Target Christian Dvorak

[Pete]

Agreed. But I think the fact they were in as deep as they were with Danault, and the fact Eichel won't go away says everything about the front office's vision re: contention. Load-bearing centers are absolutely critical, and they'll sacrifice at wing (hi, Buch) to pay them if need be. If Chytil is a wing by then, he may fall victim to the same outcome.

 

Being out on Danault, to me, means that for that same contract they would rather have Strome.

[josh]

Being out on Danault, to me, means that for that same contract they would rather have Strome.

 

That's a leap.

[Pete]

That's a leap.

 

Say more.

[josh]

I think it indicates they dont want that contract, for either player. It's not like they extended Strome.

If they wanted Strome over Danault for that contract, they wouldn't have pursued Danault - he just got too expensive... much like the anticipated bump in salary for Strome.

[Phil]

Being out on Danault, to me, means that for that same contract they would rather have Strome.

 

Maybe, or that they don't actually want that contract for either player, like Josh said. They probably have a limit they want to stick to and won't break it for anyone.

[Pete]

I think it indicates they dont want that contract, for either player. It's not like they extended Strome.

If they wanted Strome over Danault for that contract, they wouldn't have pursued Danault - he just got too expensive... much like the anticipated bump in salary for Strome.

 

Or maybe they didn't want Danault at that number, or they'd have signed him and traded Strome...That was my thinking on saying they preferred Strome, knowing he's getting that in his next contract.

 

I was imagining they wanted Danault at a smaller ticket.

[ThirtyONE]

Or maybe they didn't want Danault at that number, or they'd have signed him and traded Strome...That was my thinking on saying they preferred Strome, knowing he's getting that in his next contract.

 

I was imagining they wanted Danault at a smaller ticket.

 

From what I read, they saw Danault as a 3rd liner, not a second liner and therefore they didn't pursue.

[Pete]

From what I read, they saw Danault as a 3rd liner, not a second liner and therefore they didn't pursue.

Makes sense, but begs the question... If Danault is a 3C, what's Dvorak?

[BrooksBurner]

Makes sense, but begs the question... If Danault is a 3C, what's Dvorak?

 

A better version of a 25 year old Strome w/o Panarin.

[ThirtyONE]

Makes sense, but begs the question... If Danault is a 3C, what's Dvorak?

 

A 3rd liner because you wouldn't have to move Strome. But personally I think he's capable of doing what Strome does, and perhaps more well rounded.

[TwoMinutesForNothing]

Then what was Goodrow paid for?

[BrooksBurner]

Then what was Goodrow paid for?

 

Probably to be a 3W who can take draws, or possibly a 3C after Strome is gone and Chytil moves up

[Pete]

Probably to be a 3W who can take draws, or possibly a 3C after Strome is gone and Chytil moves up

This is more your wish, less of a reasonable expectation.

 

Chytil needs to show he can do anything you'd expect from a 2C before this is a real discussion.

[Pete]

A 3rd liner because you wouldn't have to move Strome. But personally I think he's capable of doing what Strome does, and perhaps more well rounded.

I don't watch enough Coyotes games to speak on what Dvorak can do, but I just think this is another case of assuming you can slot a player in with Panarin and they'll automatically produce.

 

I've really never seen a fan base so ready to move on from a 65-70 point 2C, though.

[Long live the King]

I don't watch enough Coyotes games to speak on what Dvorak can do, but I just think this is another case of assuming you can slot a player in with Panarin and they'll automatically produce.

 

I've really never seen a fan base so ready to move on from a 65-70 point 2C, though.

 

Not about wanting to move Strome, but that potential $2 million cap savings is need for Laf, Fox, Zib, etc.

[Pete]

Not about wanting to move Strome, but that potential $2 million cap savings is need for Laf, Fox, Zib, etc.

$2M, after next season, is just not enough to worry.

 

Like I said, gotta be really careful with 2C here because you're replacing what's working with an unknown.

 

This isn't a Buch situation where you're likely paying him double (thinking Buch comes in over $6M in NY, not $5.8, coming off $3.25) for a career year and there are 2-3 player waiting to take his spot, who you've seen play in NY.

 

This is replacing Strome with a wildcard rather than give him $1.5M ish in a raise, after next season.

 

If you need cash, you move Kreider or Trouba, there are players ready to take those lineup spots and roles. Today, that's not true of Strome. I wish Chytil would do it, just doesn't seem likely.

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

I don't watch enough Coyotes games to speak on what Dvorak can do, but I just think this is another case of assuming you can slot a player in with Panarin and they'll automatically produce.

 

I've really never seen a fan base so ready to move on from a 65-70 point 2C, though.

 

If Strome is a "65-70 point 2C" (never scored more than 18 goals, 59 points in a season), then Chytil is 40-45 point 3C that's played with DiGisuppe instead of Panarin and no PP time.

 

And its been repeated many times. Having a 60-70 point 2C is good, but having a 2C that dont kill penalties, is not really good defensively and does not win draws is not ideal. That's the problem here. And when Mika is the 1C its a little problematic having a soft vanilla 2C aswell.

 

If you need cash, you move Kreider or Trouba, there are players ready to take those lineup spots and roles. Today, that's not true of Strome. I wish Chytil would do it, just doesn't seem likely.

 

I thought they both had NMC's?

[Pete]

If Strome is a "65-70 point 2C" (never scored more than 18 goals, 59 points in a season), then Chytil is 40-45 point 3C that's played with DiGisuppe instead of Panarin and no PP time.

 

And its been repeated many times. Having a 60-70 point 2C is good, but having a 2C that dont kill penalties, is not really good defensively and does not win draws is not ideal. That's the problem here. And when Mika is the 1C its a little problematic having a soft vanilla 2C aswell.

So we'll replace him with Chytil who's worse defensively and in the dot?

 

Chytil plays where he plays and doesn't get PP because he's hasn't played well enough to take Strome's spot. When he does, we can talk about if he should.

 

I'm not doing the whole "played with Panarin" dance. That Narrative has been dismantled multiple times, in many ways.

 

I thought they both had NMC's?

 

Doesn't mean you can't trade them.

[ThirtyONE]

It’s not that I want to move on from Strome but if you can find a guy who can play a similar role while also costing less, it’s a smart move. If Kakko and Krav break out this year and you also have to sign Fox. Plus Mika. You’re gonna have to find money somewhere.

 

Even if you can cut Kreider loose - not sure that’s even possible - it’ll be a tight fit.

[josh]

If Strome is a "65-70 point 2C" (never scored more than 18 goals, 59 points in a season), then Chytil is 40-45 point 3C that's played with DiGisuppe instead of Panarin and no PP time.

 

And its been repeated many times. Having a 60-70 point 2C is good, but having a 2C that dont kill penalties, is not really good defensively and does not win draws is not ideal. That's the problem here. And when Mika is the 1C its a little problematic having a soft vanilla 2C aswell.

 

 

Like you mention, you can't put that all on Strome. It's the combo of Mika, Strome and Chytil not being hard to play against, winning draws, playing physical hockey.

 

Zibanejad can check a lot of those boxes when he's on his game.

In the last 2 seasons, Zibanejad and Strome have finished 6th and 15th in points among centers. Strome 1pt behind Crosby.

Zibanejad was 7th in PK time during those 2 seasons. Strome was actually 40th among centers, which is quite a bit of time. Again, the problem is these guys arent consistent enough in doing it.

 

Who knows, maybe the system really helps, and the addition of some hardnosed wingers adds the necessary muscle and physicality needed.

[BrooksBurner]

So we'll replace him with Chytil who's worse defensively and in the dot?

 

Chytil plays where he plays and doesn't get PP because he's hasn't played well enough to take Strome's spot. When he does, we can talk about if he should.

 

I'm not doing the whole "played with Panarin" dance. That Narrative has been dismantled multiple times, in many ways.

 

 

 

Doesn't mean you can't trade them.

 

That's a misnomer. Strome earning the ice time does not mean Chytil hasn't earned more ice time than he gets. It just means Chytil is being blocked by a better player. Pretty much the same thing with Buch blocking one of Kakko or Kravtsov, except more pronounced because Chytil has shown more than both those guys. They traded Buch because they can't afford him long term. It'll likely be the same here with Strome. Now it's about finding a guy who has at least a good chance to match Strome's production with a top 5 player in the world.

 

I think Chytil is capable. I think Dvorak is capable. It will come down to which C is out there or in house who Drury has the most confidence in to replace an unaffordable Strome.

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

So we'll replace him with Chytil who's worse defensively and in the dot?

 

Chytil plays where he plays and doesn't get PP because he's hasn't played well enough to take Strome's spot. When he does, we can talk about if he should.

 

I'm not doing the whole "played with Panarin" dance. That Narrative has been dismantled multiple times, in many ways.

 

No, we're talking about replacing him with Dvorak in this scenario. Maybe they lose ~10 points a year, but if its for a better allround player its a win for the team.

 

And the "Panarin narrative" has not been dismantled. Im not saying everything Strome has done is because of him, but when you play with a guy like Panarin you'll get a lot of "free points" through the season, thats the point. If Strome is a 60-70 point guy with Panarin, he's a 50-60 point guy without him (A sample size of 10 games is not enough to say otherwise). If anything just look at his points total before he ever was on a team with Panarin. (33p in 63 games for the Rangers before Panarin was signed too).

 

Doesn't mean you can't trade them.

 

If they dont want to (and they won't) you can't.

[Pete]

It’s not that I want to move on from Strome but if you can find a guy who can play a similar role while also costing less, it’s a smart move. If Kakko and Krav break out this year and you also have to sign Fox. Plus Mika. You’re gonna have to find money somewhere.

 

Even if you can cut Kreider loose - not sure that’s even possible - it’ll be a tight fit.

Gotcha.

 

I'm just very wary of the thinking that 50 point players will become 70 point players "in NY". It pretty much never happens, which is why I wouldn't bet on Dvorak, and when it does I don't want away quickly, like Strome.

[Pete]

No, we're talking about replacing him with Dvorak in this scenario. Maybe they lose ~10 points a year, but if its for a better allround player its a win for the team.

 

And the "Panarin narrative" has not been dismantled. Im not saying everything Strome has done is because of him, but when you play with a guy like Panarin you'll get a lot of "free points" through the season, thats the point. If Strome is a 60-70 point guy with Panarin, he's a 50-60 point guy without him (A sample size of 10 games is not enough to say otherwise). If anything just look at his points total before he ever was on a team with Panarin. (33p in 63 games for the Rangers before Panarin was signed too).

 

 

 

If they dont want to (and they won't) you can't.

All those points around Strome have been addressed so I'm not going to repeat myself.

 

I'm also not convinced Dvorak is a better all around player because he does some things better and other things maybe not as well. That's break even to me. How much of Dvorak have you seen to say he's a better player?

 

Regarding trading guys, their NMCs become limited NTCs. Staal waived an NMC to go to Detroit. This shit happens all the time.

[LindG1000]

I think if you bring in Dvorak, it's as a 3c with a 2c "trial". If he can replace Strome, problem solved. If not, he's a perfectly good mid-six player at a rate that roughly connects with his output.