Y'all Wanna See a Dead Body? Chris Kreider Is the Best First-round Pick in 30 Years

[Phil]

In chatting with friends in a group chat offline, I came to the terrifying conclusion/understanding that Chris Kreider is undeniably the Rangers' best first-round pick in the last 30 years. Yup. You read that right. Thirty. Years.

 

In fact, in order to find a genuine star-level player they took, you have to go back as far as either 1991 (Kovalev) or 1986 (Leetch).

 

Don't believe me? History proves otherwise:

 

2020: Alexis Lafreniere (1)

2019: Kaapo Kakko (2)

2018: Vitali Kravtsov (9), K'Andre Miller (22), Nils Lundkvist (28)

2017: Lias Andersson (7), Filip Chytil (21)

2016: N/A — Red Wings selected Dennis Cholowski with NYR pick (20)

2015: N/A — Islanders selected Anthony Beauvillier with NYR pick (28)

2014: N/A — Islanders selected Josh Ho-Sang with the NYR pick (28)

2013: N/A — Blue Jackets selected Kerby Rychel with the NYR pick (19)

2012: Brady Skjei (28)

2011: J.T. Miller (15)

2010: Dylan McIlrath (10)

2009: Chris Kreider (19)

2008: Michael Del Zotto (20)

2007: Alexei Cherepanov (17)

2006: Bobby Sanguinetti (21)

2005: Marc Staal (12)

2004: Al Montoya (6)

2003: Hugh Jessiman (12)

2002: N/A — Flames selected Eric Nystrom with the NYR pick (10)

2001: Dan Blackburn (10)

2000: N/A — Lightning selected Nikita Alexeev with the NYR pick (8)

1999: Pavel Brendl (4)

1998: Manny Malhotra (7)

1997: Stefan Cherneski (19)

1996: Jeff Brown (22)

1995: N/A — Whalers selected JS Giguere with the NYR pick (15)

1994: Dan Cloutier (26)

1993: Niklas Sundstrom (8)

 

Before that?

 

1992: Peter Ferraro (24)

1991: Alex Kovalev (15)

1990: Michael Stewart (13)

1989: Steven Rice (20)

1988: N/A — Troy Mallette was taken 22nd overall in the second round

1987: Jayson More (10)

 

 

 

Happy Thursday, everyone!

[phillyb]

wait, there was a remake of stand by me?

[Albatrosss]

JT Miller is prolly better player than Kreider

[Sharpshooter]

The season hasn't even started and already sad with this depressing draft rundown. Thanks.

[Pete]

That's what I get for being too busy for the group chat.

 

This isn't even a discussion point. Everyone else sucks. He's not even that great but he'll be the all time leading goal scorer for NYR when he retires at 47 like Andreychuk. Good for him.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Pete

[The Dude]

[MuddyInTheMiddle]

You are severely undervaluing  Michael Del Zotto!

 

All kidding aside; ouch!

 

To try and debunk this, I went through every NHL team that I could think of to try and find a weaker drafting record that fit the following criteria:

 

1. Had been around for 30+ years
2. Has not been perennially drafting in the top 10 for a large chuck of that period 

 

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00004919.html

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00005763.html

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00006664.html

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00006929.html

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00007066.html

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00007439.html

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00008187.html

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00008871.html

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00008756.html

 

Without clicking any those links above, know what I found no matter how much anyone may want to argue that JT Miller may have had a better career than Kreider at the end of the day?

 

Absolutely nobody(maybe the Florida Panthers).

 

Scary.

 

 

[siddious]

This isn’t that controversial. The rangers are absolute dog shit when it comes to drafting. 

[RodrigueGabriel]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

That's what I get for being too busy for the group chat.

 

This isn't even a discussion point. Everyone else sucks. He's not even that great but he'll be the all time leading goal scorer for NYR when he retires at 47 like Andreychuk. Good for him.

Mark Staal was not Brian Leetch, but he did not suck for the bulk of his time with the Rangers.

Edited August 25, 2023 by RodrigueGabriel

[MuddyInTheMiddle]

10 minutes ago, RodrigueGabriel said:

Mark Staal was not Brian Leetch, but he did not suck for the bulk of his time with the Rangers.

 

I just tried to look at it from who were the best 5 from every team that met my criteria outlined above vs. the best 5 from that Rangers group.

 

If I had to rank the Rangers:

 

1. Chris Kreider

2. JT Miller

3.  Marc Staal

4. Niklas Sundstrom

5. Michael Del Zotto/Brady Skjei

 

When you are debating whetherMichael Del Zotto is better Brady Skjei, you are grasping at straws. 

[Valriera]

Ouch lol. Miller aside who is probably a better player, and, like, maybe K Miller gets there one day too, the point is true lol. I wonder what this looks like for other teams

[Pete]

8 hours ago, RodrigueGabriel said:

Mark Staal was not Brian Leetch, but he did not suck for the bulk of his time with the Rangers.

He didn't suck but he's not what you want from a first round pick. He's Scott Lachance. Never blossomed into the offensive player many thought he would be when drafted. You can't tell me the Rangers thought they were getting a SAH when they took him where they did. Injury got in the way. The conky and the eye. 

[RodrigueGabriel]

28 minutes ago, Pete said:

He didn't suck but he's not what you want from a first round pick. He's Scott Lachance. Never blossomed into the offensive player many thought he would be when drafted. You can't tell me the Rangers thought they were getting a SAH when they took him where they did. Injury got in the way. The conky and the eye. 

I would argue that they did about as well as they could have in the 2005 draft. The only guys taken behind Staal (12) in that 1st round with even marginally equivalent NHL success are Tukka Rask (21) and TJ Oshie (24). If only PIT hadn't snagged some dude named Chris Letang at 62.

[RJWantsTheCup]

I would think in a few years some combination of K'Andre Miller, Kakko, Chytil and maybe even Lafraniere will crack the top 5.

Until then Kreider is the top pick.

[Pete]

1 hour ago, RodrigueGabriel said:

I would argue that they did about as well as they could have in the 2005 draft. The only guys taken behind Staal (12) in that 1st round with even marginally equivalent NHL success are Tukka Rask (21) and TJ Oshie (24). If only PIT hadn't snagged some dude named Chris Letang at 62.

And that's fine, but it doesn't change my point either. How the draft shook out versus what they expected when they took him are two different things. 

[RJWantsTheCup]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

He didn't suck but he's not what you want from a first round pick. He's Scott Lachance. Never blossomed into the offensive player many thought he would be when drafted. You can't tell me the Rangers thought they were getting a SAH when they took him where they did. Injury got in the way. The conky and the eye. 

He was never the same player after the eye injury.

[siddious]

I guess it should be noted there were traded away first rounders for many many years and a lot of the ones that were made were middle to late picks. 
 

it’s really the last few years we should be most angry about. Krapsov and Anderson will go down in rangers history as major whiffs. 

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

kind of also concerning that even in years we sucked, it took until 2017 to have multiple first rounders in one draft

 

despite your thoughts on him, Staal at 12th is a good pick. And cant fault anyone for Cherepanov  

 

Skjei is a great pick at 28 as well.

 

Realistically most draft picks outside the top half of the first round are a total crapshoot and I would assume a lot of teams have records with guys in those range that aren;t much better than ours.

 

Still, it's pretty bleak. With that said, When you draft a guy anywhere in the first round (or anywhere in the draft for that matter) and they have a 10+ year career, especially with the team that picked them, its going to stand out as a good pick. 

Edited August 25, 2023 by BlairBettsBlocksEverything

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

4 hours ago, siddious said:

I guess it should be noted there were traded away first rounders for many many years and a lot of the ones that were made were middle to late picks. 
 

it’s really the last few years we should be most angry about. Krapsov and Anderson will go down in rangers history as major whiffs. 

The last 20 years:

5 top 12 picks that was totally useless - Andersson, Kravtsov, Mcilrath, Jessiman, Montoya

4 years without a 1st rounder

2 picks were they had no choice - Kakko & Lafreniere

2 late 1st rounders that looks like solid picks - Miller, Chytil

4 solid picks (all late teen's or early 20's) - Staal, Kreider, Skjei, Miller

2 'meh' picks - Lundkvist, Del Zotto

1 RIP Cherepanov

 

Fair to say they suck monkey balls with the early picks, but does fairly well in the late teen/early 20's. Not sure what to take out of this, but it should be alarming. Even when they get back-to-back top two picks they somehow manage to mess it up.

 

Me thinks the main problem is prospect development and how they rush the "sure thing" prospects, while they let the less talented players (late 1st rounders) develop the right way.

[BrooksBurner]

40 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

The last 20 years:

5 top 12 picks that was totally useless - Andersson, Kravtsov, Mcilrath, Jessiman, Montoya

4 years without a 1st rounder

2 picks were they had no choice - Kakko & Lafreniere

2 late 1st rounders that looks like solid picks - Miller, Chytil

4 solid picks (all late teen's or early 20's) - Staal, Kreider, Skjei, Miller

2 'meh' picks - Lundkvist, Del Zotto

1 RIP Cherepanov

 

Fair to say they suck monkey balls with the early picks, but does fairly well in the late teen/early 20's. Not sure what to take out of this, but it should be alarming. Even when they get back-to-back top two picks they somehow manage to mess it up.

 

Me thinks the main problem is prospect development and how they rush the "sure thing" prospects, while they let the less talented players (late 1st rounders) develop the right way.

They rush them and then also shelter their minutes and opportunity. It’s the worst combination possible.

[RangersIn7]

44 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

The last 20 years:

5 top 12 picks that was totally useless - Andersson, Kravtsov, Mcilrath, Jessiman, Montoya

4 years without a 1st rounder

2 picks were they had no choice - Kakko & Lafreniere

2 late 1st rounders that looks like solid picks - Miller, Chytil

4 solid picks (all late teen's or early 20's) - Staal, Kreider, Skjei, Miller

2 'meh' picks - Lundkvist, Del Zotto

1 RIP Cherepanov

 

Fair to say they suck monkey balls with the early picks, but does fairly well in the late teen/early 20's. Not sure what to take out of this, but it should be alarming. Even when they get back-to-back top two picks they somehow manage to mess it up.

 

Me thinks the main problem is prospect development and how they rush the "sure thing" prospects, while they let the less talented players (late 1st rounders) develop the right way.

You missed Sanguinetti

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

4 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

You missed Sanguinetti

he's a god damn olympian for christs sake

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

also regarding Del Zotto, he's had a very good/long pro career so he's earned his draft spot. 

 

first few years here he showed a lot but definitely hit a wall the year we traded him (Klein was a great pickup for us)

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

fun experiement. who should we have drafted with each of these picks? gonna start with '18

 

2018: Vitali Kravtsov (9), K'Andre Miller (22), Nils Lundkvist (28)

should have taken Joel Farabee at 9. Other two picks are probably as good as we could have gotten. Lundkvist is a seperate issue in that he was traded/blocked for ice time because of D depth. Maybe Rasmus Sandin but that would be the same issue regardless 

 

2017: Lias Andersson (7), Filip Chytil (21)

ugh 2017 hurts. Options over Li-ass. Tippet, Necas, Suzuki, Norris

 

 

2012: Brady Skjei (28).  (as good as we could have gotten

 

2011: J.T. Miller (15). (as good as we could have gotten)

 

2010: Dylan McIlrath (10). (1st choice, a gun with a single bullet to blow our own heads off. 2nd choice, Vlad/Fowler)

 

2009: Chris Kreider (19).  (best pick we could have had)

 

 

2008: Michael Del Zotto (20).    John Carlsson

 

2007: Alexei Cherepanov (17).  - Leaving this one alone

 

2006: Bobby Sanguinetti (21).  (dont need to remind anyone

 

2005: Marc Staal (12).   (a couple of players we could have maybe had success with but cant be mad at the pick)

 

2004: Al Montoya (6).  also Lauri Korpikoski (19)  between 6-19 nothing special. 20 was Travis Zajac, 29 Mike Green

 

2003: Hugh Jessiman (12).  ( the bullet we used in 2010 was actually used here, carry on)

 

2001: Dan Blackburn (10). (injury ended his career so it sucks to do this. But Ales Hemsky. Otherwise nothing special in that first round

 

1999: Pavel Brendl (4)  Lundmark at 9 (so we did have a few multi-first rounders).  first real notable player is at 26 for Havlat

 

1998: Manny Malhotra (7). They rushed him, he had a very good long career. should have been patient. With that said, Tanguay, Gagne, Gomez

 

1997: Stefan Cherneski (19).  Scott Hannan or Brendan Morrow

 

1996: Jeff Brown (22).  Danny Brierre

 

1994: Dan Cloutier (26).  (totally worth it for the goalie fight beatdown against the Isles

 

1993: Niklas Sundstrom (8). Koivu at 21 but that seems like a big reach at the time

[Sod16]

The top 10 picks have been uniformly bad, although Kakko and LaF don't count.  Later 1st Round picks have been good if you compare them to the percentage of success for picks at those slots.  It's worth remembering that these picks were made by totally different personnel.  Slats seemed to have nothing to do with it and deferred to scouts.

 

I think Blackburn would have been a good one.

 

When you analyze a pick, I don't think it's fair to go beyond the five players selected immediately thereafter.  It's not realistic to hold out a player picked significantly later.  Heck, you can condemn every pick made in the entire draft when Panarin or MSL were available if you want to go that route.