Proposal: Reaves and Kravtsov for Frank the Tank — Who Says No?

[Phil]

@Drew a Penalty and I were kicking around the idea of possible landing spots for Reaves. I mentioned Arizona for obvious reasons — traditional trading partner and very young team who'd likely benefit a ton from the cultural aspects of adding a veteran dressing room leader like Reaves. For the same reasons, he also suggested Anaheim, who might make even more sense given they're the youngest team in the league, but are more advanced in their rebuild, and just signed Strome, who would no doubt vouch for Reaves if asked.

 

Reaves (1.75 x 1) + Kravtsov (0.875 x 1) for Frank Vatrano ($3.65 x 3) with some level of retention. Kravtsov is still young enough that the Ducks might still see upside and don't suffer from the same win-now environment the Rangers do. New York can't afford to wait and hope he pans out. Anaheim can. Reaves gives them a major culture boost for an otherwise losing environment and will help keep things loose in the room. Deslauries' true value was penalty-killing, but with him gone in free agency, they really only have Sam Carrick left as someone to rely on to fight when needed.

 

Meanwhile, Franky Meatballs picks up where he left off, giving the Rangers' middle-six the scoring threat it really doesn't have right now.

 

Win-win?

[RJWantsTheCup]

It's a shame that Kravtsov's value  is reduced to a throw in a trade to get Frank Vatrano.

[Pete]

Nah. I'd want more from Kravtsov than Vatrano.

 

Frankie was riding the wave of talent around him, a shooting percentage well above his career average (so IMO, too much chance it was an anomaly), and really bad 5v5 analytics.

 

I don't see how he helps. Rather keep the Krav bait for PK88.

[Keirik]

I was saying something along these lines in the Sharks GDT. I think it was a big miss not bringing back Vatrano. He fit perfectly and in reality didn’t cost that much. Meanwhile instead we brought in more 4th line redundancies. 

[Phil]

14 minutes ago, Pete said:

Nah. I'd want more from Kravtsov than Vatrano.

 

Frankie was riding the wave of talent around him, a shooting percentage well above his career average (so IMO, too much chance it was an anomaly), and really bad 5v5 analytics.

 

I don't see how he helps. Rather keep the Krav bait for PK88.

 

I just don't see Krav as bait anymore. I guess, in a sense, he'd be attractive to Chicago for the same reasons as Anaheim — they're both in rebuilds — but I think he's a throw-in in almost any trade scenario. His value to the Rangers (and probably on the market) is pathetically low.

[siddious]

17 minutes ago, Pete said:

Nah. I'd want more from Kravtsov than Vatrano.

 

Frankie was riding the wave of talent around him, a shooting percentage well above his career average (so IMO, too much chance it was an anomaly), and really bad 5v5 analytics.

 

I don't see how he helps. Rather keep the Krav bait for PK88.

 

this

[Keirik]

14 minutes ago, Pete said:

Nah. I'd want more from Kravtsov than Vatrano.

 

Frankie was riding the wave of talent around him, a shooting percentage well above his career average (so IMO, too much chance it was an anomaly), and really bad 5v5 analytics.

 

I don't see how he helps. Rather keep the Krav bait for PK88.

Vatrano had 8 goals and 5 assists in 18 regular season games when he was traded here, ALL at even strength. He played 20 playoff games with 13 points, 9 of which at even strength. 
38 games, 22 of 26 points were even strength. 

[BrooksBurner]

Liked what Frank brought last year, but don’t want that kind of money tied up in him.

 

They will probably need someone a little more impactful in the top 6, and will need every penny they can pinch to make it happen. Not just this year, but the next couple of years.

Edited November 23, 2022 by rmc51

[RJWantsTheCup]

Vatrano was good in his short stay here last year but I don’t see him replicating that scoring pace here or anywhere.  
If they were willing to do Reaves and Hajek for Vatrano plus retention I might consider that. 

[Phil]

Just now, RJWantsTheCup said:

Vatrano was good in his short stay here last year but I don’t see him replicating that scoring pace here or anywhere.  
If they were willing to do Reaves and Hajek for Vatrano plus retention I might consider that. 

 

This leaves Kravtsov on your fourth line?

[Pete]

5 minutes ago, Keirik said:

Vatrano had 8 goals and 5 assists in 18 regular season games when he was traded here, ALL at even strength. He played 20 playoff games with 13 points, 9 of which at even strength. 
38 games, 22 of 26 points were even strength. 

None of this makes him good at ES, it just means he doesn't get PP time. :44 seconds a game in FLA and :58 here.

 

His CF at ES for FLA was 55, and when he got here it was close to that before dropping to 42.7 for the playoffs, even with a PDO of 101.3.

 

He's not a play driver, he's a chucker. I'm not confident his SH% stays at the 14.3 he put up in the regular season here, he's a career 9% shooter otherwise.

 

Point is, I want more for Krav.

[RJWantsTheCup]

5 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

This leaves Kravtsov on your fourth line?

Rangers continuously fuck up managing Kravtsov.  He should have been sent for a conditioning stint and then hopefully comeback to claim RW with Panarin and Trochek so Goodrow goes to 4th line center and Carpenter sits.   Now he’s stuck as the 13th forward.  If they got Vatrano would slot him on first line.  Kravtsov on 2nd line.  Vesey over Blais at this point with Goodrow and Gauthier. 

[LindG1000]

Three things matter to me here:

 

1 - Anaheim isn't trading a guy they just signed. That sort of shit gets remembered when you're a smaller or non-traditional market. He's at least finishing 2022-23 in the duckpond.

2 - @Pete's bang on here - gotta get more from Kravtsov - whether on ice or off team.

3 - I really don't think a middling RW with a penchant for taking every shot he sees is the solution we need; certainly not over a steady LD.

[Keirik]

21 minutes ago, Pete said:

None of this makes him good at ES, it just means he doesn't get PP time. :44 seconds a game in FLA and :58 here.

 

His CF at ES for FLA was 55, and when he got here it was close to that before dropping to 42.7 for the playoffs, even with a PDO of 101.3.

 

He's not a play driver, he's a chucker. I'm not confident his SH% stays at the 14.3 he put up in the regular season here, he's a career 9% shooter otherwise.

 

Point is, I want more for Krav.

No, he’s not a play driver. I agree there. But the RW on either top line doesn’t need a play driver. 
 

eye test says he’s quite fine at even strength and compliments the top line. Isn’t that what we are looking for anyway? A fit at rw for the top 6?  Advanced stats are nice but a good fit with actual results are nicer.  Plus, it’s not like we are talking some huge commitment. It’s 3.6 for two more years and we have redundant dead wood. I’d rather leave out Kravtsov but I’m not too tied to him either. 

[josh]

No.

 

[lefty9]

8 minutes ago, josh said:

No.

 

Agree 

[RichieNextel305]

I do like what Vatrano bought.

 

I was flirting with another idea, because since he was a shoot first winger that fit in well on the top line, I thought about this route:

TO NYR: Mike Hoffman (50% retention)

 

TO MTL: Sammy Blais and Vitali Kravtsov

That would bring Hoffman to $2.25 as a cap hit for this year and next then UFA. Blais and Kravtsov combine for $2.3 on the cap, so almost a wash.

 

Guy always shoots. 5 goals in 16 games.

 

Just an idea. Especially since we know Gorton likes Kravtsov.

Edited November 23, 2022 by RichieNextel305

[Morphinity 2.0]

Drury says no.

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Keirik said:

No, he’s not a play driver. I agree there. But the RW on either top line doesn’t need a play driver. 
 

eye test says he’s quite fine at even strength and compliments the top line. Isn’t that what we are looking for anyway? A fit at rw for the top 6?  Advanced stats are nice but a good fit with actual results are nicer.  Plus, it’s not like we are talking some huge commitment. It’s 3.6 for two more years and we have redundant dead wood. I’d rather leave out Kravtsov but I’m not too tied to him either. 

Moot point now.

 

However, the stats show that he wasn't part of the solution in the post season. He was a nice-to-have at the deadline, but he didn't help enough in the playoffs.

 

I'm also not sold on the "actual results" of a career 9% shooter shooting almost 15% over 20ish regular season games and I just think they need a more significant upgrade if Kravtsov is attached.

[Keirik]

40 minutes ago, Pete said:

Moot point now.

 

However, the stats show that he wasn't part of the solution in the post season. He was a nice-to-have at the deadline, but he didn't help enough in the playoffs.

 

I'm also not sold on the "actual results" of a career 9% shooter shooting almost 15% over 20ish regular season games and I just think they need a more significant upgrade if Kravtsov is attached.

There’s validity in there for sure, but I also don’t think Kravtsov is necessary to get him anyway. I don’t think he was bad at all in the playoffs though. 13 points in 20 playoff games. Not a ton In the first two rounds but against Tampa he was one of our more productive players. 5 points in the series isn’t too bad. 

[Pete]

15 minutes ago, Keirik said:

There’s validity in there for sure, but I also don’t think Kravtsov is necessary to get him anyway. I don’t think he was bad at all in the playoffs though. 13 points in 20 playoff games. Not a ton In the first two rounds but against Tampa he was one of our more productive players. 5 points in the series isn’t too bad. 

I think that's my point is that we traded a fourth rounder for him last year, why would we be giving up a 9th overall for him this year?

 

That's a lot to give up to roll the dice a second time on

Edited November 23, 2022 by Pete

[fletch]

4 hours ago, Phil said:

@Drew a Penalty and I were kicking around the idea of possible landing spots for Reaves. I mentioned Arizona for obvious reasons — traditional trading partner and very young team who'd likely benefit a ton from the cultural aspects of adding a veteran dressing room leader like Reaves. For the same reasons, he also suggested Anaheim, who might make even more sense given they're the youngest team in the league, but are more advanced in their rebuild, and just signed Strome, who would no doubt vouch for Reaves if asked.

 

Reaves (1.75 x 1) + Kravtsov (0.875 x 1) for Frank Vatrano ($3.65 x 3) with some level of retention. Kravtsov is still young enough that the Ducks might still see upside and don't suffer from the same win-now environment the Rangers do. New York can't afford to wait and hope he pans out. Anaheim can. Reaves gives them a major culture boost for an otherwise losing environment and will help keep things loose in the room. Deslauries' true value was penalty-killing, but with him gone in free agency, they really only have Sam Carrick left as someone to rely on to fight when needed.

 

Meanwhile, Franky Meatballs picks up where he left off, giving the Rangers' middle-six the scoring threat it really doesn't have right now.

 

Win-win?

Win-win

 

Kravtsov needs a fresh start.   He may set the world on fire and develop with the Coyotes.  Sometimes athletes need a change of scenery, and are motivated as a FU to the old org, as well as motivated to fit in with a new org and succeed.  He just wants to play on a regular basis.  Sure seems like there is a better chance for him to play on a top line with the Coyotes than the Rangers.

 

I don't know if GG would be happy to lose Reaves.  But I think we're a better team with other players on the third and fourth lines.  Reminds me of the scene in Moneyball when GM Billy Beane ships out players to other teams so manager Art Howe can't play them.

 

Vatrano has shown an ability to produce, fit into the Rangers system,  and the flexibility to play in the top six or bottom six.

[The Dude]

2 hours ago, fletch said:

Win-win

 

Kravtsov needs a fresh start.   He may set the world on fire and develop with the Coyotes.  Sometimes athletes need a change of scenery, and are motivated as a FU to the old org, as well as motivated to fit in with a new org and succeed.  He just wants to play on a regular basis.  Sure seems like there is a better chance for him to play on a top line with the Coyotes than the Rangers.

The Rangers are using Jimmy Vesey on their top line. Goodrow on their 2nd. 

 

There's plenty of opportunity here. He just needs to stay healthy. He should be in the lineup NOW. Scratch Vesey, Blais or Carpenter.  

[Albatrosss]

2 minutes ago, The Dude said:

The Rangers are using Jimmy Vesey on their top line. Goodrow on their 2nd. 

 

There's plenty of opportunity here. He just needs to stay healthy. He should be in the lineup NOW. Scratch Vesey, Blais or Carpenter.  

why scratch blais and carpenter?  that line is clicking and putting up points.  

[The Dude]

33 minutes ago, CCCP said:

why scratch blais and carpenter?  that line is clicking and putting up points.  

They are? 

 

Blais hasn't had a point in 5 games and it was a random assist.

 

Carpenter scored a BS goal 4 games ago, and an assist 12 games before that 

 

Gauthier is putting up points and playing well. I'd rather see

 

Kreider- Zibanejad- Gauthier 

Panarin- Trochek-Kravtsov 

Lafrenière- Chytil- Kakko

TrivignoVesey/Blais- Goodrow- Vesey/Blais/Trivigno 

 

Gallants penchant for square pegs in round holes with moves like Vesey, Hunt and Goodrow in the top 6, needs to stop. When they have Kravtsov and a guy playing with momentum like Gauthier,  there's no reason to force a PTO guy and a career 4th liner into these spots. I get that Kravtsov has been made of glass. But you gotta keep going to him. Why he can't get Gauthier more looks is annoying. Even Blais.. play these guys. Why not? Jimmy Vesey? For real? This is getting ridiculous.