Is it Time to Think Big?

[josh]

1 hour ago, G1000 said:

 

Oh no - I'm not saying add a rental. I'm saying it's time to go real big. 

 

You can't.

Any contract means no Strome for the future.

Even with Strome gone, I dont see how you make a "big" acquisition. The big contract name you see floated is Chychrun, and I want nothing to do with the next OEL.

 

Biggest would be getting a player with an additional year remaining on his contract, at a huge cap discount - Toews, Miller, Kane

You can add a Pavelski, Brendan's brother or Hertl rental on to that

Combined, those are "big"

[4EverRangerFrank]

1 hour ago, Valriera said:

This team may look good now but has never been through a real playoff series, let alone a push to the 2nd and 3rd rounds, and you need to lose there before thinking big. 

I read this and instantly thought about expansion team Vegas...

 

With all caution tossed aside and no wind, I agree with the gist of other posters that we should take a serious swing at the fence IF we remain on this upward trend as the second half of the season plays out.

[Phil]

56 minutes ago, Cash or Czech said:

Go for Hertl. Run Zibanejad-Strome-Hertl as your top 3 centers. See what happens.

 

Honestly, I've got zero interest in Hertl unless he's replacing Strome (and I hate the idea). I think they need the big playoff performer here. Giroux. Pavelski. Patrick Kane?

[Ozzy]

51 minutes ago, Keirik said:

We have space this year yes. We have under 10m right now for next offseason while still needing to reup Strome and .Kakko, replace Geo, figure out what to do with Rooney, Hajek, and Gauthier.  I don’t think there is much space to add anything but a rental. Even if you moved both Chytil and Nemeth it’s still incredibly tight just keeping the roster intact (except a backup G that isn’t as expensive) without the additions. 
 

    Let’s say we managed to convince Strome to take 5m for 3 years and bridged Kakko at 3m. That leaves under 2m for the rest, or a tad under 7m if you dumped Chytil and Nemeth without adding a contract. 
 

 

 

I'd love to take a shot at it, but Keith's right, I think.  We'd have to stick to rentals, because Strome is going to be a phenom here.  The guy gets better with every passing week.  No to mention the re-upping of Kakko and the others. 

 

If we could nail down a rental 3C and possibly a depth, big game winger rental, that can play a solid 2 way game....I think that could do us some serious justice for the playoffs.

[Keirik]

4 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Honestly, I've got zero interest in Hertl unless he's replacing Strome (and I hate the idea). I think they need the big playoff performer here. Giroux. Pavelski. Patrick Kane?

I’m not that interested in Hertl either but in all fairness he has been good in the playoffs as well.  42 points in 62 playoff games with 24 goals ain’t too shabby.  That’s one less  goal than Giroux has in 80+ playoff games. 

[josh]

I guess big names I'd consider - Horvat has been mentioned. Another interesting target I'd entertain is Scheifele, who could potentially get Duchened out of Winnipeg with PLD, Perfetti.

[Phil]

7 minutes ago, Keirik said:

I’m not that interested in Hertl either but in all fairness he has been good in the playoffs as well.  42 points in 62 playoff games with 24 goals ain’t too shabby.  That’s one less  goal than Giroux has in 80+ playoff games. 

 

I guess, yeah — I'm just not that interested. I feel like if you're gonna go for broke, go for broke. Hertl feels like the "worst" option out of all the ones we think will be available.

[Cash or Czech]

37 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Honestly, I've got zero interest in Hertl unless he's replacing Strome (and I hate the idea). I think they need the big playoff performer here. Giroux. Pavelski. Patrick Kane?

Why not Toews? Or both? Get a discount if we take two?

[LindG1000]

24 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

 

I'd love to take a shot at it, but Keith's right, I think.  We'd have to stick to rentals, because Strome is going to be a phenom here.  The guy gets better with every passing week.  No to mention the re-upping of Kakko and the others. 

 

If we could nail down a rental 3C and possibly a depth, big game winger rental, that can play a solid 2 way game....I think that could do us some serious justice for the playoffs.

 

I'd venture a guess we have the assets to swing Kane at 75% retention and Pavelski or Giroux for the playoff run and still make 2022-23 work without issue so long as Chytil goes in one of those two deals and Nemeth goes sometime between now and puck drop in 2022-23.

 

Strome's ability to stay with the Rangers hinges entirely on him not going over 5.5 - that doesn't change much since the Rangers can't/won't commit to more anyway. 

 

Here - throwing around a 2022 roster if we do exactly that. HF won't let me do a half-retention on Kane (so add 2.625M from the remaining cap space) - that's within 120K or so of working just fine. Doubly so when we consider that Kakko and Blais aren't getting big raises. Longer term, that's 12.5M to work out Lafreniere, Barron, Miller, Jones in 2022-23 (we probably can't keep Kane) 

 

 

[LindG1000]

Look - if at the end of the day there's a way to go into the playoffs with a top six of Kreider-Zib-Kakko / Panarin-Strome-Kane and have Joe fuckin Pavelski on the third line, I'm doing it. Right fuckin now. And no other team in playoff contention could afford to do one of those moves, I'd think, let alone both.

[Ozzy]

2 minutes ago, G1000 said:

 

I'd venture a guess we have the assets to swing Kane at 75% retention and Pavelski or Giroux for the playoff run and still make 2022-23 work without issue so long as Chytil goes in one of those two deals and Nemeth goes sometime between now and puck drop in 2022-23.

 

Strome's ability to stay with the Rangers hinges entirely on him not going over 5.5 - that doesn't change much since the Rangers can't/won't commit to more anyway. 

 

Here - throwing around a 2022 roster if we do exactly that. HF won't let me do a half-retention on Kane (so add 2.625M from the remaining cap space) - that's within 120K or so of working just fine. Doubly so when we consider that Kakko and Blais aren't getting big raises. Longer term, that's 12.5M to work out Lafreniere, Barron, Miller, Jones in 2022-23 (we probably can't keep Kane) 

 

 

 

That's some solid research, G Man.  I'm far and away no cap expert, but it looks from how you've slotted it, that it may just work out. 

We may even move Georgiev as well, which could free up some extra space.  I just don't wanna lose anyone to "go for it" for just one year.  I'd like to see the window on this team open for the next 5 years at least, but if they can swing it without denting the car, why not?

[LindG1000]

Just now, Ozzy said:

 

That's some solid research, G Man.  I'm far and away no cap expert, but it looks from how you've slotted it, that it may just work out. 

We may even move Georgiev as well, which could free up some extra space.  I just don't wanna lose anyone to "go for it" for just one year.  I'd like to see the window on this team open for the next 5 years at least, but if they can swing it without denting the car, why not?

I don't think you can safely move Georgiev with both COVID and Igor's delicate groin as a factor.  But yes - this offseason he'd be dealt for assets before arbitration.

 

As for losing anyone - we can afford to deal Chytil - that much is clear. I think Robertson too - my "mockup" trade for Kane is 1st, 3rd, Chytil, Robertson, with a 3rd one year later coming back. Arizona as an intermediary getting the Blues 2nd and Nemeth to basically launder the cap (and before I hear Arizona doesn't need Nemeth - they're going to sell off enough to go 20m under the floor this season; they do in fact need to take salary). For Pavelski, it's the next years 1st and like...Pajuniemi or Henriksson. 

 

Not etched in stone, of course - all approximate - but none of this qualifies as sacrificing the window in my book. 

[Ozzy]

12 minutes ago, G1000 said:

I don't think you can safely move Georgiev with both COVID and Igor's delicate groin as a factor.  But yes - this offseason he'd be dealt for assets before arbitration.

 

As for losing anyone - we can afford to deal Chytil - that much is clear. I think Robertson too - my "mockup" trade for Kane is 1st, 3rd, Chytil, Robertson, with a 3rd one year later coming back. Arizona as an intermediary getting the Blues 2nd and Nemeth to basically launder the cap (and before I hear Arizona doesn't need Nemeth - they're going to sell off enough to go 20m under the floor this season; they do in fact need to take salary). For Pavelski, it's the next years 1st and like...Pajuniemi or Henriksson. 

 

Not etched in stone, of course - all approximate - but none of this qualifies as sacrificing the window in my book. 

 

We really do have some solid assets.  I hate dealing off guys like Robertson, but if you can land a Kane.  I guess we'll see what Dr. Drury has up his sleeve in the coming weeks...but that's some solid work, man! 

 

Thanks for the blueprint! 

[Flynn]

Dom Lushisshyzyuzuyn has the Rangers at #18 in his rankings at present.. The really smart guys don't see this as a winning formula yet. 

 

Fuck em...  If Drury is going to start dealing, go big. If you are gonna be a bear, be a fucking Grizzly.  

 

 

[LindG1000]

11 minutes ago, Flynn said:

Dom Lushisshyzyuzuyn has the Rangers at #18 in his rankings at present.. The really smart guys don't see this as a winning formula yet. 

 

Fuck em...  If Drury is going to start dealing, go big. If you are gonna be a bear, be a fucking Grizzly.  

 

 

Did he put out new rankings since  the 17th? I find it hard to believe he dropped the Rangers 10 spots based on our games since the 17th. 

[Flynn]

as of 1/2/22

 

Being a slave to analytics and not using ones eyes as a metric is a fools errand.  

 

Edit- the team snapshot doesn't include Panarin in the calculation- the guy is in the covid protocol, not prison for the year.. The methodology here leaves much to be desired. 

Edited January 4, 2022 by Flynn

[josh]

1 minute ago, Flynn said:

as of 1/2/22

 

Being a slave to analytics and not using ones eyes as a metric is a fools errand.  

 

Is that the one he removed Panarin for the season?

[Flynn]

 back to the topic at hand.. 

 

GO big game hunting Drury.. 

[Keirik]

I’ll try to just do a bit of math here to get an idea of what we are working with next offseason. 
let’s say Chytil is gone along with his 2.3m cap hit. 
let’s also say Nemeth goes along with his 2.5m 

 

   According to capfriendly, we start 8.7m cap space and add the two above for a total of 13.5m cap space next offseason. 
 

must retentions? Strome, Kakko, Blais 

let’s say 5.5m for Strome to stay (very team friendly)

legs say 3m for Kakko  for a bridge

Blais has arb rights but hurt the year. Was on 1.5m. Let’s keep him at that.

 

  We are at 10m so 3.5m cap space. Let’s say we get another backup a bit cheaper. Say 1.5m. We are left with 2m. Rooney, Gauthier, Hajek? 

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, G1000 said:

I don't think you can safely move Georgiev with both COVID and Igor's delicate groin as a factor.  But yes - this offseason he'd be dealt for assets before arbitration.

 

As for losing anyone - we can afford to deal Chytil - that much is clear. I think Robertson too - my "mockup" trade for Kane is 1st, 3rd, Chytil, Robertson, with a 3rd one year later coming back. Arizona as an intermediary getting the Blues 2nd and Nemeth to basically launder the cap (and before I hear Arizona doesn't need Nemeth - they're going to sell off enough to go 20m under the floor this season; they do in fact need to take salary). For Pavelski, it's the next years 1st and like...Pajuniemi or Henriksson. 

 

Not etched in stone, of course - all approximate - but none of this qualifies as sacrificing the window in my book. 

With how bad some teams Ds are this year, along with injuries, it'd be interesting to see what Nemeth would bring back in trade right this second. I think a desperate team would bite and take his whole salary. 

 

That pesky no trade would likely prevent him from going to Arizona.  But if say Edmonton came asking, or Florida, I think the Rangers could dump him no problem.  

[Valriera]

35 minutes ago, The Dude said:

With how bad some teams Ds are this year, along with injuries, it'd be interesting to see what Nemeth would bring back in trade right this second. I think a desperate team would bite and take his whole salary. 

 

That pesky no trade would likely prevent him from going to Arizona.  But if say Edmonton came asking, or Florida, I think the Rangers could dump him no problem.  

I agree especially because the narrative on our team at least can be that we have a lot of defensive prospects that are borderline nhl ready and we'd rather see them play (mostly true) more than he has been overall not impressive (all true).

[Shesty Cola]

Teams that are legit cup contenders will often go for the mid season rental if they believe they are 1 peice away. 

 

I think with our cap situation it lines up perfectly to go for a medium to big piece rental to compete for the cup.

 

 

1. The case for Claude Giroux:

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.blueshirtbanter.com/platform/amp/2021/12/10/22827131/claude-giroux-is-ideal-trade-deadline-target-for-new-york-rangers-at-nhl-trade-deadline

 

2. The case for JT Miller 

https://thehockeywriters.com/rangers-canucks-trade-targets-miller-schenn/

 

We saw what Laffy is starting to do when he has better linemates next to him. Our single biggest weakness right now is probably at top 6 forward or center type that will give this team depth and unlock more scoring potential.

 

 

 

 

 

[josh]

As long as you aren't mad with lack of production when you get a first line player and stick him on the third line with no PP opportunities 

[LindG1000]

4 hours ago, Keirik said:

I’ll try to just do a bit of math here to get an idea of what we are working with next offseason. 
let’s say Chytil is gone along with his 2.3m cap hit. 
let’s also say Nemeth goes along with his 2.5m 

 

   According to capfriendly, we start 8.7m cap space and add the two above for a total of 13.5m cap space next offseason. 
 

must retentions? Strome, Kakko, Blais 

let’s say 5.5m for Strome to stay (very team friendly)

legs say 3m for Kakko  for a bridge

Blais has arb rights but hurt the year. Was on 1.5m. Let’s keep him at that.

 

  We are at 10m so 3.5m cap space. Let’s say we get another backup a bit cheaper. Say 1.5m. We are left with 2m. Rooney, Gauthier, Hajek? 

 

Just to gut check your math - the cap for next year per CF is still 81.5m; we already know the cap will be 82.5 next season. So add 1M to your end number there. 3M for Rooney, Gauthier, Hajek.

 

As for their contracts - respectively - 1m, don't care, don't care. Neither are important to next season and both can either take their QOs and play for their roster spots in camp or get dealt for mid-round picks.

 

At the end of the day, the only difference between your math and mine is that I got Patrick Kane earmarked for the balance instead of Gaut/Hajek and gave Blais some of Kakko's money. I'm taking that every day of the week.

[The Dude]

2 hours ago, josh said:

As long as you aren't mad with lack of production when you get a first line player and stick him on the third line with no PP opportunities 

Who's your guy though Josh? Throw some names out there. This point you made here is definitely a concern.

 

Can't expect to bring in 1st line talent and expect 1st line production playing 3rd line minutes/role. It sure would be nice to be that deep though.

 

Is Pavelski your guy at this point?