirik]

16 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

No, I'm not. If you're Babcock, and you're viewing your players' public social media content, that's fair game. I hate comparing the professional sports world to the corporate world, because they don't actually relate, but every major company on earth does this. Every major company on earth has social media clauses. They all say the same thing about being careful about what you say because as an employee you now reflect on the org, etc.

 

That' s not what he did. He went through their personal phones for "several minutes." This is, beyond any shadow of doubt, an intrusion of privacy.

I’m simply talking about dial up modems, walking to school, etc. I don’t see that as related.  Just my opinion though.

15 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

And hasn't seen the second round in 11 years. Despite coaching some extremely gifted rosters. What's that say about him?

 

As for the profile of the candidate, yeah, I agree, that's what they were after. Congratulations. You got what you paid for.

It’s not like I like Babcock. I wouldn’t hire him. He’s a dinosaur living on an old reputation. However, that doesn’t mean he can’t coach. He also won a cup post lockout which still Carrie’s some clout I suppose. 
 

I just think firing him is giving an awful lot of power to the players over something that seems like a bad idea rather than a fireable offense. 

[Keirik]

14 minutes ago, BlairBettsBlocksEverything said:

For the people calling players "soft" and "snowflakes" i just want you to reflect on how you would feel if your new boss, who you are just meeting for the first time, came in and demanded to go through your phone.

 

I was willing to accept that he probably had no ill intent after the first round of statements came out. But with this new info, and the fact that they replaced him already, its clear what happened. the whole 'i've learned from past mistakes' thing was clearly bullshit. 

 

these players aren't children. this isn't the teacher catching you texting during class and taking your phone. Babcock is not their parent paying their phone bill who gets to see who they're texting, what pictures they're taking, etc.

 

If you want to see family photos and get to know someone, you can just ask people nicely to share them. I'm sure if that's what was happening, all the players would be on board.  

 

Also, the team's record last year does not entitle the coach to do this to them. On the ice, they were a very unlucky team with injuries and all full strength were probably better than their record shows, but that's not even relevant. They need to improve, fine. That starts with actual coaching, not rehashing your years of mental warfare on players to establish dominance. 

 

Sure have. My first interview with the Police dept I was asked to hand over my phone, asked to give passwords to any social media accounts I have, made to take a polygraph test based on answers I gave them involving my personal life, was asked to provide statements of any outstanding loans I have, and was even presented with a website I had created back in 1998 and asked why I never disclosed it (I had forgotten I even created it since it was for an intramural soccer team I played on to give our team a webpage). 
 

This was 2006. I was 31. 

[Phil]

6 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

This really is a great post, and I agree up until the Babcock criticism because I don’t necessarily see the link. Some guys reportedly loved the process. Some guys didn’t. A difference of opinion or feelings on something is called life. It’s ok to have both. The first step being to cry to Biz so he can blab one generation’s POV in an unprofessional manner is a joke, and we have an actual respected player on the team in Jenner saying it didn’t happen like that. We can talk about Babcock being on thin ice from his past, but doing something that sounded genuine from his POV to get to know the players is 100% unequivocally not the same thing.

 

Relating to different generations is a two way street by the way. There’s give and take on both sides. I don’t expect my 75 year old Uncle to be a pro at using the internet because I understand he didn’t grow up with it and spent decades without it.

 

We don't have enough clarity to say this with certainty. As far as I understand it, Jenner's statement was in relation to the original incident, in which Babcock asked players to connect their phones or whatever to go through photos together. That apparently wasn't as reported, but the investigation found at least one other incident, separate from this one, in which Babcock was reported to go through a young players' phone for "several minutes."

 

This tells me two things:

 

1. This was not a one-off that could be swept under the rug as a misunderstanding.

2. Babcock — who is notorious for shit like this and has a long, long track record of getting himself heavily involved in his players' off-ice lives — learned nothing in his time off. He's still the exact same overbearing, intrusive landlord of a coach who thinks because he "owns" the process, he can walk in on you whenever the hell he wants.

 

And I agree on the difference in generations. It's why I think treating people with simple dignity and grace — PAGING MIKE BABCOCK, YOUR ATTENTION IS REQUESTED — is critical to building efficient teams anywhere in life.

[Phil]

Just now, Keirik said:

Sure have. My first interview with the Police dept I was asked to hand over my phone, asked to give passwords to any social media accounts I have, made to take a polygraph test based on answers I gave them involving my personal life, was asked to provide statements of any outstanding loans I have, and was even presented with a website I had created back in 1998 and asked why I never disclosed it (I had forgotten I even created it since it was for an intramural soccer team I played on to give our team a webpage). 
 

This was 2006. I was 31. 

 

How on earth is this legal.

[Keirik]

13 minutes ago, BlairBettsBlocksEverything said:

who knows if thats even the case but regardless, there are plenty of ways to do that without dumb bullshit like what Babs did.

 

You referenced Torts. Yes, everyone has said Torts is a tough coach. Has anyone ever said the shit about him that gets said about Babcock? Maybe start with a tough training camp. Bag skate the whole team if you need to. There are so many ways to accomplish these goals that doesn't involve invading people's personal lives. 

Well I’m not sure. There was a rumor that several players went to management after the Vruins series loss that led to his firing but that was never proven. Think most players denied it. 
 

besdies the point. I literally just mentioned him in passing, although he has his share of poor decisions. 

[Keirik]

2 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

How on earth is this legal.

Lol there are a lot of things that border the absurd in the Police dept. the Police surgeons are even worse. The amount of HIPAA violations they routinely do is mind boggling if you ever get hurt and they try to force you back. 

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

1 minute ago, Keirik said:

Well I’m not sure. There was a rumor that several players went to management after the Vruins series loss that led to his firing but that was never proven. Think most players denied it. 
 

besdies the point. I literally just mentioned him in passing, although he has his share of poor decisions. 

Replying to both your replies in one message for ease

 

I think your experience as a cop is not typical of most jobs

 

also, yes, i had heard that rumor as well. But there was never any speculation of that bein the result of over the top shit from the coach. just players who got tired of playing for him. Torts (and hard-ass coaches in general) tend to always have a bit of a shelf-life before the yelling gets old and starts falling on deaf ears. A lot of players have tons of good things to say about him overall and I don't believe his character was ever called into question. JUst players not wanting to play for him anymore.

[Phil]

9 minutes ago, Keirik said:

I’m simply talking about dial up modems, walking to school, etc. I don’t see that as related.  Just my opinion though.

 

Of course they're not related. They weren't being provided as perfect comparisons, but as points of comparison that ladder up to my larger point — that every generation blames the one that follows for "having it easy," as if the solution to life is to never actually progress and to remain in a state of social retardation that forcibly holds everyone back so they have to suffer the same plights as their parents and their parents' parents.

 

Quote

It’s not like I like Babcock. I wouldn’t hire him. He’s a dinosaur living on an old reputation. However, that doesn’t mean he can’t coach. He also won a cup post lockout which still Carrie’s some clout I suppose. 
 

I just think firing him is giving an awful lot of power to the players over something that seems like a bad idea rather than a fireable offense. 

 

Except that he probably can't coach, because he can't coach today's players. He could barely coach the players he had when he was still good at his job. Certainly not without driving a few of them to the point of requiring therapy. Call me crazy, but that seems like a recipe for disaster when you're being tasked with bringing along one of the youngest rosters in the entire NHL.

 

Also,

 

1. They didn't fire him. He resigned after an extensive investigation. Formality, but important to be accurate.

2. As I've mentioned already, had this occurred with any other coach without Babcock's history of doing shit exactly like this, you can likely skirt this. He can't, because he earned his reputation by doing shit exactly like this for decades. You make your bed. Now you lie in it.

[Sharpshooter]

On 9/12/2023 at 1:55 PM, Sharpshooter said:

Former Columbus Blue Jackets Head Coach, Mike Babcock.

 

This is why I didn't hate it when the Rangers passed on this guy and Q. Too much baggage with the possibility of things cropping up again and just being a huge distraction in general. I don't think Drury and the organization wanted that over their heads all year. Another masterclass move by JD, and him being fired here looks more and more plausible by the week. I love the guy, but I don't know if he's made the best decisions consistently. He did do a pretty good job setting up the Blues for their Cup, though. That can't be understated, but I still think it's been more bad than good.

 

Anyway, if I was a player I wouldn't be a huge fan of handing over my phone. Having said that, this is commonplace. The days of privacy are long over. Employers check social media accounts and everything nowadays. With technology, comes intrusiveness.

[Pete]

I know people don't want to make it about generations, but it is. The vets had no issue. The kids did.

 

I know people want to pick a side, but you don't have to. Was Babcock wrong for doing that? Maybe. Could the players have just said "No."? Probably.

 

The more I think about this, the more the "Oh they were worried about their playing time if they said no" sounds like BS. So what they did was leak the info and get a guy fired. That was surely the approach of people with character...

 

Like I said before, these "kids" have no issue asking for what they want when they're demanding a trade and to play where they want to, but they couldn't say "I'm not comfortable showing you my phone"?

 

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

2 minutes ago, Pete said:

I know people don't want to make it about generations, but it is. The vets had no issue. The kids did.

 

I know people want to pick a side, but you don't have to. Was Babcock wrong for doing that? Maybe. Could the players have just said "No."? Probably.

 

The more I think about this, the more the "Oh they were worried about their playing time if they said no" sounds like BS. So what they did was leak the info and get a guy fired. That was surely the approach of people with character...

 

Like I said before, these "kids" have no issue asking for what they want when they're demanding a trade and to play where they want to, but they couldn't say "I'm not comfortable showing you my phone"?

 

 

We also don't know how he would have approached it differently with vets vs younger players. Like in his mind he probably doesn't need to fuck with Boone Jenner, but the younger players are fair game? or we dont know if he did it to everyone but the veterans like Jenner and Gaudreau were doing damage control. Him stepping down though makes me think those options were more of a possibility

 

But we can take a step back for a second and just say, new coach, young team whose looking to take a step forward. Maybe doing something that can cause division in the lockerroom before the season even starts is not a wise move. 

[Pete]

13 minutes ago, BlairBettsBlocksEverything said:

 

We also don't know how he would have approached it differently with vets vs younger players. Like in his mind he probably doesn't need to fuck with Boone Jenner, but the younger players are fair game? or we dont know if he did it to everyone but the veterans like Jenner and Gaudreau were doing damage control. Him stepping down though makes me think those options were more of a possibility

 

But we can take a step back for a second and just say, new coach, young team whose looking to take a step forward. Maybe doing something that can cause division in the lockerroom before the season even starts is not a wise move. 

Part of the issue is that no one has all the facts. So it's hard to say.

 

But the fact is, players could have said no. Instead, they acted without character. That says something to me. No one is free of blame here, but I don't see these players as victims of a bully, at all (right now).

Edited September 18, 2023 by Pete

[Keirik]

47 minutes ago, BlairBettsBlocksEverything said:

Replying to both your replies in one message for ease

 

I think your experience as a cop is not typical of most jobs

 

also, yes, i had heard that rumor as well. But there was never any speculation of that bein the result of over the top shit from the coach. just players who got tired of playing for him. Torts (and hard-ass coaches in general) tend to always have a bit of a shelf-life before the yelling gets old and starts falling on deaf ears. A lot of players have tons of good things to say about him overall and I don't believe his character was ever called into question. JUst players not wanting to play for him anymore.

My experience is definitely a bit different, but I just look at certain professions, such as a professional athlete as being a gigantic privilege rather than some right. What comes with that is great responsibility. If we are going on the premise that player X was afraid to show his phone because of damning pics then I have a gigantic issue with that. Player X shouldn’t have anything to hide. 
 

as @Pete said, a player could have said no. I’ll leave that judgement up to any new info that comes up. I honestly think this is more of a case of entitled players that were looking for more of a way out of playing for Babcock more than some gigantic case of feeling violated. The fact that their captain downplayed it right away leads me to believe that there might be something to another group of players on the roster that just didn’t want to play for Babcock even before the first practice ever happened.