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Posted

I said this:

 

It?s eminently possible this year in the NHL is more valuable as a learning experience for him than spending the year in Hartford.

It?s also possible the opposite is true.

We?ll probably never know, so it?s a pretty pointless discussion.

 

Then you said this:

 

We can still make an educated guess.

 

A young player having success is always better than not having success. He wasn't having success here, and it's a fairly good bet he'd be more successful playing against lesser competition.

 

Now, maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're trying to say but sure reads as if it is "the AHL would be better for him than the NHL".

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Posted
I said this:

 

 

 

Then you said this:

 

 

 

Now, maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're trying to say but sure reads as if it is "the AHL would be better for him than the NHL".

 

Maybe we're not fully reading each other's posts.

 

Yes, "the AHL would have been better for him this year" does not mean that being in the NHL wrecked him for the future.

 

Again, which one of my posts says anything other than "he should have been in the AHL this year"? Which ones say "This will screw him up down the line"?

 

It's just crazy to me that there's people who preach putting young players in a position to succeed, then see a young player fail over and over and say "Welp, he's gotta learn!"

Posted
Maybe we're not fully reading each other's posts.

 

Yes, "the AHL would have been better for him this year" does not mean that being in the NHL wrecked him for the future.

 

Again, which one of my posts says anything other than "he should have been in the AHL this year"? Which ones say "This will screw him up down the line"?

 

It's just crazy to me that there's people who preach putting young players in a position to succeed, then see a young player fail over and over and say "Welp, he's gotta learn!"

 

I don't think you've said it's going to ruin him. I think you've said the AHL would be better for him this year.

The only thing I'm saying, is that it's not really possible to say with any degree of certainty that playing with Hartford this year would leave him better (or worse) off than he is now after spending the year in the NHL.

Posted
I don't think you've said it's going to ruin him. I think you've said the AHL would be better for him this year.

The only thing I'm saying, is that it's not really possible to say with any degree of certainty that playing with Hartford this year would leave him better (or worse) off than he is now after spending the year in the NHL.

 

Yea, but that's like saying I can't say for certain that water is wet unless I touch it.

 

Again, we're thrrowing common practice out the window here. Young players stuggle all the time, go down, and come back stronger. Happened with Kreider, happened with Chytil. Even Stepan was going to get sent down his rookie year and there were injuries so he stayed in the NHL on the 4th line.

 

But let's say your right and he didn't need to go to the NHL...at no point did Quinn ever move him out of a role he was consistently failing in. Never once did he say "Watch a few games from the press box and come back and tell us what you learned.

 

He just kept trotting the kid out there as he failed over and over, and looked visibly miserable. In my mind, there is no excuse for that.

Posted
Yea, but that's like saying I can't say for certain that water is wet unless I touch it.

 

Again, we're thrrowing common practice out the window here. Young players stuggle all the time, go down, and come back stronger. Happened with Kreider, happened with Chytil. Even Stepan was going to get sent down his rookie year and there were injuries so he stayed in the NHL on the 4th line.

 

But let's say your right and he didn't need to go to the NHL...at no point did Quinn ever move him out of a role he was consistently failing in. Never once did he say "Watch a few games from the press box and come back and tell us what you learned.

 

He just kept trotting the kid out there as he failed over and over, and looked visibly miserable. In my mind, there is no excuse for that.

 

But this is the main thing. You're judging only what you see for a couple hours a week. You have no idea what they are discussing or working on in practice, the film room, etc.

Posted
But this is the main thing. You're judging only what you see for a couple hours a week. You have no idea what they are discussing or working on in practice, the film room, etc.
No.

 

I'm also going by the Brendan Smith interview, the game show comments about how he couldn't wait to go home, etc.

 

I mean I get what you're saying but I don't honestly believe he was completely happy and only looked miserable during games. I'm not saying it's impossible just that I'm not buying it.

Posted
Yea, but that's like saying I can't say for certain that water is wet unless I touch it.

No it fucking isn’t Pete :rofl:

There are loads of now excellent players in the NHL who had a rough time as an 18 yo. These guys are actual, real life proof that what you’re saying here has no basis in fact.

 

Now, I do agree that whether Kakko would’ve been better off with Hartford is a legitimate question. But it certainly isn’t an undeniable fact that he would be.

Posted
No.

 

I'm also going by the Brendan Smith interview, the game show comments about how he couldn't wait to go home, etc.

 

I mean I get what you're saying but I don't honestly believe he was completely happy and only looked miserable during games. I'm not saying it's impossible just that I'm not buying it.

 

Okay, but how does sending him to Hartford help with homesickness?

 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

Posted
No it fucking isn?t Pete :rofl:

There are loads of now excellent players in the NHL who had a rough time as an 18 yo. These guys are actual, real life proof that what you?re saying here has no basis in fact.

 

Now, I do agree that whether Kakko would?ve been better off with Hartford is a legitimate question. But it certainly isn?t an undeniable fact that he would be.

I'm still waiting for you to stop dodging the fact that when young players struggle, more often than not they go to the AHL and come back better. I've given a list of players that this happened to, and there's no reason it couldn't have happened with Kakko.

 

To put it simply, going to the AHL never hurt anybody.

Posted
But this presumes that you (a gen x? American) know what's going on inside the head of a Gen Z teenager raised by Millenials in Finnland without ever interacting with him.

 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

Maybe all the quotes about how he's keeping to mostly to himself, he's really hard on himself, etc?

 

I mean this is now kind of crossed into the land of the absurd so, I've made my point I'm not going to keep beating it to death, we're not going to agree on this.

Posted
I'm still waiting for you to stop dodging the fact that when young players struggle, more often than not they go to the AHL and come back better. I've given a list of players that this happened to, and there's no reason it couldn't have happened with Kakko.

 

To put it simply, going to the AHL never hurt anybody.

 

We’re not talking about the AHL hurting him.

We’re trying to get you to concede there’s a possibility his year in the NHL could turn out to be good for him in the long run.

 

I’m also not dodging anything. There are thousands of examples of the AHL being good for kids who aren’t quite ready. At the same time, it’s an indisputable fact that many players who struggled as 18 year olds developed into great players. You seem unwilling to address this. I wonder why that is.

Posted
We’re not talking about the AHL hurting him.

We’re trying to get you to concede there’s a possibility his year in the NHL could turn out to be good for him in the long run.

 

I’m also not dodging anything. There are thousands of examples of the AHL being good for kids who aren’t quite ready. At the same time, it’s an indisputable fact that many players who struggled as 18 year olds developed into great players. You seem unwilling to address this. I wonder why that is.

 

Gravesy, you're the only looking into the crystal ball here, not me.

 

As an 18 year old, Kakko was not an NHL player. He had some of the worst, if not the worst stats among skaters. That's indisputable. It's stats.

 

IMO, he had no business in the NHL. I never have tried to argue about what the future holds for him. You're the one talking about the future. I'm the one talking about how I think the team should have handled him. When an 18 y.o. struggles mightily in the NHL, he traditionally gets sent to the AHL for development.

 

Any other sidebar argument I might have dipped into, I have quickly tried to come back from.

 

Your argument? "Well, maybe it'll help him." OK, and maybe he's Nolan Patrick.

Posted

Maybe.

But you’re still not willing to acknowledge the fact he would be far from the first player to struggle in his first year yet develop into a great NHL player.

Posted
Maybe.

But you?re still not willing to acknowledge the fact he would be far from the first player to struggle in his first year yet develop into a great NHL player.

I don't get what the point of that would be? To make you feel better? It's like you're having your own discussion against something that was never said.

 

Yes, other players have struggled as rookies and went on to be great NHL players. Show me any post where I said otherwise, or claimed that they wrecked him for the future?

 

It's also why he struggles that's a big issue, his skating isn't NHL grade. And that's been covered and not worth rehashing.

Posted

Ok. Can we agree on the following.

You think Kakko should have been in the AHL this year. I think that’s a fair point.

That being said, I think there’s a good chance this year will come in handy for him down the road, and there are no guarantees being in the AHL would be “better”.

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Posted
Ok. Can we agree on the following.

You think Kakko should have been in the AHL this year. I think that?s a fair point.

That being said, I think there?s a good chance this year will come in handy for him down the road, and there are no guarantees being in the AHL would be ?better?.

We are aligned.
Posted
Maybe all the quotes about how he's keeping to mostly to himself, he's really hard on himself, etc?

 

I mean this is now kind of crossed into the land of the absurd so, I've made my point I'm not going to keep beating it to death, we're not going to agree on this.

 

You might as well. What the hell else you got to do?

  • Like 1
Posted
[/b]

 

You might as well. What the hell else you got to do?

I'm not the one who brought this back up. ;)

 

And true, it's not shocking that people will be spending more time on the internet. Just cuz there's no hockey doesn't mean we stop talking about hockey.

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