Rangers, Fox Have Preliminary Contract Discussions

[josh]

I think you have to bridge. He’s requested trades (prior to playing in the nhl) and forced his way off another team. Need to stop investing in these whiny, entitled kids. That’s not how this organization works. 

[Sharpshooter]

9 minutes ago, josh said:

I think you have to bridge. He’s requested trades (prior to playing in the nhl) and forced his way off another team. Need to stop investing in these whiny, entitled kids. That’s not how this organization works. 

lol Well, he whined his way onto the Rangers. So, that's alright.

[Long live the King]

Way better to lock him up under 10, than wait.  What is the price after 4 more years of being a Norris finalist and cap increases?  Best course of action is to lock him in under the flat cap and it will look like a steal when the cap starts to go up.

[Sharpshooter]

Yes. I'm rooting hard for the cap to go up nicely over the next couple of years. lol

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

42 minutes ago, Long live the King said:

Way better to lock him up under 10, than wait.  What is the price after 4 more years of being a Norris finalist and cap increases?  Best course of action is to lock him in under the flat cap and it will look like a steal when the cap starts to go up.

Yeah. 7x4 and then 13x8 is much worsen than just giving him the 9-10x8 right away.

They won't save much per year on a bridge deal anyway.

And bridging Fox in case Kakko and Laf breaks out is not really the way to go. If they break out you can just bridge them. Fox is one of the best players in the league at his position. Lock him up asap. Besides, a 9.5m x8 contract for Fox gonna be fucking awesome in 3-4 years when the cap goes up.

[josh]

1 hour ago, Long live the King said:

Way better to lock him up under 10, than wait.  What is the price after 4 more years of being a Norris finalist and cap increases?  Best course of action is to lock him in under the flat cap and it will look like a steal when the cap starts to go up.

I'd be fine paying if earned.

Longterm, with the TV deal, it won't be as bad as taking a huge cap hit the next 3 seasons until the cap has potential to go up higher.

 

I'll add - I agree with your thoughts process, but at 8m, not 10.

Edited October 20, 2021 by josh

[josh]

25 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

Yeah. 7x4 and then 13x8 is much worsen than just giving him the 9-10x8 right away.

They won't save much per year on a bridge deal anyway.

And bridging Fox in case Kakko and Laf breaks out is not really the way to go. If they break out you can just bridge them. Fox is one of the best players in the league at his position. Lock him up asap. Besides, a 9.5m x8 contract for Fox gonna be fucking awesome in 3-4 years when the cap goes up.

I just think they have leverage with him forcing his way here, and that should certainly have an impact on his number.

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

3 minutes ago, josh said:

I just think they have leverage with him forcing his way here, and that should certainly have an impact on his number.

Yeah, he accepts 9/9.5 instead of demanding 11m, thats a big discount.

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

Yeah, he accepts 9/9.5 instead of demanding 11m, thats a big discount.

8 years is the max...Oh wait, ignore me. I read that as 9years, 9.5M. Mah bad.

Edited October 20, 2021 by Pete

[josh]

4 hours ago, Pete said:

8 years is the max...Oh wait, ignore me. I read that as 9years, 9.5M. Mah bad.

I did the same.

i still don’t see 9 as a discount. 

[Pete]

6 minutes ago, josh said:

i still don’t see 9 as a discount. 

Even when lesser players are getting $8...and $9.5?

[Keirik]

I still don’t see why we need to bend over backwards again for a player that wanted to be here in the first place just because he’s extremely good. So what? Bridge him until the cap rises and it’s necessary. I don’t care what idiotic gm gave out dumb contracts previously. D is important. However, and big however. Winning teams in todays nhl aren’t around a D player being your best player. He cannot contractually surpass our best offensive players. It just rarely works that way. I don’t want to lose a Kakko or an Alf because we had to rush and pay Fox who is a pass first guy the tippy top salary to save 1 or 2 million when the cap rises. Be a smart gm here. How many cups does Crosby have?  D wasn’t why he had 3 to be honest. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves es here boys. 

[Pete]

It's never a bad idea to pay a player what they're worth during the prime of their career when they've showed who they are.

You don't low-ball and bridge Fox. You low-ball and bridge Shesterkin (whoops too late), Lafreniere, Kakko, Miller, whomever comes after them. Not the reigning Norris winner.

Not unless he wants a bridge to set up a bigger payday later. 

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

21 minutes ago, Pete said:

It's never a bad idea to pay a player what they're worth during the prime of their career when they've showed who they are.

You don't low-ball and bridge Fox. You low-ball and bridge Shesterkin (whoops too late), Lafreniere, Kakko, Miller, whomever comes after them. Not the reigning Norris winner.

Not unless he wants a bridge to set up a bigger payday later. 

Yeah, lock Fox up asap.

Its either a 3-4 year deal worth 7-8(?) mill, then he gets a 8 years x12-13 mill contract as a 27-28 y old. All of a sudden paying a 35 y old 13 mill a year.

Or 8 years x 9-10m now that takes him to 32. In 3-4 years when the cap goes up (and he would have to sign a new contract if he's bridged) he'll be locked in for 9-10m for his prime years. That's a really good deal.

What's the upside with the bridge here really? They save a couple mill on the cap for the next 3-4 years? Do we really wanna take this risk to save a couple mill?

Yes he only wanted to play in New York, but things can change. Lets say they never make a SC run the next 4 years. Panarin's contract is up, Mika is old, Kreider is gone, Kakko and Laf never becomes the stars we hoped for. I could see a world where 28 year old Adam Fox goes to UFA to cash in big time or goes to a contender.

Its just a risk not worth taking. Adam Fox is not the players we try to save a mill or two on. If he accepts anything under 10 mill thats a discount anyway.

[shestYORKin]

Drury literally negotiating with the kid that’s going to have his job someday. Just for fun Fox should submit his requests in Russian. 

[Long live the King]

10 hours ago, Keirik said:

I still don’t see why we need to bend over backwards again for a player that wanted to be here in the first place just because he’s extremely good. So what? Bridge him until the cap rises and it’s necessary. I don’t care what idiotic gm gave out dumb contracts previously. D is important. However, and big however. Winning teams in todays nhl aren’t around a D player being your best player. He cannot contractually surpass our best offensive players. It just rarely works that way. I don’t want to lose a Kakko or an Alf because we had to rush and pay Fox who is a pass first guy the tippy top salary to save 1 or 2 million when the cap rises. Be a smart gm here. How many cups does Crosby have?  D wasn’t why he had 3 to be honest. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves es here boys. 

How many playoff series wins do McDavid/Draisaitl or Matthews/Marner have?  This isn't "bending over backwards for a player that wanted to be here".  This is paying market value for the Norris trophy winner.  

We have a whole thread about how the org treated Krav like a piece of shit2, now we want them to low-ball Fox.  Will that make Fox continue to want to be here?

[Long live the King]

Oh by the way, Nurse just got $9.25 x 8 from Edmonton.

[Morphinity 2.0]

Edmonton had to pay the "Edmonton tax" for Nurse though.

[Long live the King]

no they didn't.  he was a RFA.  they could have bridge him.  

[Phil]

Quote

I don’t anticipate salary arbitration or an offer sheet coming into play for real but it’s nevertheless a fact that both are items in Fox’s toolbox if for whatever reason talks on an extension hit a wall.

So, what’s a fair deal?

Let’s start with the aforementioned Makar, who signed a six-year, $54-million deal on July 24, his $9-million AAV honestly coming below what I thought it might end up although the term being two years short of the max might have had something to do with it.

Quote

Given some recent deals for high-end D, I would imagine Fox and Keator would want the AAV to start with a 9 on a long-term deal although the Rangers could get in lower on the AAV if they go the bridge route. But that would just be punting the ball down the road to when Fox’s number would be even higher.

Makar’s deal, no doubt, looms large in these talks, as would Miro Heiskanen (8 x $8.45 million AAV) and Quinn Hughes (6 x $7.85 million AAV).

And even though they weren’t second contracts, you can’t discount recent deals signed by Charlie McAvoy (8 x $9.5 million AAV), Darnell Nurse (8 x $9.25 million AAV), Zach Werenski (6 x $9.58 million AAV), Dougie Hamilton (7 x $9 million AAV) and Seth Jones (8 x $9.5 million AAV) because as Norris Trophy winner, Fox is already in elite company regardless of his experience.

Again, I would imagine any discussion of a long-term deal starts with a nine in front of the AAV from the player’s perspective.

https://theathletic.com/2902688/2021/10/21/lebrun-rangers-and-devils-already-eyeing-extensions-for-adam-fox-and-jack-hughes/?source=emp_shared_article

[Kevin]

2 hours ago, Phil said:

Again, I would imagine any discussion of a long-term deal starts with a nine in front of the AAV from the player’s perspective.

And rightfully so.  He's definitely earning it the way he plays.

[Morphinity 2.0]

2 hours ago, Phil said:

https://theathletic.com/2902688/2021/10/21/lebrun-rangers-and-devils-already-eyeing-extensions-for-adam-fox-and-jack-hughes/?source=emp_shared_article

If I'm Fox, I look at that list of players, I look at the Norris in my trophy cabinet, and I say, "The number starts with a 10."

[Ozzy]

5 minutes ago, Morphinity said:

If I'm Fox, I look at that list of players, I look at the Norris in my trophy cabinet, and I say, "The number starts with a 10."

Bo Derek? 

[Keirik]

3 hours ago, Long live the King said:

How many playoff series wins do McDavid/Draisaitl or Matthews/Marner have?  This isn't "bending over backwards for a player that wanted to be here".  This is paying market value for the Norris trophy winner.  

We have a whole thread about how the org treated Krav like a piece of shit2, now we want them to low-ball Fox.  Will that make Fox continue to want to be here?

I’m not sure how and where you are getting any connection to Kravtsov and Fox. Huge reach lol.  I’m also not following a connection to playoff wins between anyone and Fox?  I literally said handsomely bridge him. Not low ball or offer anything of that sort. 
your post makes no sense and seems to only serve to be argumentative for the sake of being argumentative. Cool, you think they should pay him market with the idea that market now might be lower than market later . That’s one strategy. I’m just in the boat that handing out 8 year deals to max money with the idea that it might save 1-2 million 4 years from now is a gamble on a team that has two other very high ceiling players on it in Kakko and Alf, 11.6 m until 2026 in Panarin, 8.5m until 2030 , Trouba (who by the way signed a market value 8m contract that we can’t wait to get rid of), and Kreider. 
   Id rather see if the possibility of handsomely bridging to try and set it up to when Krieder and Trouba will be gone so we can see by that point exactly where we are in terms of Kakko, Alf, Fox, Shesterkin, etc. 

[Long live the King]

46 minutes ago, Keirik said:

I’m not sure how and where you are getting any connection to Kravtsov and Fox. Huge reach lol.  I’m also not following a connection to playoff wins between anyone and Fox?  I literally said handsomely bridge him. Not low ball or offer anything of that sort. 
your post makes no sense and seems to only serve to be argumentative for the sake of being argumentative. Cool, you think they should pay him market with the idea that market now might be lower than market later . That’s one strategy. I’m just in the boat that handing out 8 year deals to max money with the idea that it might save 1-2 million 4 years from now is a gamble on a team that has two other very high ceiling players on it in Kakko and Alf, 11.6 m until 2026 in Panarin, 8.5m until 2030 , Trouba (who by the way signed a market value 8m contract that we can’t wait to get rid of), and Kreider. 
   Id rather see if the possibility of handsomely bridging to try and set it up to when Krieder and Trouba will be gone so we can see by that point exactly where we are in terms of Kakko, Alf, Fox, Shesterkin, etc. 

First point is: Great, Fox wanted to come here.  Doesn't mean you even attempt to nickel and dime him or abuse his desire to play her to save a buck.

Not following the connection to playoff wins and Fox? You word for word said, "Winning teams in todays nhl aren’t around a D player being your best player. He cannot contractually surpass our best offensive players."  Those teams spent boat loads of money on the top offensive players in the game and haven't won anything.  So yea, D is important.

When I say pay him market value, and you say that's "bend[ing] over backwards", the obvious alternative is low balling him.  Market value is in the $9 million range per year.  Bridge or no bridge.  He won the Norris trophy.  Were not paying more now and hoping the production increases.