josh Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 I don't think you can deny that a health Karlsson significantly changed that team. We've discussed before the importance of bringing in a capable top pair defender, and how that moves everyone into the spots they should be playing. Same would happen on offense. We are expecting guys to play above their ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravesy Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 A couple top-end players completely changes the outlook. Forward + a defenseman, bumps everyone down in the pecking order, adds production, taking off pressure of youngsters while assisting a boost in production among vets. Ottawa went from a cup contender to a lottery pick after Karlsson got hurt. A couple of top end players would make this team a playoff contender. Even so, it still requires patience. To actually contend again a lot would need to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 A couple of top end players would make this team a playoff contender. Even so, it still requires patience. To actually contend again a lot would need to change. Guys playing up to their contracts. Imagine is Hayes, Zucc, Zib, Kreider, Spo... Skjei, Smith, Staal, Shat... played anything close to what is expected out of them, on a regular basis. For now, we have to hope Quinn stops the regression of the play of some of these guys, hope to add something in the offseason that could change the fortunes of this team moving forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravesy Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 Guys playing up to their contracts. Imagine is Hayes, Zucc, Zib, Kreider, Spo... Skjei, Smith, Staal, Shat... played anything close to what is expected out of them, on a regular basis. For now, we have to hope Quinn stops the regression of the play of some of these guys, hope to add something in the offseason that could change the fortunes of this team moving forward. But that's the thing. These guys are middling players. Some of them are ok players, some of them are poor. They're not playing significantly worse than whats expected of them. At least, not what I'm expecting of them. I couldn't believe it when people were talking about this team maybe pushing for a playoff spot this season. It's one of the worst rosters in the league. We're not contending as long as these guys make up the bulk of our roster in my humble opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 I wonder what they're saying about patience in Buffalo, Arizona, Edmonton... Seems to me like you're most likely to become a perennial loser when doing a full rebuild than a perennial contender. The difference between us and them, in my opinion, is that when we come close to contending, after building with youth, we'll be able to find the requisite veteran that actually wants to be here. Those teams have a hard time attracting the right free agents where we shouldn't have the same problem. Similar to Toronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunny Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 I agree to some degree, but, we don't have Matthews. We don't even have a Marner. That's not NYR's fault, but it's a fact none the less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodka Drunkenski Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 I agree to some degree, but, we don't have Matthews. We don't even have a Marner. That's not NYR's fault, but it's a fact none the less. ...yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew a Penalty Posted October 22, 2018 Author Share Posted October 22, 2018 I agree to some degree, but, we don't have Matthews. We don't even have a Marner. That's not NYR's fault, but it's a fact none the less. Gotta get those players somehow. That's why you sell off and take advantage of being bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 ...yet oh, next season when Kravtsov comes over! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 Those three teams have been awful for 5+ years. Not 1+. Wonder what Toronto has to say, Winnipeg...That said they are 2 sides of the barbell. Many teams fall in middle like Calgary, Colorado, etc. Toronto is coming of a stretch of 1 playoff appearance in 11 years between 05/06 and 15/16. 6 picks in the top 8 during that time. Knocked out in the first round each of the last 2 years. Haven't won the cup in 50 years. This is the 19th year of existence for the Winnipeg/Atlanta franchise and they have 3 playoff appearances. They've had 13 top 10 picks. They were both terrible for a long time, and still haven't won anything. I think patience is probably wearing pretty thin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew a Penalty Posted October 22, 2018 Author Share Posted October 22, 2018 I think it's important to consider that it took different managerial groups to pull both Winnipeg and Toronto out of those rebuilds. I don't know what that says specifically, but I think it speaks to the incompetence of the GMs that were in charge beforehand. Granted, Cheveldayoff has benefited from moves he didn't make i.e. Byfuglien and Wheeler, but Winnipeg has undoubtedly gotten better under him despite his reluctance to trade for assets. I've got some faith in Gorton right now. I think he understands how rebuilds work. He just can't get caught behaving like his predecessor before this team is ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 I think it's important to consider that it took different managerial groups to pull both Winnipeg and Toronto out of those rebuilds. I don't know what that says specifically, but I think it speaks to the incompetence of the GMs that were in charge beforehand. Granted, Cheveldayoff has benefited from moves he didn't make i.e. Byfuglien and Wheeler, but Winnipeg has undoubtedly gotten better under him despite his reluctance to trade for assets. I've got some faith in Gorton right now. I think he understands how rebuilds work. He just can't get caught behaving like his predecessor before this team is ready.Thanks for explaining context. And you'd have to be willfully ignorant to think fans aren't more excited by the next 5 years than the past 10, which is really all you can ask for in sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodka Drunkenski Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 oh, next season when Kravtsov comes over! I meant trading for Marner, since Dubas....nevermind, forget it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew a Penalty Posted October 22, 2018 Author Share Posted October 22, 2018 Thanks for explaining context. And you'd have to be willfully ignorant to think fans aren't more excited by the next 5 years than the past 10, which is really all you can ask for in sports. I'd definitely say I'm excited. I haven't felt anything like this since McDonagh, Stepan, Hagelin, and Kreider were all moving up between 2010-2012. I imagine it was the same with Dubinsky, Callahan, Staal, etc. beforehand. We should be even more excited now given that talent of our current prospects should hopefully be greater than those mentioned, but also because there's potential to get even better players. People also always forget how Edmonton and all those other bottom feeders proceeded after they got their top picks. Edmonton has sucked, but not for lack of effort. Rebuilding can just be done poorly more often than not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrowningPI Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 I still find it hard to believe that the Rangers have only 1.3 Mil in cap space available and not one skater that is considered in the top 100 in the league. For a maxed out salary cap, this is a horrendous product for their fans and especially the season ticket holders. This rebuild, retool, whatever, does not get a passing grade in my book. Sent from my SM-N900T using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puck Head Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 In the last 10 or 11 years, seems like every cup winner except Boston had been bad enough to get generational players. Capitals Penguins Chicago Looking like teams such as Toronto, Winnipeg, etc are the next generation. I?m not sure what the formula is, but i do know this new NHL is built around too talent vs the grind and balance of 15-20 years ago Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew a Penalty Posted October 22, 2018 Author Share Posted October 22, 2018 And how exactly would you suggest removing the salaries of said players? Also never mind the fact that most of those contracts predate the rebuild and the Rangers have only two deals beyond 2021... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravesy Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 I still find it hard to believe that the Rangers have only 1.3 Mil in cap space available and not one skater that is considered in the top 100 in the league. For a maxed out salary cap, this is a horrendous product for their fans and especially the season ticket holders. This rebuild, retool, whatever, does not get a passing grade in my book. Sent from my SM-N900T using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk The rebuild just started. If the roster is full of overpaid shit this time next year it?s time to start worrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 I'd definitely say I'm excited. I haven't felt anything like this since McDonagh, Stepan, Hagelin, and Kreider were all moving up between 2010-2012. I imagine it was the same with Dubinsky, Callahan, Staal, etc. beforehand. We should be even more excited now given that talent of our current prospects should hopefully be greater than those mentioned, but also because there's potential to get even better players. People also always forget how Edmonton and all those other bottom feeders proceeded after they got their top picks. Edmonton has sucked, but not for lack of effort. Rebuilding can just be done poorly more often than not.I meant Toronto and Winnipeg fans haha. I'm not quite there with this team. Seems the typical over-rating Rangers fans do... Hajek for Norris! But he's probably Hjarlmessononsons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giacomin Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 The rebuild just started. If the roster is full of overpaid shit this time next year it’s time to start worrying. Yes, exactly. Which is why you start worrying now because it can take a year or longer to unload an overpaid dmen to a desperate injury riddled contender or misguided GM. Just dump Shatty and Staal with retention at the sight of any taker. Belesky and McQuaid will be gone. Zuc probably gone. Whoever ends up on the 4th line this year are all gone. Guys like Spoons and Names, even Vesey and Hayes got show me/trade me contracts. Only 1 or 2 may stick longer than 2 years. Those contracts were probably given to them instead of cheaper prospects because mgmt likely found their trade value too low to get near NHL ready prospects. Cap space doesn't roll over so resign guys like them short term, and get some value later in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodka Drunkenski Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 I still find it hard to believe that the Rangers have only 1.3 Mil in cap space available and not one skater that is considered in the top 100 in the league. For a maxed out salary cap, this is a horrendous product for their fans and especially the season ticket holders. This rebuild, retool, whatever, does not get a passing grade in my book. Sent from my SM-N900T using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk And what do you suggest could?ve been done differently when they decided it was time to rebuild? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Yes, exactly. Which is why you start worrying now because it can take a year or longer to unload an overpaid dmen to a desperate injury riddled contender or misguided GM. Just dump Shatty and Staal with retention at the sight of any taker. Belesky and McQuaid will be gone. Zuc probably gone. Whoever ends up on the 4th line this year are all gone. Guys like Spoons and Names, even Vesey and Hayes got show me/trade me contracts. Only 1 or 2 may stick longer than 2 years. Those contracts were probably given to them instead of cheaper prospects because mgmt likely found their trade value too low to get near NHL ready prospects. Cap space doesn't roll over so resign guys like them short term, and get some value later in return.I can't envision a scenario where moving Names, Spooner and Vesey moves the needle making this team any better I just don't. Sent from my [device_name] using http://Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giacomin Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 I meant Toronto and Winnipeg fans haha. I'm not quite there with this team. Seems the typical over-rating Rangers fans do... Hajek for Norris! But he's probably Hjarlmessononsons. Hey hey, I'm on the H train, but right now content one is in HHartford. No one is thinking Norris, how about solid top 4? However, much of this year's excitement is to see the potential of kids who actually have potential. I was ready for Chytil to impress and hoping Pionk would improve defensively. But I did not expect Howden and Hajek to look like NHL ready Top 25 prospects and they do. Or for Shesty to continue to be among the top goalies not in the NHL. Just add the other Russian(s) and a real high pick this year and it is reminiscent of the only time a group of rooks impressed like this. They were Amonte, Weight, Nemchinov and Richter. And they all looked the part as 21 y/o rookies. The H's are younger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giacomin Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 I think it's important to consider that it took different managerial groups to pull both Winnipeg and Toronto out of those rebuilds. I don't know what that says specifically, but I think it speaks to the incompetence of the GMs that were in charge beforehand. Granted, Cheveldayoff has benefited from moves he didn't make i.e. Byfuglien and Wheeler, but Winnipeg has undoubtedly gotten better under him despite his reluctance to trade for assets. I've got some faith in Gorton right now. I think he understands how rebuilds work. He just can't get caught behaving like his predecessor before this team is ready. Both good posts and points. Chevy was right to be stingy with his picks and shoulda held off on Statsny too, but i get the move. Shanny got out ahead of a total teardown with no competition, right before the draft rules changed. He got that monolithic mgmt group to hand over the autonomy to a bunch of hockey guys, made his own luck and cheated the cap ta boot. Every situation is different, but what zona, buff and even edm lacked is a core of solid winning guys and role players throughout the lineup. Balance is a big part. So is a plan. Edm can't field an AHL D, no goalie, plus a mess at all levels of mgmt and compete. Zona is not drafting well or making trades that add more chances at top line players. Buff is the home for rosters littered with below average players and key holes that never get filled, though that is slowly turning. This league is about talent, accumulating young talent at every position. That is what the Jets and Nash have done so well. They draft well. They have very good middle six guys and depth elsewhere. Connor is bound to succeed more quickly. Boston kept key top guys and winners and drafted well. It feels like our path is little Jets mixed with the Bruins approach w/o Bergeron and Marchand at our disposal. A homerun this draft, a few A prospects hit their potential, a couple of good trades and a key top line FA and we are competing gentlemen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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