Pete Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 3 minutes ago, rmc51 said: No that's not what you're saying. You want to mess with the top 6 as it exists today. The top 6 was fine production-wise pre-deadline, but they had a tendency to go missing for stretches when Hunt was dragging them down. Now the line is pretty great, not just fine. I'll keep the great. You dodged my question by the way. I mean, you don't get to tell me what my point is. If you're going to be that way about it, I'll just finish my point here. The top 6 was fine all year. It doesn't matter what it is today, the moves at the deadline were meant to create depth. Right now, there's no third line, so...kinda like pre deadline. So the top 6 went from A to A+ and the bottom 6 still crap. Lateral implementation of the deadline moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 16 minutes ago, Pete said: I mean, you don't get to tell me what my point is. If you're going to be that way about it, I'll just finish my point here. The top 6 was fine all year. It doesn't matter what it is today, the moves at the deadline were meant to create depth. Right now, there's no third line, so...kinda like pre deadline. So the top 6 went from A to A+ and the bottom 6 still crap. Lateral implementation of the deadline moves. I didn’t tell you what your point was. I said you wanted to mess with the top 6 as it exists today by moving Copp out. That’s objectively true based on what you posted. Sorry the idea of doing that stinks right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 It’s really hard to move Vatrano or Copp right now, given the success they’ve had on the 1st and 2nd lines, respectively. That said… 3rd line has got to get going. And now you have depth and two guys coming back from injury… so you gotta do something there to push the pile a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 3 hours ago, rmc51 said: I didn’t tell you what your point was. I said you wanted to mess with the top 6 as it exists today by moving Copp out. That’s objectively true based on what you posted. Sorry the idea of doing that stinks right now. Maybe to you. But in reality it doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 2 hours ago, RangersIn7 said: It’s really hard to move Vatrano or Copp right now, given the success they’ve had on the 1st and 2nd lines, respectively. Those players have had success but the actual line production isn't much different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 15 minutes ago, Pete said: Those players have had success but the actual line production isn't much different. No But it is better. And those 2 lines have had holes at RW all year… except for when Gallant bumped LaFreniere up there and actually left him there for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 29 minutes ago, Pete said: Maybe to you. But in reality it doesn't. Apparently it stinks to Gallant too. I thought you trusted him and management in everything they do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leetchy2 Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 Kreider - Zib - Vatrano Bread - Strome - Copp Laffy - Chytil - Kakko Motte - Rooney - Goodrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindG1000 Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 Hard problem, because your new guys have fit like a glove, but it's still too top heavy., Drury brought in Copp, Vatrano, and Motte to give the bottom six a good deal more "pain in the ass" to play against. What's ended up happening is that Copp's slotted in where Kakko should be, Vatrano's slotted in where Laf was (which, fine, he was out of position), Motte's hurt, unfortunately. I think you mix it up a bit around your core duos and see if you can get more consistency (or just win more matchups) out of something like this: Kreider-Zib-Vatrano Bread-Strome-Kakko Laf-Chytil-Copp Hunt-Rooney-Goodrow 1 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsm7302 Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 2 minutes ago, G1000 said: Hard problem, because your new guys have fit like a glove, but it's still too top heavy., Drury brought in Copp, Vatrano, and Motte to give the bottom six a good deal more "pain in the ass" to play against. What's ended up happening is that Copp's slotted in where Kakko should be, Vatrano's slotted in where Laf was (which, fine, he was out of position), Motte's hurt, unfortunately. I think you mix it up a bit around your core duos and see if you can get more consistency (or just win more matchups) out of something like this: Kreider-Zib-Vatrano Bread-Strome-Kakko Laf-Chytil-Copp Hunt-Rooney-Goodrow That is the lineup. Hands down. I just feel like you hit it, 100% with that analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindG1000 Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 Take or leave Copp-Vatrano there too. I can see a world where Laf and Vatrano really mix well too, since Laf has needed literally anyone who wants to shoot a puck. The whole point is to realize that in the playoffs, we want to win matchups. Having guys like Laf and Copp on the third line is a goddamn luxury and should, if deployed right, win more matchups than they lose. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 12 minutes ago, G1000 said: Hard problem, because your new guys have fit like a glove, but it's still too top heavy., Drury brought in Copp, Vatrano, and Motte to give the bottom six a good deal more "pain in the ass" to play against. What's ended up happening is that Copp's slotted in where Kakko should be, Vatrano's slotted in where Laf was (which, fine, he was out of position), Motte's hurt, unfortunately. I think you mix it up a bit around your core duos and see if you can get more consistency (or just win more matchups) out of something like this: Kreider-Zib-Vatrano Bread-Strome-Kakko Laf-Chytil-Copp Hunt-Rooney-Goodrow I like that a lot actually and it’s probably their best option right now. Don’t know if they’ll do it though Panarin isn’t wild about Kakko on the RW with him and Strome IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 16 hours ago, Pete said: And therein lies the problem. You and @Long live the King are keeping the same players together who can't buy a goal, and then suggesting playing the fourth line more, and the third line less, so all you're doing is juggling ice time and you expect a different outcome? It's still basically half the game where you're not going to get a goal. The combinations themselves need to be fixed, and putting Laf with Rooney and Hunt is not the answer. I don't care if Hunt - Rooney - Goodrow score. They're out there to prevent the other team from scoring and wreak havoc on the forecheck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 48 minutes ago, G1000 said: Hard problem, because your new guys have fit like a glove, but it's still too top heavy., Drury brought in Copp, Vatrano, and Motte to give the bottom six a good deal more "pain in the ass" to play against. What's ended up happening is that Copp's slotted in where Kakko should be, Vatrano's slotted in where Laf was (which, fine, he was out of position), Motte's hurt, unfortunately. I think you mix it up a bit around your core duos and see if you can get more consistency (or just win more matchups) out of something like this: Kreider-Zib-Vatrano Bread-Strome-Kakko Laf-Chytil-Copp Hunt-Rooney-Goodrow And it has. It didn’t mean those players had to be in the bottom 6. It shoved down the other guys who kept getting shoehorned into the top 6. The bottom 6 has already gotten better by doing that. This new 3rd line Gallant just tried basically won the game last night. Let’s see more of it and see if it doesn’t solve the problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 Starting to wonder if Goodrow/Chytil is a duo Gallant would like to keep together, for the same reason he has Copp with Strome. Fills in all of the weaknesses. Line stability, defensive responsibility, faceoffs, etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 7 minutes ago, rmc51 said: Starting to wonder if Goodrow/Chytil is a duo Gallant would like to keep together, for the same reason he has Copp with Strome. Fills in all of the weaknesses. Line stability, defensive responsibility, faceoffs, etc. I think people here (driven by narrative) are the only ones who may think Strome isn't reliable defensively. He seems to always be out at the end of close games so it's not a POV Gallant shares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Long live the King said: I don't care if Hunt - Rooney - Goodrow score. They're out there to prevent the other team from scoring and wreak havoc on the forecheck. You should care of you want them playing 18 mins a night. Which, again, is the entire reason they shouldn't. Edited April 14, 2022 by Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 1 hour ago, Pete said: You should care of you want them playing 18 mins a night. Which, again, is the entire reason they shouldn't. I got them at 16ish depending on how many penalties they have to kill. CK - Z - Vatrano and Bread - Butter - Copp are gonna combine for about 40 minutes. That leaves 20 to split between bowling ball line and kid line, with special teams being the variable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Long live the King said: I got them at 16ish depending on how many penalties they have to kill. CK - Z - Vatrano and Bread - Butter - Copp are gonna combine for about 40 minutes. That leaves 20 to split between bowling ball line and kid line, with special teams being the variable. Goodrow gets 16+ minutes no sweat. I can’t see Hunt or Rooney getting above 12-14. And that’s fine. When you have a 4th line that plays 8-11 per night, it’s because you don’t want them to play more. Dead horse… but it’s Kakko, LaFreniere, and Chytil. You need 15 solid minutes a night from 2 of those 3. Zib, Panarin, Strome.. all 20ish minutes per. Kreider, Copp… gonna see 18+ per. Goodrow, Vatrano… looking at about 15-17 per. You need 2 more who you can count on for roughly 14-15ish. It’s not going to be… Hunt Reaves Maybe Rooney touches 14. But that’s with PK time. We know who the 13 forwards are. Its just a question of who is in street clothes. If you look at the best teams in the league, pretty much every year, with very few exceptions, they have 8-9 forwards who play 15 minutes a night. Edited April 14, 2022 by RangersIn7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 19 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said: If you look at the best teams in the league, pretty much every year, with very few exceptions, they have 8-9 forwards who play 15 minutes a night. Tampa 19-20 (11 regular forwards): Kucherov: 21:40 - Zib Palat: 20:55 - Panarin Point: 20:32 - Kreider Cirelli: 20:08 - Strome Killorn: 19:44 - Copp Gourde: 18:19 - Vatrano Goodrow: 18:15 - Goodrow Coleman: 17:53 - Rooney Johnson: 15:44 - Hunt Maroon: 12:36 - Kakko Paquette: 11:34 - Chytil 12th averaged about 11 minutes - Laf This is what we're looking at, but drop the bowling ball line down about a minute and bump the kid line up a minute. Now here's their scoring. As you go down the list read Panarin, Zib, Fox, CK, Strome, Copp, Trouba, Vatrano, Miller... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Long live the King said: Tampa 19-20 (11 regular forwards): Kucherov: 21:40 - Zib Palat: 20:55 - Panarin Point: 20:32 - Kreider Cirelli: 20:08 - Strome Killorn: 19:44 - Copp Gourde: 18:19 - Vatrano Goodrow: 18:15 - Goodrow Coleman: 17:53 - Rooney Johnson: 15:44 - Hunt Maroon: 12:36 - Kakko Paquette: 11:34 - Chytil 12th averaged about 11 minutes - Laf This is what we're looking at, but drop the bowling ball line down about a minute and bump the kid line up a minute. Now here's their scoring. As you go down the list read Panarin, Zib, Fox, CK, Strome, Copp, Trouba, Vatrano, Miller... I see what you’re trying to do there, but Tyler Johnson and Blake Coleman of 2-3 seasons ago rate higher for me then Rooney and Hunt They also did that in the face of a major injury to a top player in Stamkos, if we are talking about postseason play. Edited April 14, 2022 by RangersIn7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 2 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said: I see what you’re trying to do there, but Tyler Johnson and Blake Coleman of 2-3 seasons ago rate higher for me then Rooney and Hunt. Tyler Johnson had 4 even strength points and was a -6. Rooney may not score as much as Coleman, but he doesn't need to. Coleman was 5th among forwards in scoring for them. We don't need that from Rooney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 2 hours ago, Pete said: I think people here (driven by narrative) are the only ones who may think Strome isn't reliable defensively. He seems to always be out at the end of close games so it's not a POV Gallant shares. Agreed on this, at the same time there's all this talk here about breaking up the top two lines and spreading out the turds onto them when Gallants POV has shown no indication of doing so. It would seem to indicate he doesn't share the need to breakup what's working up top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 (edited) 24 minutes ago, jsrangers said: Agreed on this, at the same time there's all this talk here about breaking up the top two lines and spreading out the turds onto them when Gallants POV has shown no indication of doing so. It would seem to indicate he doesn't share the need to breakup what's working up top. I think you probably are best served keeping one of CK-Zib-Vatrano Panarin-Strome-Copp … those 2 lines together. Whichever you pick, you slot in Kakko or LaFreniere on the RW there, and then your 3rd line becomes some combination of Lafreniere/Kakko/Chytil/Goodrow/Copp/Vatrano Your best 2-way mix out of that bunch might be Goodrow-Copp-Kakko I might actually like to see that line. Very responsible defensively Good size But who knows what you’d get offensively. Still many options This would require splitting both top lines but maybe best top-9 is CK-Zib-LaFreniere Panarin-Strome-Vatrano Goodrow-Copp-Kakko Id give that a look Edited April 14, 2022 by RangersIn7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 Regarding my previous post You could also use Chytil on that 3rd line and run Goodrow or Copp as a Swiss Army Knife Great teams tend to have a piece like that and employ it in that way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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